Agree or Disagree? Bulls season is Successful.

[cool007]

Okay, regardless of what happens in the next 2 games, in your opinion, is this a successful Bulls' season???

IMO, YES and DEFINITELY YES.

Let's take a look:

Bulls before the season started with not much expectations - Rookie Coach, Rookie PG, Gordon's contract/final year? Hinrich getting injured right before the season starts and TON and I mean TON of question marks with our young bigs and how Noah came out of shape and if Tyrus was going to take that next step etc.

Most of the Bulls fans expected us to win about 37 or 38 games and Maybe fighting for the last playoff spot. Most Bulls fans thought Rose would have a long learning curve and would take him couple of months to adjust and atleast be good enough or will show some flashes here and there but not much expectations.

First couple of months - Total Roller coster. Tyrus started off slowly and people started questioning (did he really work hard in the offseason?), Noah was a hot garbage Poop that no-one wanted to even close by to see it and our frontcourt was a total mess.

Let's fast forward to now:

Bulls won 41 games and more than most expected (I expected best case 45 wins give or take 2 - worst case 38 wins). Most didn't even expect us to be in the playoffs (I personally expected best case 6th seed, worst case barely missing it).

Bulls also fought hard and made it to 7th seed and a match with #2 seed against the defending champ Celtics. Even without KG, they are still pretty darn good and 2nd best team in the East and still possibly 4th best team overall.

Most expected Celtics to win in 4 or 5 if Bulls are lucky to win 1. But the odds changed as soon as Bulls won the game #1.

Anyways, the worst case, this series be over in 6 games and it was the MOST FUN SERIES yet in the playoffs so far - or pretty damn classic for a first round series.

IMO, I consider it a success regardless of what happens from this point on. IMO, Bulls should just play freely and feel like nothing to lose as they weren't expected to be anywhere near where they are.

Thank you for everything - let's build on it and don't want to see the repeat of 07-08 after that phenomenal 06-07 season.

 

[dougthonus]

The hard thing about this season is that if we lose Gordon in the off season, then we can look at the team coming back the same or worse hoping that Rose's improvement and Deng returning makes up for Gordon's loss.

In order to build towards something next year, we need to keep Gordon IMO, and I'm just not sure how likely that is.

 

[cool007]

The way he is playing in the playoffs (although he did have pretty darn good regular season as well), I think JR will be hard pressed to keep him and trade some other pieces.

On the other hand, Rose/Gordon duo seem just a little short of Elite right now. It will be Elite in a year or two once Rose develops even further.

I just hope we can turn Tyrus + Deng (or Salmons) + Expirings + Picks into Bosh/Amare and keep BG.

WOW!!!!!!! That would be the team to reckon with in a couple of years.

 

[Riker]

For a team that didn't have .50 wins for 60+ games in a row, and for a team that wasn't even close to playoff spot 2 months before the end of the season, yes I think this season is extremely successful.

 

[bepp84]

I think that this has been a successful season. I remember when Rose was drafted everybody said that it would take a couple seasons for him to become the player we needed but he came out did from the very beginning which in my eyes makes this a successful season in its self, not to mention were in the playoffs giving the defending champions a run for their money.

As for gordon I hope JR will find a way to resign him. We will take a big blow if Gordon isn't here next year.

 

[PJ Brown]

That's a great question (good thread)! I'm inclined to say yes. I predicted a .500 record and about the 8th seed, so in the sense that the matched my expectations, I'm at least not let down. I'd say the second half push and dramatic playoff series caps it. I didn't expect this level of excitement from this season--if we made it at all, one would safely assume it would be a first-round trouncing. I'd also rate Rose's first year as slightly above my expectations. He won ROTY, is playing meaningful playoff minutes, and fared better than many highly-touted (young) rookie PGs. Without the post-trade push, I'd probably say not successful, for the record, but it happened and here we are.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Very succesful thanks in part to the second greatest losing season in Bulls basketball (07-08) that brought us Rose.

 

[AirP]

Successful, I think not. OK, sure.

This roster minus D.Rose was suppose to be one of the stronger teams in the East last year and underachieved greatly. So just by not underachieving you'd expect this team to do much better in the wins department, and that's without adding the #1 overall draft pick.

Had D'Antoni or another vet coach had come in I think we'd see a better product on the floor right now. I really believe Rose was underutilized this season.

 

[dougthonus]

AirP wrote:

Successful, I think not. OK, sure.

This roster minus D.Rose was suppose to be one of the stronger teams in the East last year and underachieved greatly. So just by not underachieving you'd expect this team to do much better in the wins department, and that's without adding the #1 overall draft pick.

Had D'Antoni or another vet coach had come in I think we'd see a better product on the floor right now. I really believe Rose was underutilized this season.

I think more utilization of Rose would have resulted in a worse record. I also think the problem with pointing at the disappointing team of last year is that team was supposed to have a great post defender in Ben Wallace whom this team didn't have. Wallace wasn't that player which is a large part of the reason that team stunk.

On top of that, this team was supposed to have Luol Deng playing at a high level, and missed him for half the year and had him playing poorly for most of hte time he was here. Same could be said of Hinrich's missed time (though he played well when he played).

So this team wasn't really last year's team of expectations + #1 pick. It was last year's team of disappointment missing 2 of their major pieces for half the season and missing one of the pieces that was supposed to anchor their good version of itself + #1 pick.

I still tend to agree with your take overall though, I don't think this team really killed expectations. Deng was not fit well into the roster early on prior to being hurt, and the Salmons / Miller for Noc / Gooden trade that massively improved our talent is the primary reason this team didn't win 33 games again.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

I think more utilization of Rose would have resulted in a worse record. I also think the problem with pointing at the disappointing team of last year is that team was supposed to have a great post defender in Ben Wallace whom this team didn't have. Wallace wasn't that player which is a large part of the reason that team stunk.

On top of that, this team was supposed to have Luol Deng playing at a high level, and missed him for half the year and had him playing poorly for most of hte time he was here. Same could be said of Hinrich's missed time (though he played well when he played).

So this team wasn't really last year's team of expectations + #1 pick. It was last year's team of disappointment missing 2 of their major pieces for half the season and missing one of the pieces that was supposed to anchor their good version of itself + #1 pick.

I still tend to agree with your take overall though, I don't think this team really killed expectations. Deng was not fit well into the roster early on prior to being hurt, and the Salmons / Miller for Noc / Gooden trade that massively improved our talent is the primary reason this team didn't win 33 games again.

I think more utilization with Rose would have had this team working better together and Rose having more confidence trying to score more. Sure he went into a slump and that would have hurt centering around Rose, but it would have been a nice learning experience to try to figure out what he needs to do for the team to continue being successful at that time, like get other players more involved.

Deng... just because we threw money at him doesn't mean he'll play big. He's really never been a difference maker in the 4th quarter, all he brings is solid defense, good rebounding for a SF a reliable midrange game and the ability to cut and hit lanes well. I'm not really sure what people were expecting from Deng and even more so... what JR was doing giving him as big of a contract as he did. He just isn't a difference maker at the NBA level, he's a solid part, but by no means a difference maker. All I expect from Deng with Rose... solid defender for 35-38 minutes a night, a good rebounder and the beneficiary of a decent amount of open looks from Rose's drives. I really never see Deng being a goto guy.

 

[dougthonus]

I think more utilization with Rose would have had this team working better together and Rose having more confidence trying to score more. Sure he went into a slump and that would have hurt centering around Rose, but it would have been a nice learning experience to try to figure out what he needs to do for the team to continue being successful at that time, like get other players more involved.

I agree that it would have been a good experience and probably would have helped the team long term. Just relative to expectations and wins, I don't think it would have improved anything and instead made things worse. The short term pain for long term gain type thing. I'd have been fine with it.

Deng... just because we threw money at him doesn't mean he'll play big. He's really never been a difference maker in the 4th quarter, all he brings is solid defense, good rebounding for a SF a reliable midrange game and the ability to cut and hit lanes well. I'm not really sure what people were expecting from Deng and even more so... what JR was doing giving him as big of a contract as he did. He just isn't a difference maker at the NBA level, he's a solid part, but by no means a difference maker. All I expect from Deng with Rose... solid defender for 35-38 minutes a night, a good rebounder and the beneficiary of a decent amount of open looks from Rose's drives. I really never see Deng being a goto guy.

I don't ever see Deng being a goto guy either. Our present offense probably isn't well suited for Deng as it really relies a lot on isolation play from all of the wing players, and Deng's not a good isolation player. Still, he was a highly efficient good volume scoring player a couple years ago. If he could be that player again, he'd be a nice 4th option on a good team.

Rose + Gordon + very good big man + healthy Deng + Noah would be a hell of a lineup. Granted who knows if we can keep Gordon, get a very good big man, or if we'll ever see healthy Deng again.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

I don't ever see Deng being a goto guy either. Our present offense probably isn't well suited for Deng as it really relies a lot on isolation play from all of the wing players, and Deng's not a good isolation player. Still, he was a highly efficient good volume scoring player a couple years ago. If he could be that player again, he'd be a nice 4th option on a good team.

Rose + Gordon + very good big man + healthy Deng + Noah would be a hell of a lineup. Granted who knows if we can keep Gordon, get a very good big man, or if we'll ever see healthy Deng again.

Rose + Salmons + very good big man + healthy Deng + Noah would be a hell of an offensive and defensive lineup.

As Rose gets calls and gets better, the need for Gordon to go one on one or bail out the Bulls with his long range game will lessen and with that, the value to his team, especially when it takes playing well on both sides of the ball. Now if Gordon were a 25+ ppg guy each night, sure you can build off that, but one night he's hot, the next he's not and that's just too much of a change to have to endure each night to be a great team.

 

[dougthonus]

Rose + Salmons + very good big man + healthy Deng + Noah would be a hell of an offensive and defensive lineup.

That puts a lot of faith in Salmons (short track record of being good offensively), Deng (not a goto guy as you say), and a player not on our team.

As Rose gets calls and gets better, the need for Gordon to go one on one or bail out the Bulls with his long range game will lessen and with that, the value to his team, especially when it takes playing well on both sides of the ball.

I think Gordon plays the defensive side of the ball much better than most people and the Gordon is a poor defender thing is largely a myth propagated by his poor defensive ability his first year in the league. He's not a great defender, but he's certainly capable and typically puts forth very good effort.

Now if Gordon were a 25+ ppg guy each night, sure you can build off that, but one night he's hot, the next he's not and that's just too much of a change to have to endure each night to be a great team.

If he was a 25+ ppg guy each night then he'd be a future hall of famer and a franchise player worth max money. At $10 million there isn't a scorer in the league better than Ben Gordon that's not on a rookie deal.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

That puts a lot of faith in Salmons (short track record of being good offensively), Deng (not a goto guy as you say), and a player not on our team.

Salmons has progressed offensively, that's usually something you don't just regress as skill wise, as the wear and tear comes so will his regression. I'm still at the point where I'm ready to hand over the franchise to Rose, not Rose and Gordon. This team may not be as efficient with those shots that Gordon no longer takes, but we should be a more consistent team and a better defensive team.

dougthonus wrote:

I think Gordon plays the defensive side of the ball much better than most people and the Gordon is a poor defender thing is largely a myth propagated by his poor defensive ability his first year in the league. He's not a great defender, but he's certainly capable and typically puts forth very good effort.

Not a poor defender like he was at first, but not a good one and his size does allow players to shoot over him easier. Wow, good effort, I'll note that... Nocioni put forth great effort...


dougthonus wrote:

If he was a 25+ ppg guy each night then he'd be a future hall of famer and a franchise player worth max money. At $10 million there isn't a scorer in the league better than Ben Gordon that's not on a rookie deal.

You're right and why? Not because he can't score 25+ a night, because he's not able to do night in and night out. One night he'll have a big game like he can, the next night nothing but a negative. If Gordon just played as a spot up shooter and then just forced shots when he's "hot" he'd be a great starter next to Rose(which he has been at times). But when he decides it's one on one time, nothing else happens because everyone knows he's not passing the ball. If he had some sort of passing mentality and worked on his dribbling under pressure, my god, he may have been a GREAT PG(I think this is where Skiles hurt Gordon by not working on his weakness').

When Gordon's scoring it doesn't matter who's on the court, he's usually getting the ball and putting straight up or creating a little space and taking the shot. This is why I argue over and over and over that he should be a 6th man... and not just a 6th man but one of the top 6th men of all time. Let your starting 5 get use to playing as a team and then when Gordon comes on the court you throw most of the plays out the window and let him go to town... which would also be a great time to rest your better players if Gordon's hot.

Gordon is a game changer from time to time, but it's not enough to incorporate him into the starting team because he does disrupt the offense so much when he gets the ball.

 

[mlewinth]

I think that this season has been a overwhelming success. Fred and I talk about it on our latest show. You probobly didnt hear it, BECAUSE MY F$#$ING COMPUTER DIDN'T SAVE IT!!! ARGH! Whatever, it will be like the "lost" tape, where if found, it will generate millions as a collectors item!

Anywho. I after the dismal season last year and bringing in a rookie pg and coach, I didn't expect much. I simply wanted to make the playoffs and make it to 6. That is going to happen, so no matter what happens next, this season has been a success. I agree with Doug though. I will only be excited if we resign Gordon. This team is going to be in a very very different position next year if BG doesnt come back. If BG does come back, this team can win 50 next year. I feel that at the end of the year we were playing like a 50+ win team. I would love to see that team next year, with Rose a year older.

 

[JimmyBulls]

This season basicly is what it is, I'd be hard pressed to call it a success or failure.

The Bulls are still a team that needs a major frontcourt upgrade if they want me to take them seriously as a frontline contender.

 

[??? ??????]

JimmyBulls wrote:

This season basicly is what it is, I'd be hard pressed to call it a success or failure.

The Bulls are still a team that needs a major frontcourt upgrade if they want me to take them seriously as frontline contender.

The Bulls are purgatory this year, and that will hold true next year if they let Gordon go.

 

[JimmyBulls]

??? ?????? wrote:

JimmyBulls wrote:

This season basicly is what it is, I'd be hard pressed to call it a success or failure.

The Bulls are still a team that needs a major frontcourt upgrade if they want me to take them seriously as frontline contender.

The Bulls are purgatory this year, and that will hold true next year if they let Gordon go.

I agree, that's why i'm won't be mad if the Bulls just let him walk. He has played very well ths series, but I still believe he's a bad fit on this team, and we're a bad fit for him personally. He should sign a one year deal with the Heat and put himself in the best position from a basketball standpoint,and then try to cash in later. He won't be losing much, I think he's only a one big contract guy before he has to settle for the MLE.

 

[Basghetti80]

I am of the opinion that long term we won't have a Rose,Gordon,Deng,very good bigman,Noah starting lineup. Considering that bigman hopefully will be an Amare or Bosh type max player, then Gordon and Deng together probably around $20 million, Rose eventually a near max or max player and that is not feasible. Teams typically have 3 very high paid players with role players surrounding them, not 4 very high paid players. Just too hard to make it work. I see one of these two scenarios:


Rose,Gordon, mid level salary SF, Bosh type bigman, Noah

or

Rose, mid level salary SG, Deng, Bosh type bigman, Noah


Question becomes which one would you rather have?