An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast Sho

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Just listened to June 7's episode of Chicago Bullseye and had quite a laugh. I don't know who the guy was who was railing against what i wrote about the fact that Wilt is the greatest NBA player of all-time but I found it really interesting.

1. I usually don't run to Wilt's stats to say he is the greatest. On one particular post I did but as far as I know that is the only one I ever did that on. I've heard so many people say it so many times I have made certain not to only cite his stats and will never do that again.

2. I am not an old-timer. I happen to realize how easy it can be to get carried away with our big-screen HD plasma tv's in living color (where it's so real it feels like we're actually there at the game and we make the mistake of thinking everything now is greater than ever when in reality Erick Dampier is the 4th best center in the league and guys like Jamaal Magloire and Zydrunas Ilgauskus are making All-Star teams!?) and the old black and white footage from Wilt's days (where the footage is old and kind of choppy and people think everyone who played then couldn't play now).

Were George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt not real Presidents just because they aren't the President right now? Is Barack Obama the greatest President of All-time just because he's the President today?

Are the cars today the greatest cars ever made? Are the classic cars like '56 Thunderbirds and '60 Mustangs not really cars because they were made in another generation?

Are classics like North By Northwest and The Wizard of Oz not real movies just because they didn't come out a minute and a half ago? Do you think Night at the Museum 2 is better than Gone With the Wind? You do if you say Wilt wouldn't dominate in today's NBA.

Just because Wilt and Cousy and Oscar and everyone else from that era aren't playing now doesn't mean they're not great players and that the 12th player on the Centennial High girls JV basketball team is better than them just because they're playing today!

Cousy revolutionized the game of basketball and the point guard position! Without Cousy there would be no Allen Iverson, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Andre Miller or so many other great point guards.

In addition to that, Cousy isn't 5-9." He isn't 5-10" he isn't 5-2" he isn't 5-8." In his playing days Bob Cousy was 6-1" and 175 pounds. How big was John Stockton? 6-1" 170! Okay...you were saying?

(Uh oh Mr. Talk Show Host Man!! Busted!)

The guy on the phone had an excellent point. Should people 50 years from now discount what Jordan and Kobe and great players of our time are doing just because it isn't right here and right now? If that doesn't hush the biggest Chamberlain critic I don't know what will! :)

3. I'll come on your show but only for the right price. How much of a paycheck are we talking about?

4. It's fun to have your own show and to be a talking head. It's okay to be critical of a player or of certain players. But sometimes you've got to ask yourself the question - where was I drafted? How many NBA minutes have I logged? How many times have you lead the league in scoring? How many All-NBA teams have you been named to? How many times have I faced off against Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing and Rony Seikaly and guys like that?

I think sometimes we can be too critical of things (generally speaking) we ourselves could never do any better. Just my dos centavos on that.

No matter what, I respect your opinion just like I respect everyone's opinion.

When it all boils down the players now are great, great players. But they aren't the only great players, because the players from different eras also are great, great players as well and their accomplishments have no right to be discounted or excused away in order to trump up what's going down now.

I don't agree with what you said and something tells me you might not agree with what I said but I respect your opinion and I respect you as a human being so I think we should shake hands and hug this out.

But i just found that interesting. Gave me a good laugh, thanks.

(P.S. If you're still looking for suggestions for the new NBA logo you can put me down for Wilt Chamberlain).
 

houheffna

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Cousy revolutionized the game of basketball and the point guard position! Without Cousy there would be no Allen Iverson, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Andre Miller or so many other great point guards.

There would be no Iverson or Magic if there were no Cousy...you should seriously rethink that. Cousy wasn't even the best PG of his time, Oscar was...the argument could be made that if there was no Nate Archibald or Dave Bing, there would be no Magic, but Cousy? I doubt when Magic was a kid, he wanted to grow up to be a short, slow dude....

You are entitled to your opinion of course, in my opinion, Kareem was definitely a better center than Wilt, and he played against Wilt...and destroyed him.
 
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houheffna wrote:
There would be no Iverson or Magic if there were no Cousy...you should seriously rethink that. Cousy wasn't even the best PG of his time, Oscar was...the argument could be made that if there was no Nate Archibald or Dave Bing, there would be no Magic, but Cousy? I doubt when Magic was a kid, he wanted to grow up to be a short, slow dude....

It's not that...lemme explain what I meant (sorry for the misunderstanding)

Cousy revolutionized the position in that he went beyond the stereotypical textbook fundamental approach. He brought the razzle dazzle into the game. They didn't call this guy The Houdini of the Hardwood for nothing.

No-look passes. Shooting shots backwards and hitting them with big guys all over him. Going between the legs. Cousy invented that stuff! Bob Cousy was doing that stuff 50 years ago!

I would recommend to anyone who doubts these guys to watch the documentaries (NBA at 50 is a good one...ESPN Sports Century, etc.). These guys were great and they transcended the game.

It's just like how there never would have been a Michael Jordan (at least the way we saw him) if there weren't a Connie Hawkins, if there weren't a David Thompson, if there weren't a Julius Erving. There wouldn't be a Shaquille O'Neal the way we've seen him if there weren't a Wilt Chamberlain, if there weren't a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, if there weren't a Hakeem Olajuwon, if there weren't a Patrick Ewing.

At one time everyone played the same way. Then guys like Cousy and Elgin Baylor and Wilt and Dr. J came around and played with a much different, far more entertaining game.

In Mikan's day you weren't supposed to dunk it - it was deemed disrespectful. Then Wilt and Kareem came and Dr. J...guys started throwing it down and as the new guys came they took that style and added their own twist to it and the next thing you know the NBA is the entertaining game it is today.

But that doesn't mean that everything is so perfect about the game now and that anything that happened in the past is inferior or that it wasn't real.

There were advantages and disadvantages then, there are advantages and disadvantages now. There were great players then, there are great players now and there will always be great players.


You are entitled to your opinion of course, in my opinion, Kareem was definitely a better center than Wilt, and he played against Wilt...and destroyed him.[/quote]

Really? I've never seen any evidence of this. I mean, I know Kareem was great and that he came in late in Chamberlain's career and Chamberlain was STILL averaging more rebounds. That's all he evidence I have - the points favor Kareem but the boards favor Wilt, the greatest player of all-time.
 

houheffna

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Rodman averaged more rebounds than Malone, Duncan, Garnett at a certain time in his career...give me your top 3 players out of that four.

Kareem had 6 MVPs, 6 Championships, and the most unstoppable post move in NBA history.
 

Bullsman24

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

man the biggest problem i have with wilt is that he can only win 1 championship in his whole career. sounds like kevin martin...only even worse. he had big names around him, idk, maybe the logo, jerry west. but he couldn't get it done. he had the ball almost the whole time, and he only gets one. he gets to the finals a lot, but he doesn't lose because his team isn't the best, and russell really couldn't guard him that well. he would just get into a mindset of "i need to take a shot now" like kobe. and kobe has lost the lakers some games. right now if the lakers win, i'm not giving finals mvp to bryant, i'm giving it to pau/ariza. they've shown up and played smart.
 

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

Now I have no beef with calling Wilt a great player, because he was. But I can't really see any reason why you would put him above Jordan. Probably the only things Wilt could do better than him are block and rebound, but I credit that to Wilt playing center. Even so, Jordan could still rebound and block shots better than every other guard at some point or another. There's nothing Jordan would not be able to do. Wilt, he couldn't shoot FT's (which probably leads to him not being able to shoot outside of the paint) and only won two championships and of those only won finals MVP once. But hey, Wilt does have a lot of records, like the record for the most free throws missed, in addition to scoring 100 points and getting 55 boards. A center leading the league in assists is pretty cool too, but Michael was just the overall better player and that's why I can't put Wilt over Michael.
 

chi_hawks_23

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Wilt may have the best statistical season ever.....but Jordan (as of today) is the best to every play the game. You wont hear too many people, well versed in the NBA and its history, argue with that.

You can make a case for Wilt.....I just don't think its a very good one.
 

Bullsman24

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

sry, two championships, not one.
 

Fred

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

I think I said that on the podcast, and I was wrong. He did win 2. Does anyone know how many he lost? I know it's at least 4.
 
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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

clonetrooper264 wrote:
There's nothing Jordan would not be able to do.

See, this is another reason why I feel Wilt is the greatest. I'll be careful not to throw his stats at you because I don't want to rely on cliches even though his stats really do speak for themselves. But all I will say is this, and you actually said it - Wilt as a CENTER lead the entire league in assists one year. In his career this guy lead the league in scoring, rebounding, assists and if they kept track of them early on in his career probably lead the league in blocks every year too. Who else has lead the league in at least 4 categories?

"Wilt, he couldn't shoot FT's (which probably leads to him not being able to shoot outside of the paint)"

Wilt was a center. Someone was saying how much greater Slaq is but Shaq is notorious as a bad free-throw shooter as well. So have a bunch of other centers (if there are any great centers with a career ft % of 75 or more that is quite a remarkable feat (i have a feeling that if Olajuwon didn't quite have 75 that he was pretty close!).

Jordan was a guard. For whatever reason its far easier for guards to shoot free throws well as opposed to centers but then again i'm not in the excuse-making business.

These were legitimate points and I thank you for bringing them up.
 

Diddy1122

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

Fred wrote:
I think I said that on the podcast, and I was wrong. He did win 2. Does anyone know how many he lost? I know it's at least 4.

He made it to the Finals 5 times with a record of 2-3. 4 appearnces were with the Lakers. The thing about Wilt & only 2 championships is he really did not have much of a supporting cast until he was with LA. And for the greater portion of his career he was facing the Celtics in the East Finals on a yearly basis. And the Celtics of that era had lots of good players all up & down their roster, where as the Sixers & Warriors really only had Wilt.

Another interesting thing I read about him is that he actually said he was going to retire after his rookie season because of constant double & triple teaming, & the incredible beating he was taking from hard fouls night in & night out. He was like Shaq in this way. So big & strong that all the opposing defender could do was elbow him or shove him or do whatever to make sure he didn't score.
 
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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

Diddy1122 wrote:
He made it to the Finals 5 times with a record of 2-3. 4 appearnces were with the Lakers. The thing about Wilt & only 2 championships is he really did not have much of a supporting cast until he was with LA. And for the greater portion of his career he was facing the Celtics in the East Finals on a yearly basis. And the Celtics of that era had lots of good players all up & down their roster, where as the Sixers & Warriors really only had Wilt.

That really is a good point Diddy.

The question has eternally been, who is better Chamberlain or Russell? You know…on an individual one-on-one arena and area of discussion.

The question ought to be - who was better? Chamberlains TEAMS or Russells TEAMS?

As much as I like and respect the 50’s and 60’s Celtics and don’t wish to dismiss anything they accomplished, Bill Russell played with 357 Hall of Famers. Even the trainer was a first ballot hall of famer. Even the guy who put the cheese on the nachos in the old Boston Garden got into the Hall of Fame. They were a great team that just happened to have a bunch of studs and blue chips and if the players were on opposite teams Chamberlain would be the one with all the rings and not Russell.



Another interesting thing I read about him is that he actually said he was going to retire after his rookie season because of constant double & triple teaming, & the incredible beating he was taking from hard fouls night in & night out. He was like Shaq in this way. So big & strong that all the opposing defender could do was elbow him or shove him or do whatever to make sure he didn't score.[/quote]


I do know that deep into his retirement he was approached by teams more than once about returning from the NBA. Once was in the late 1980's when Wilt was more than 50 years old!

The DaSagana Diop of his time? Balderdash, hogwash, and poppycock!

A glorified Joakim Noah? I don't think anyone's going to want Noah when he's 33. An NBA team wanted Chamberlain when he was more than 50 years old and was retired for more than 10 years!

I'm telling you - this guy was the greatest.
 

houheffna

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Re:An Open Letter to the Chicago Bullseye Podcast

Sam Smith's Top 5

Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Kareem
 

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