Anthony lists teams he'll play for, sort of.

[Rush]

So it's Chicago or New York, unless it's NJ or Houston?Carmelo Anthony's wish list starts with the New York Knicks, but that's not the only trade destination he's targeting.Sources briefed on the state of Anthony's ongoing push to be dealt...

Go to Source For Full Article: Bulls Confidential...

By: Doug Thonus

 

[Lex L.]

That was a well-reasoned piece by Thonus. And he makes several solid points.

I agree with him that trading Noah makes sense for no one.

Honestly, I dont understand why New Jersey doesnt have him already. Chicago is really limited on what it should be offering, which is considerably less than what New Jersey has.

I just think that New Jersey only really needs to worry about having a core of Harris, Anthony, and Lopez. Beyond that, everything is tradeable.

For the Bulls its a little more messy. One of the Bulls major strengths has been their rebounding and Noah is the main guy where thats concerned. Also, playing alongside Noah is one of the things that drew Boozer to the Bulls. Im not saying that they should make decisions based on what Boozer likes but I am saying that the team, as it is constituted, has complimentary pieces that are already entrenched.

 

[houheffna]

That was a well-reasoned piece by Thonus. And he makes several solid points.

I agree with him that trading Noah makes sense for no one.

Honestly, I dont understand why New Jersey doesnt have him already. Chicago is really limited on what it should be offering, which is considerably less than what New Jersey has.

I just think that New Jersey only really needs to worry about having a core of Harris, Anthony, and Lopez. Beyond that, everything is tradeable.

For the Bulls its a little more messy. One of the Bulls major strengths has been their rebounding and Noah is the main guy where thats concerned. Also, playing alongside Noah is one of the things that drew Boozer to the Bulls. Im not saying that they should make decisions based on what Boozer likes but I am saying that the team, as it is constituted, has complimentary pieces that are already entrenched.

I guarantee you Boozer would not complain if he had to play with Carmelo Anthony instead of Noah. It is easier to find rebounds than it is to find 28ppg scoring wing players. The team, as constituted, is not good enough to beat the Miami Heat.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I guarantee you Boozer would not complain if he had to play with Carmelo Anthony instead of Noah. It is easier to find rebounds than it is to find 28ppg scoring wing players. The team, as constituted, is not good enough to beat the Miami Heat.

I actually disagree with you. I think rebounders of Noah's caliber are more rare than players who can put up big numbers in the Pts. part of the boxscore. What the Bulls ideally need is a guy who can play off-the-ball well to complement Derrick Rose and Boozer in the screen-and-roll game. Deng is a pretty decent piece. Maybe not offensively ideal as a guy like Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton (pre-injury), or Michael Redd (pre-injury)... but he has a mid-range jumper that is about automatic if you give him space.

If you trade away Deng and Noah for Anthony, you lose trade leverage, depth, and you lose one quality starter. You also will need to depend on Boozer to cover the middle... and he gets destroyed on the glass by most taller Centers in the league. That is exactly what happened to the Jazz (ranked #1 in the NBA last season in rebound differential) when Okur went down and Millsap and Boozer had to go head on with the Lakers' 3-man rotation of Gasol-Bynum-Odom. Their shots were getting swatted away left and right... and they were demolished under the glass.

Amd who is to say that NJ will give up a lot for Melo? Murphy and Favors was the last offer I saw that they had on the table. Is that better than an offer of Deng-Gibson-Johnson? I don't think so... NJ won't give up anything valuable because then Melo won't agree to a sign-and-trade with them. DEN's best option is to take whatever the Bulls want to give them, or to just seek out a couple other wild-card teams.

The Bulls already have Rose on the perimeter who specilaizes in scoring with the ball in his hands. He and Boozer will make the Bulls one of the best scoring teams. And Boozer and Noah would make the Bulls probably the best rebounding team in the NBA. Thibodeau is going to have them working tail on defense, as well... Why should the Bulls feel inclined to give Noah/depth/trade leverage away? They can always scout young talent, and trade Deng away for solid young prospects in the not-too-distant future. Rose will be one hell of a leader if the organization can manage to mold him into one. Look at Durant in OKC... he's only 21, also... but he carries that franchise... Rose can be the same way. Melo would be great, but for Noah? Big, big sacrifice...

 

[NealKleren]

I look at it like this. Either way both teams will be getting a good piece and both will be losing a good piece. Noah has improved and has done well with this team and I think would go good in Thibs gameplan and everything. If we can give up Deng,taj,two first rounders or 1 first rounder or cash or james johnson for Melo we push it as hard as we can. But if it comes down to getting rid of Noah for Melo,I think you almost have to do it. Melo is a top 5 player in the league and trust me I would like to keep Noah as well but overall its a risk you would have to take. But the thing I would be curious about is if Noah would agree to an extension with the Nuggets if he is traded their since he more than likely would have to since we would of course probably be getting an extension from Melo. Thats one of the things I really dont see people talking about.

 

[houheffna]

I actually disagree with you. I think rebounders of Noah's caliber are more rare than players who can put up big numbers in the Pts. part of the boxscore. What the Bulls ideally need is a guy who can play off-the-ball well to complement Derrick Rose and Boozer in the screen-and-roll game. Deng is a pretty decent piece. Maybe not offensively ideal as a guy like Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton (pre-injury), or Michael Redd (pre-injury)... but he has a mid-range jumper that is about automatic if you give him space.

If you trade away Deng and Noah for Anthony, you lose trade leverage, depth, and you lose one quality starter. You also will need to depend on Boozer to cover the middle... and he gets destroyed on the glass by most taller Centers in the league. That is exactly what happened to the Jazz (ranked #1 in the NBA last season in rebound differential) when Okur went down and Millsap and Boozer had to go head on with the Lakers' 3-man rotation of Gasol-Bynum-Odom. Their shots were getting swatted away left and right... and they were demolished under the glass.

Amd who is to say that NJ will give up a lot for Melo? Murphy and Favors was the last offer I saw that they had on the table. Is that better than an offer of Deng-Gibson-Johnson? I don't think so... NJ won't give up anything valuable because then Melo won't agree to a sign-and-trade with them. DEN's best option is to take whatever the Bulls want to give them, or to just seek out a couple other wild-card teams.

First, Okur didn't "man the middle" defensively anyway, that was not his game. Milsap is better at that than Okur. I don't know about Noah's caliber, he hasn't done anything long enough to develop a rep along those lines. We see his upside, but he will NEVER be better than Carmelo Anthony. By the way, the caliber rebounder you are talking about? Boozer is it...Okur has averaged a little over 7 rebs a game in the last 4 seasons and not even a block a game over his career...I don't think he is doing much as far as manning the middle...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

First, Okur didn't "man the middle" defensively anyway, that was not his game. Milsap is better at that than Okur. I don't know about Noah's caliber, he hasn't done anything long enough to develop a rep along those lines. We see his upside, but he will NEVER be better than Carmelo Anthony. By the way, the caliber rebounder you are talking about? Boozer is it...Okur has averaged a little over 7 rebs a game in the last 4 seasons and not even a block a game over his career...I don't think he is doing much as far as manning the middle...

When Boozer was on the floor with Okur, Okur did guard the C position. With Millsap and Boozer... either way, that is lose-lose. Mehmet has always been a pretty good rebounder. But aside from that point... we can say Melo is better than Noah until we are blue in the face. But it takes more than loading your roster with gubs of talent to win a Championship. Talent helps... but team-work, as cliche as it may sound, is more important. All Melo will really bring is an additional scorer to an already very good offense.

 

[houheffna]

When Boozer was on the floor with Okur, Okur did guard the C position. With Millsap and Boozer... either way, that is lose-lose. Mehmet has always been a pretty good rebounder. But aside from that point... we can say Melo is better than Noah until we are blue in the face. But it takes more than loading your roster with gubs of talent to win a Championship. Talent helps... but team-work, as cliche as it may sound, is more important. All Melo will really bring is an additional scorer to an already very good offense.

Stars trumps teamwork. You get the players to work with the stars. How many teams win titles without a top 10 player? Over the last 25 years, how many won without a top 5 player? That is what it takes to win. The Heat have 2 of the top 5 players in the league right now and for the next 3 years or so most likely. You are not going to beat them because of teamwork. Talent is most important. NBA is a star driven league, simple as that.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Stars trumps teamwork. You get the players to work with the stars. How many teams win titles without a top 10 player? Over the last 25 years, how many won without a top 5 player? That is what it takes to win. The Heat have 2 of the top 5 players in the league right now and for the next 3 years or so most likely. You are not going to beat them because of teamwork. Talent is most important. NBA is a star driven league, simple as that.

I can't really debate that. I'm holding out hope that the Bulls can attain a Noah-Boozer-Anthony-Brewer/Watson-Rose line-up. Even if they struck gold and DEN accepted a Deng-Taj trade... I still don't know if the Bulls would get past LA or Miami... that's why I say the organization should wait it out and hope the tide turns in their favor.

 

[NealKleren]

I agree as well with the wait it out and hope scenario and have said that as well. if this can happen then that will be amazing and I will be one of the happiest people ever if it works out that way for us if we have melo and still keep noah. but if it comes down to the end and we have to give up noah,so be it.

 

[pinkizdead]

i disagree with doug about trading noah not making sense for anyone. There are teams out there that desperately need noah. both 76ers and minny have pieces that denver wants. Also both teams desperately need centers. Love and beasely doesn't really make sense for minny. I could see noah complimenting either of the 2 players. you could easily imagine a trade where we send noah to either team, and they send their pieces over to denver. Obviously we'll have to find a way to trade deng, but i dont imagine that it would be terribly difficult. Deng isn't completely devoid of value.

 

[Lex L.]

I guarantee you Boozer would not complain if he had to play with Carmelo Anthony instead of Noah. It is easier to find rebounds than it is to find 28ppg scoring wing players. The team, as constituted, is not good enough to beat the Miami Heat.

Well Im not interested in your guarantee. Also, its not as simple as just plugging in Anthony and getting 17 points more per game. By adding Anthony, Rose and Boozer might score less per game. Noahs value isnt tied to scoring.

And also, Noah was the 2nd leading rebounder at the time he was injured. Im not buying that this is as easily replaced as your claiming.

 

[houheffna]

Well Im not interested in your guarantee. Also, its not as simple as just plugging in Anthony and getting 17 points more per game. By adding Anthony, Rose and Boozer might score less per game. Noahs value isnt tied to scoring.

And also, Noah was the 2nd leading rebounder at the time he was injured. Im not buying that this is as easily replaced as your claiming.

From the way you talk, you are not interested in winning either...

As far as rebounding, you don't have to buy it...Boozer averaged 11 boards a game last year, was an allstar in the same conference as Garnett, Nowitzki, Duncan and Stoudamire. If he played in the east, he would have been a 4 or 5 time allstar. Noah isn't a franchise player, Anthony is...you don't win with role players if you don't have stars to build around. Plain ans simple. Rose is not yet a star on that level, and we don't know if he will ever be. Anthony is a superstar...period...

 

[pinkizdead]

Unless your point is that rose and boozer both need to take a lot of shots in order to maintain efficiency, who cares if rose and boozer score less per game.

noah's value isn't tied to scoring, but scorers have more value than purely defensive players. I'd take hakeem over mutumbo any day of the week. Noah isn't going to bring a lot on the offensive side of things. also he's going to slow down on the number of rebounds per game with the addition of boozer. Noah has good passing abilities and a decent handle, but he's not really skilled at scoring.

**** what anyone says, defense only wins champions IFF you have scoring. Right now a team is Special person if they dont help off brewer and noah to double boozer and rose. Plus you could let the other guy wander a bit off deng especially near the 3pt line. Could you imagine other teams being so bold if we had melo, boozer, and rose on the team? you'd have to stick two guys to melo, rose, or boozer; but you can't double all 3.

Plus we dont even know if boozer and noah will work together. boozer's been playing with a faceup center for most of his career that i've seen. Maybe the addition of noah in the painted area will hamper boozer's game.

 

[pinkizdead]

From the way you talk, you are not interested in winning either...
Rose is not yet a star on that level, and we don't know if he will ever be. Anthony is a superstar...period...

right now if anthony was on this team, he'd be our star. Rose would be the best damn robin in the nba.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Just because a players' rebounds per game decreases... it doesn't mean that player is necessary a worse or better rebounder than before. If Dennis Rodman played on a team with Shawn Marion and Wilt Chamberlain, his per-game boards would go down. Rebounding percentage is a much more telling stat than rebounds-per-game.

I say, let those teams try to double Rose and/or Boozer. There's going to be more open shots for the supporting cast than we Bulls' fans have seen since the Jordan days. I'm looking forward to a ton more trips to the FT line, as well.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

right now if anthony was on this team, he'd be our star. Rose would be the best damn robin in the nba.

LeBron James or Dwyane Wade disagrees with you. What makes you think the Bulls' offense will be that much better with Carmelo Anthony? At least LeBron James and Wade are well-above average defensive players. D-Rose and Melo... not so much. Rose is below average and Melo is average.

 

[Lex L.]

From the way you talk, you are not interested in winning either...

As far as rebounding, you don't have to buy it...Boozer averaged 11 boards a game last year, was an allstar in the same conference as Garnett, Nowitzki, Duncan and Stoudamire. If he played in the east, he would have been a 4 or 5 time allstar. Noah isn't a franchise player, Anthony is...you don't win with role players if you don't have stars to build around. Plain ans simple. Rose is not yet a star on that level, and we don't know if he will ever be. Anthony is a superstar...period...

Once again, the team that had the most rebounds, won every single game in the NBA finals. Sorry but rebounding correlates to winning.

And Im not buying this argument that Boozer can just do more. First of all, Noah was the 2nd leading rebounder when he was injured. Noah is highly productive in this department.

You could make the case that our series against Cleveland with Rose and Noah was more competitive than Denver's series vs Utah when Denver had Anthony. I guess Nene should have just rebounded more because Kenyon Martin was injured. I mean, its that easy, right?

 

[houheffna]

Once again, the team that had the most rebounds, won every single game in the NBA finals. Sorry but rebounding correlates to winning.

And Im not buying this argument that Boozer can just do more. First of all, Noah was the 2nd leading rebounder when he was injured. Noah is highly productive in this department.

You could make the case that our series against Cleveland with Rose and Noah was more competitive than Denver's series vs Utah when Denver had Anthony. I guess Nene should have just rebounded more because Kenyon Martin was injured. I mean, its that easy, right?

Let me let you in on a little secret......

100% of the time, not just in the finals, but in every game in NBA history, whoever SCORED the most points won the game! I can show you times when teams were outrebounded and won, I DARE you to show me one time in NBA history a team won scoring less points....holla at me when you find that boxscore...lol

 

[Lex L.]

LeBron James or Dwyane Wade disagrees with you. What makes you think the Bulls' offense will be that much better with Carmelo Anthony? At least LeBron James and Wade are well-above average defensive players. D-Rose and Melo... not so much. Rose is below average and Melo is average.

Another flaw with this arms race way of thinking is that Wade and James are both good passers. Anthony, not so much.