A new look

[pinkizdead]

wasn't it hinrich's job to bring it up the floor and look for his teammates? The entire team took a dip that season. part of it was hinrich's inability to play point. we all wanted a new pg that season.

 

[houheffna]

wasn't it hinrich's job to bring it up the floor and look for his teammates? The entire team took a dip that season. part of it was hinrich's inability to play point. we all wanted a new pg that season.

Speak for yourself, I wanted a new backcourt. I stated in 2007 that those players had reached their primes as players. And it wasn't nearly good enough. The guy everyone claims as the "Best Bull since Jordan" is one dimensional and shouldn't be first or second option on a championship team. Hinrich, Deng and Gordon were at peak value. They needed to go...That said, Paxson was in love with his players. I wasn't.

And no, Hinrich was not to blame for Gordon's suckage early in the season. Gordon was to blame for Gordon's suckage...

You are half right, the whole team was bad, which furthers the inaccuracy of Hinrich being the primary blame for Skiles leaving.

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

Because KC doesn't think he's the primary reason doesn't make it so. Again, Skiles was fired because the team didn't win. Hinrich's collapse in 07-08 was the primary reason for that team not winning. This is backed by statistical fact. KC, on our show during that season, said Luol Deng was the most disappointing player on that team. The stats don't back up that assertion. Kirk Hinrich suffered the greatest percentage collapse from his 06-07 season to 07-08, so please don't tell me the idea is groundless. I have the stats to back me up. Of course all the players deserve blame for that travesty, and the coaching staff. But IMO, it's clear Captain Glue deserved the lion's share, and of course he got none of it.

Wish you would have showed this much love for KC's opinion when he was writing that the Bulls should resign Gordon.

Ummmmm...Gordon stats leading up to Skiles' leaving...

38% from the field
34% from 3pt....

You are right, Gordon really did his part to keep Skiles around...

1. When exactly was that the argument? Did I not just state in the previous post: "Of course all the players deserve blame for that travesty, and the coaching staff. But IMO, it's clear Captain Glue deserved the lion's share, and of course he got none of it."
But thanks for proving my argument: "Kirk Hinrich suffered the greatest percentage collapse from his 06-07 season to 07-08, so please don't tell me the idea is groundless. I have the stats to back me up."

2. Guess who was considered the only offensive threat by an unnamed NBA coach at the end of that month:
From Sam Smith, November 2008:
An unnamed NBA coach: “We trap [Ben] Gordon on the pick-and-roll. There doesn’t seem anyone else who can beat you now. I don’t really have an explanation.”

As I said at the time when guard after guard peeled off of Kirk to double on BG, when you're shooting 20% from the 3-point line (as Kirk was that last week of Nov. of 08), you're going to hurt your teammates. Here's a video from last year that illustrates what happens because the Captain couldn't hit a consistent 3. It happened about 300 times in November of 08, except that defender was running out to BG. In fairness to Kirk, this was one of the few times I saw anyone leave Kirk to double Deng last year, although it happened frequently last year to Rose:
http://blog.chicagobullseye.com/2010/02/05/kirksdefenderleavingtodoubleflv.aspx

 

[houheffna]

Gordon started the season bad...first game of the season Gordon was 8/25 from the field, 3/10 from 3pt. Hinrich scored 14pts, 2/4 from outside in 25minutes and fouled out. I don't think Hinrich can be blamed for Gordon's failures, since you wouldn't credit Hinrich for any of Gordon's success.

I don't buy the "everybody guarded Gordon" stuff, plenty of times he played poorly in his career on his own, he didn't need any help. That includes the games leading up to Skiles leaving...

As far as Gordon's constantly being doubled...I don't think so...

That is up there with Wade criticizing how Reinsdorf treated "Jordan, Pippen.....and Ben Gordon" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

But it doesn't matter, Dumars has been trying to push Gordon out since February and the Bulls have what seems to be an exciting future. Hinrich is gone to the point of no return. If they can get rid of Deng for a better sf, my plan would be complete. All of them gone, their best days are behind them. But as long as Deng is here, I will root for him to improve and succeed. Just as I did Hinrich and Gordon. That said, Good riddance to those players and the mediocrity that came with them. I am glad to be moving on...

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

Gordon started the season bad...first game of the season Gordon was 8/25 from the field, 3/10 from 3pt.

Funny you didn't mention Gordon's 8 points from the free throw line (8-8), which helped add to his total of 27 points. Of course, Hirich drew no fouls, shot 0 free throws, and committed 6 fouls. I guess the ability to get the line is only important for you when you're defending Kobe Bryant.

Hinrich was top 3 in the league in fouls committed that year for guards, but rarely drew a foul. Gordon almost doubled Hinrich's FTA per FGA that year, a miraculous feat when you consider that Ben took so many 3's, where you rarely get fouled. In other words, BG put the Bulls in the bonus. Hinrich put the opposition in the bonus. But keep telling yourself that Hinrich wasn't the primary problem during that year.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Who cares? He's gone and is someone else's problem now. Why don't we focus on the good that is to come?

 

[houheffna]

Funny you didn't mention Gordon's 8 points from the free throw line (8-8), which helped add to his total of 27 points. Of course, Hirich drew no fouls, shot 0 free throws, and committed 6 fouls. I guess the ability to get the line is only important for you when you're defending Kobe Bryant.

Hinrich was top 3 in the league in fouls committed that year for guards, but rarely drew a foul. Gordon almost doubled Hinrich's FTA per FGA that year, a miraculous feat when you consider that Ben took so many 3's, where you rarely get fouled. In other words, BG put the Bulls in the bonus. Hinrich put the opposition in the bonus. But keep telling yourself that Hinrich wasn't the primary problem during that year.

No problem, I know the truth, and don't mind being objectionable about it. To say Hinrich was the primary reason and not look at Gordon, Deng, Wallace and his lobbying for Skiles' termination with Reinsdorf, is laughable.

Gordon's inefficiency was a key reason that the team suffered early. You keep telling yourself that Gordon is a star, while Dumars quietly tried to trade his contract...good luck with that.

 

[houheffna]

Who cares? He's gone and is someone else's problem now. Why don't we focus on the good that is to come?

You are right man...I just think Bulls fans should know better than to pine for overpaid one-dimensional players. After 6 titles...Lakers fans, Celtic Fans, even Knicks fans don't talk like that. If a player is average, why the heck would you vilify him? He played hard, his coaches and teammates appreciated him, and he did his best. I have no problem with that. A player plays to the best of their ability and give their all, there shouldn't be a problem. Just my opinion.

 

[TheStig]

My problem with Kirk is just that he started a massive decline after getting his deal. Every year he got worse. We signed him to be a major piece of the team not a glue guy. If he were making the mle like steve blake, I'd love to have him off the bench. Though I think Watson may prove to be better in that role offensively.

 

[marines1]

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

 

[houheffna]

WTF?

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Wtf?

the Bulls traded Kirk back to the Wizards? Again? Why wasn't I notified about this?

 

[RoseMVP1]

:thinking:

 

[scottiepippen1994]

houheffna wrote:


Funny you didn't mention Gordon's 8 points from the free throw line (8-8), which helped add to his total of 27 points. Of course, Hirich drew no fouls, shot 0 free throws, and committed 6 fouls. I guess the ability to get the line is only important for you when you're defending Kobe Bryant.

Hinrich was top 3 in the league in fouls committed that year for guards, but rarely drew a foul. Gordon almost doubled Hinrich's FTA per FGA that year, a miraculous feat when you consider that Ben took so many 3's, where you rarely get fouled. In other words, BG put the Bulls in the bonus. Hinrich put the opposition in the bonus. But keep telling yourself that Hinrich wasn't the primary problem during that year.

Sock it to him Fred!!!!
:clap: