7-11 is an average start for the Bulls

[clonetrooper264]

I don't think Ben Gordon would have made a huge difference. I'd say we win that Milwaukee game and the Miami game from before the West Coast trip. That's 9-9. On par with what we've had for the past few years when we made the playoffs. However, having BG would not have made a difference against the Lakers, Nuggets, or Blazers. Those are top level Western Conference teams. Ben Gordon is good, but not good enough to lead us past all of those teams. Maybe the point differentials would have been smaller, but that's about it. It would be easier to bear how the Bulls have been playing if we had BG, but he's not here, so we have to deal with it. (Kirk and Salmons, anytime you want to step it up, feel free)

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

All of those teams had Ben Gordon, who would come off to a slow start, and then get going around December. Last time I checked, this team doesn't have him.

Last year Ben Gordon averaged 20 PPG at around his usual efficiency over the first 18 games. We won one more game than we have this year.

That team was entirely different though. We had a crap Noah and Deng and no Miller or Salmons. This team has a lot more going for it. That comparison isn't fair. I love noah now but he looked like a bum at this point last year. Now he looks like one of the best young defensive centers in the league. That has made almost all the difference defensively.

 

[engies]

houheffna wrote:

If you believe it was the right decision, then we should get to the 2nd round this year. Things should get better, because Noah is better, we've added Gibson, we're focusing on defense...this team is better, according to you and some others posting. According to our logic, This is just a lull due to the injuries, but Kirk will be back soon.

I have said that they are going to tread water for the year. Offensively, I thought they would be fine...I have never seen Hinrich play this badly for this long so no, I didn't anticipate that. But I have never said that they would win a first round series. With or without Gordon. I also said that all of the players including Gordon were expendable. The only exception I made was Rose. I had no idea that Noah would play at this level either. Whatever could have happened 2 years ago does not matter at all to me. I am thinking about now, and in the here and now it is no different from the past. Nobody here can convince me that the Bulls would be 11-7 with Ben Gordon. He doesn't make that big a difference. No one here can convince me that they would beat Cleveland, Orlando, Boston, Atlanta or Miami in a series with Ben Gordon or without him. They have enough talent to improve on their current record and make things even by the end of the year. But they will be the same team...mediocre and far from a contender. I never said Gibson was a difference maker. That is my point, this team hasn't had a franchise changing player as of yet...maybe Rose, but most likely, they need to strike gold in 2010 to get a franchise player. That is what matters.

What do you need? Somebody to hit an open jumper...someone to shoot straight. You can get that for a lot less than 12mil or even 9 mil a year. Rose is the one who should have the ball and take the shots in the clutch if he is going to be "the guy". And then the focus should be on a frontcourt player...that is top priority. Getting a scorer in the frontcourt is more important than Gordon or anything else that may be missed.

Really? Never seen Hinrich play this bad for so long? Did you miss the 07-08 season. Do you still not have memories of Kirk getting taken to school by that 12th man rookie on the Pacers (He's last name was Deiner I think)

As far as Rose has to be shooting a clutch shot to be the man, not totally true. There were alot of great players who just couldn't do it in crunch time. Karl Malone for one. Scottie Pippen hit a few but he was well known for not having good 4th quarters (and he is my favorite player of all time). Thus why Kukoc shot the clutch shots instead of Pippen.

Bottom line is Gordon could've been at least another option here and very helpful in the clutch situations, which he had shown he was one of the leagues best in during his 5 years in Chicago. Gordon didn't need to be our best player overall, or even 2nd best player overall. He could've been our 3rd best player next to Rose and whoever we could sign in 2010, while trading Kirk for cap room. But it seems Bulls management, drones, and a few educated fans like you (who I just happen to disagree with) thought its basically better to replace Gordon with Hinrich. I think Bosh would rather play with Rose and Gordon, than Rose and Hinrich, because its another scoring option, along with Deng and Salmons (if Salmons stayed of course).

I don't think for a second anyone here would be saying we would beat Celtics, Hawks, Magic and Cavs if we had Gordon instead of Kirk. But we certainly would have a better record this season, and then we would have a better shot at having a 2010 free agent thinking this is a team on the rise to sign with. If I was Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Wade, 'Bron etc etc I wouldn't be looking at what we have now and be too impressed and encouraged to sign. Hell I think Miami is much more attractive destination. If we had Gordon instead of Kirk, we certainly would look much more attractive to free agents

 

[Fred]

clonetrooper264 wrote:

I don't think Ben Gordon would have made a huge difference. I'd say we win that Milwaukee game and the Miami game from before the West Coast trip. That's 9-9. On par with what we've had for the past few years when we made the playoffs. However, having BG would not have made a difference against the Lakers, Nuggets, or Blazers. Those are top level Western Conference teams. Ben Gordon is good, but not good enough to lead us past all of those teams. Maybe the point differentials would have been smaller, but that's about it. It would be easier to bear how the Bulls have been playing if we had BG, but he's not here, so we have to deal with it. (Kirk and Salmons, anytime you want to step it up, feel free)

I would agree with most of this. I would add the first game in Toronto, where we managed to score 0 field goals for the last 9 minutes. That's BG time, and I'd also add the first Denver game at home. You never know. I just believe a Gordon-Rose-Bosh-Noah-Deng/Salmons team wins a title, or at least wins the East in 2 or 3 years. A team comprised of that starting 5 was possible, but you needed to keep that first BG contract on the table and you needed to move Hinrich. I don't see it happening now. Salmons has really disappointed me this year...he won't be good in 2 years.

 

[houheffna]

We don't have Gordon....so what is the big deal? We didn't lose an allstar!

Gordon has not lead the Bulls anywhere spectacular...he didn't do much while he was here...and no bringing Bosh to go along with Gordon and Rose will not win you a championship. Bosh can disappear at times...totally disappear. Then we are stuck. Gordon left and signed for a lot of money...good for him. The franchise is not permanently scarred. If he is a 3rd option, he is very replaceable. And I have said before, what he brings to the table, can be replaced, for a fraction of the cost that the Pistons put on the table. Gordon isn't important because he isn't here. He is in Detroit, so he can backup an over the hill shooting guard.

Do you think the Bulls have been so attractive over the last couple of years? No. No more than they are now. And when the Bulls were attractive to top players, no one was clamoring for Gordon. I know Kobe wasn't. If people want to come to Chicago, losing Gordon will not make a significant difference. I have said that Bosh is a second guy not a first guy, he doesn't have that mentality. He needs a number 1 guy. The Bulls NEVER had that, so if he didn't want to come here now, he probably didnt want to be here in the past either.

 

[??? ??????]

The Bulls got the top free agent in 2006 to come to them fwiw. Unfortunately, the Bulls got the top free agent in 2006 to come to them.

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

And I have said before, what he brings to the table, can be replaced, for a fraction of the cost that the Pistons put on the table.

You mean like J. Pargo? What 20 PPG scorer can you bring in a fraction of the cost? What 3-point shooter can you bring in who will still lead your team in free throws? Where do we have to be ranked offensively before you admit you're wrong?

 

[Diddy1122]

Fred wrote:

houheffna wrote:

And I have said before, what he brings to the table, can be replaced, for a fraction of the cost that the Pistons put on the table.

You mean like J. Pargo? What 20 PPG scorer can you bring in a fraction of the cost? What 3-point shooter can you bring in who will still lead your team in free throws? Where do we have to be ranked offensively before you admit you're wrong?

But BG's not on the team anymore, so who cares right? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Fred]

Diddy1122 wrote:

Fred wrote:

houheffna wrote:

And I have said before, what he brings to the table, can be replaced, for a fraction of the cost that the Pistons put on the table.

You mean like J. Pargo? What 20 PPG scorer can you bring in a fraction of the cost? What 3-point shooter can you bring in who will still lead your team in free throws? Where do we have to be ranked offensively before you admit you're wrong?

But BG's not on the team anymore, so who cares right? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You're right. We need to concentrate on signing Lebron and then finding a good 3-point shooter to spread the floor for him.

 

[TheStig]

Fred wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

Fred wrote:

houheffna wrote:

And I have said before, what he brings to the table, can be replaced, for a fraction of the cost that the Pistons put on the table.

You mean like J. Pargo? What 20 PPG scorer can you bring in a fraction of the cost? What 3-point shooter can you bring in who will still lead your team in free throws? Where do we have to be ranked offensively before you admit you're wrong?

But BG's not on the team anymore, so who cares right? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You're right. We need to concentrate on signing Lebron and then finding a good 3-point shooter to spread the floor for him.

Hey, maybe we can trade for that Gordon guy, wonder what it would take to get him?

 

[houheffna]

I will admit you are right when they are not good enough to make the playoffs...hell, I will admit you are right if this team cannot improve itself. But what would you be right about? All of these players can go with the exception of Rose, and maybe Noah. I have said that from the beginning. I don't have to see Hinrich here, and if he was gone, and they struggled defensively, I wouldn't be pining for Hinrich. Because I don't pine for expendable talent. That's just me, been watching the NBA for too long. I know better, Gordon is not a keeper, he is expendable. I don't know what the future holds, I know they have had worse starts than this and have looked worse than this and won damn near 50 games a couple of times. I cannot believe people are panicking this early, when they have done worse in the past....WITH BEN GORDON!

 

[JimmyBulls]

Because Ben Gordon came to the Bulls, always took them far in the playoffs, and had one great NBA Finals series where he grabbed his nuts everytime he scored.[/green]

 

[jsain360]

houheffna wrote:

I will admit you are right when they are not good enough to make the playoffs...hell, I will admit you are right if this team cannot improve itself. But what would you be right about? All of these players can go with the exception of Rose, and maybe Noah. I have said that from the beginning. I don't have to see Hinrich here, and if he was gone, and they struggled defensively, I wouldn't be pining for Hinrich. Because I don't pine for expendable talent. That's just me, been watching the NBA for too long. I know better, Gordon is not a keeper, he is expendable. I don't know what the future holds, I know they have had worse starts than this and have looked worse than this and won damn near 50 games a couple of times. I cannot believe people are panicking this early, when they have done worse in the past....WITH BEN GORDON!

Agreed, they need to play with a sense of urgency, tired of seeing them blah-zay-blah through games, I can't wait to help Kirk bag his bags when he gets traded, I got a $1.50 on his Bus ticket