Avs V Hawks

[Bigfoot]

Down 2 already. This team is such trash. Thanks Clowman

 

[Bigfoot]

Positives:

Penalty Kill hasn’t given one up yet

Negatives:
d-zone play
shots on goal
No speed
Turnovers in d-zone
getting pushed around
Did I mention d-zone play

This team is absolutely pitiful playing in the d-zone. Can’t clear the puck, turnovers galore. I have seen better d-zone play from squirt and pee-wee kids.

 

[Raskolnikov]

With Colliton gone why is DeHaan not in the press box?
Why is Toews invisible?
Kane hasn’t scored in over a month.
can the Hawks even score today?
Seppuku.

 

[Bust]

Down 2 already. This team is such trash. Thanks Clowman

Their head scout is Mark Kelley, no? For a scout he sure found himself behind the mic lots. Per nba, mlb, nfl, when have you seen head scouts appear as much as Kelley? can you even name any of the headscouts for any of the other chicago sports franchises <without googling, heh>.

When the new regime is finally settled in they need to revamp the whole scouting department . . .

 

[KBIB]

Makar completely clowned Dach on the final play. Dach shouldn’t have been out there so much in OT.

Flower didn’t deserve this. Three of the goals against him weren’t on him.

 

[KBIB]

Their head scout is Mark Kelley, no? For a scout he sure found himself behind the mic lots. Per nba, mlb, nfl, when have you seen head scouts appear as much as Kelley? can you even name any of the headscouts for any of the other chicago sports franchises <without googling, heh>.

When the new regime is finally settled in they need to revamp the whole scouting department . . .

By revamping you mean getting rid of? I’m on board. Kelly doesn’t get a head scouting position on any NHL team outside of this one, he’s horrible.

 

[MassHavoc]

3 goals from fucking defensemen....

 

[LordKOTL]

Makar completely clowned Dach on the final play. Dach shouldn’t have been out there so much in OT.

Flower didn’t deserve this. Three of the goals against him weren’t on him.

To be fair, Makar's goal was a thing of beauty and I don't see many who aren't 1st ballot hall-of-fame 2-way forwards not getting burned on that play.

I can't even be mad at it. Dach's jock was on the ice and so was Fleury's. Maybe it's karmic payback for when Toews undressed all 5 guys on the Avs way back when and fed Jose Theodore his lunch.

 

[Granada]

To be fair, Makar's goal was a thing of beauty and I don't see many who aren't 1st ballot hall-of-fame 2-way forwards not getting burned on that play.

I can't even be mad at it. Dach's jock was on the ice and so was Fleury's. Maybe it's karmic payback for when Toews undressed all 5 guys on the Avs way back when and fed Jose Theodore his lunch.

Exactly right. There is zero shame in getting scored on from Makar as far as D-men go, the kid is an utter stud. Honestly, he's one of my favorite D-men to watch in the league right now.

 

[HSBOB]

The team is shutout last night w/o 88/19/12 yet 88/19/12 are on the bench to start OT?
Dach saw 3 more mins than Kane and 4 more than JT or D-Cat last night and lost every draw in OT..........36% on the night.....again.

Possession is everything in OT to the point where the puck carrier will leave the O-zone or even pass the puck back to his GT to keep possession and yet we give up possession by losing draw after draw in OT.......King didn't deserve the W last night!


eit: Hawks just traded NOlander.

 

[Granada]

The team is shutout last night w/o 88/19/12 yet 88/19/12 are on the bench to start OT?
Dach saw 3 more mins than Kane and 4 more than JT or D-Cat last night and lost every draw in OT..........36% on the night.....again.

Possession is everything in OT to the point where the puck carrier will leave the O-zone or even pass the puck back to his GT to keep possession and yet we give up possession by losing draw after draw in OT.......King didn't deserve the W last night!


eit: Hawks just traded NOlander.

Obviously I couldn't watch the game since it was on BSPN+, but were any/all of 88/19/12 on the ice for a long period at the end of the third? Perhaps that's why King didn't play them much, but I'm just guessing. Otherwise, yeah, start your best players in OT.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Thought Fleury was great, a l

Makar completely clowned Dach on the final play. Dach shouldn’t have been out there so much in OT.

Flower didn’t deserve this. Three of the goals against him weren’t on him.

ittle first period rust then locked them down.

 

[KBIB]

To be fair, Makar's goal was a thing of beauty and I don't see many who aren't 1st ballot hall-of-fame 2-way forwards not getting burned on that play.

I can't even be mad at it. Dach's jock was on the ice and so was Fleury's. Maybe it's karmic payback for when Toews undressed all 5 guys on the Avs way back when and fed Jose Theodore his lunch.

Oh, it was.

My point stands that Dach shouldn’t have been out there so much when he doesn’t bring enough offense to the table.

You obviously want Kane and Cat, but for possession you have to have Toews out there who almost won it in OT. McDavid and Drai play the entire OT, there’s no excuse to not winning.

There’s two different Kirby Dachs- one who is a monster every shift and the other who doesn’t look like he gives a shit out there. I like the one, can’t stand the other.

And sure enough Nylander gone for an AHL plug. Maybe this GM is getting rid of Blowmans mistakes, I can get behind that.

 

[LordKOTL]

Oh, it was.

My point stands that Dach shouldn’t have been out there so much when he doesn’t bring enough offense to the table.

You obviously want Kane and Cat, but for possession you have to have Toews out there who almost won it in OT. McDavid and Drai play the entire OT, there’s no excuse to not winning.

There’s two different Kirby Dachs- one who is a monster every shift and the other who doesn’t look like he gives a shit out there. I like the one, can’t stand the other.

And sure enough Nylander gone for an AHL plug. Maybe this GM is getting rid of Blowmans mistakes, I can get behind that.

Perhaps, but I think this rebuild is going to be long and arduous.

If we drill this down, it took ~8 years between the very first core piece (Keith, a defender) was drafted. The only other pieces of note from that draft were Wizniewski, Matt Ellison (who was part of the highway robbery we pulled on Philly for Sharp), and Burish. The 2nd core piece drafted? Seabrook, also a defenseman. The 3rd from the same draft was Crawford--both 7 years between Draft and 1st cup, and Crawford got his first 9 years from his draft. Other pieces of note were Lassie Kukkonen & Byfuglien (who might have been a core piece if he wasn't traded).

Basically, 7-9 years from draft to cup contention for D and G.

Next draft? Significant pieces drafted by the 'hawks were Bolland, Bickell, & Brouwer.

Following draft? We got the core piece of Hjammer, and no one else of note.

Following? Toews as a core piece, no one else of note.

Following? Kane as a core piece.

Following? No one of note in terms of winning (Beach was our pick on this draft)

Following? Kruger--and that was the year we won our 1st cup.
~~~
So, looking at the team NOW. What do we have and where will it be in 7-9 years?

Debrincat will be 31-33
Jones will be 34-36
Hagel will be 30-32 - And he's more of a complimentary, and not a core piece.
Dach will be 27-29 - And he hasn't yet proven he'll be a core piece and not a complimentary one.
Lankinen will be 33-35 - And given his numbers he might not be a top-32 goaltender in the league, much less a top 10-15 like Crawford was.
No one else really fits the core or 2nd tier status. Reichel, maybe, but he's not played a single NHL game.

None of them, except Jones, are defensemen, and he'll be old.

I'm all for getting rid of the Beancounter's mistakes, but where the 'hawks are sitting right now is about where we were sitting in the early 2000's. I think with the *possible* exceptions of Debrincat, Dach, and Reichel, the next core hasn't been drafted yet.

 

[KBIB]

Perhaps, but I think this rebuild is going to be long and arduous.

If we drill this down, it took ~8 years between the very first core piece (Keith, a defender) was drafted. The only other pieces of note from that draft were Wizniewski, Matt Ellison (who was part of the highway robbery we pulled on Philly for Sharp), and Burish. The 2nd core piece drafted? Seabrook, also a defenseman. The 3rd from the same draft was Crawford--both 7 years between Draft and 1st cup, and Crawford got his first 9 years from his draft. Other pieces of note were Lassie Kukkonen & Byfuglien (who might have been a core piece if he wasn't traded).

Basically, 7-9 years from draft to cup contention for D and G.

Next draft? Significant pieces drafted by the 'hawks were Bolland, Bickell, & Brouwer.

Following draft? We got the core piece of Hjammer, and no one else of note.

Following? Toews as a core piece, no one else of note.

Following? Kane as a core piece.

Following? No one of note in terms of winning (Beach was our pick on this draft)

Following? Kruger--and that was the year we won our 1st cup.
~~~
So, looking at the team NOW. What do we have and where will it be in 7-9 years?

Debrincat will be 31-33
Jones will be 34-36
Hagel will be 30-32 - And he's more of a complimentary, and not a core piece.
Dach will be 27-29 - And he hasn't yet proven he'll be a core piece and not a complimentary one.
Lankinen will be 33-35 - And given his numbers he might not be a top-32 goaltender in the league, much less a top 10-15 like Crawford was.
No one else really fits the core or 2nd tier status. Reichel, maybe, but he's not played a single NHL game.

None of them, except Jones, are defensemen, and he'll be old.

I'm all for getting rid of the Beancounter's mistakes, but where the 'hawks are sitting right now is about where we were sitting in the early 2000's. I think with the *possible* exceptions of Debrincat, Dach, and Reichel, the next core hasn't been drafted yet.

Then trade everyone and take advantage of these next two drafts.

Simple as that.

 

[LordKOTL]

Then trade everyone and take advantage of these next two drafts.

Simple as that.

If we can. We got 6 players with clauses (Johnson, Fleury, Jones, McCabe, Toews, and Kane). If they don't want to go anywhere it'll be hard to move them.

Plus, All reports I'm hearing is that this draft is weak and the next one is strong, and if we manage the top-2 pick this one we keep it, and lose our #1 pick NEXT season. It might actually be worth it to *not* blow it up this season, but next.

It might be worth it to play into mediocrity this season so Columbus takes our pick in the weaker draft, then hit rock bottom next season--especially if we don't re-sign Fleury.

But the other key part is that the next two drafts? Key picks have to hit--like Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane, Hjammer, Crawford--that style of hitting. So far all we got is Debrincat as a "hit" The jury's out for Reichel and Dach. I don't have numbers to support it, but it seems to me that even though Smith/Tallon had their misses too (Cam Barker anyone?), they had enough hits. Bowman didn't have many hits--Debrincat and you could make an argument for Saad since he was key in our cup wins.

Even if we blow everything up, if we don't get a good, current hockey mind in the system the rebuild could still fail.

 

[KBIB]

If we can. We got 6 players with clauses (Johnson, Fleury, Jones, McCabe, Toews, and Kane). If they don't want to go anywhere it'll be hard to move them.

Plus, All reports I'm hearing is that this draft is weak and the next one is strong, and if we manage the top-2 pick this one we keep it, and lose our #1 pick NEXT season. It might actually be worth it to *not* blow it up this season, but next.

It might be worth it to play into mediocrity this season so Columbus takes our pick in the weaker draft, then hit rock bottom next season--especially if we don't re-sign Fleury.

But the other key part is that the next two drafts? Key picks have to hit--like Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane, Hjammer, Crawford--that style of hitting. So far all we got is Debrincat as a "hit" The jury's out for Reichel and Dach. I don't have numbers to support it, but it seems to me that even though Smith/Tallon had their misses too (Cam Barker anyone?), they had enough hits. Bowman didn't have many hits--Debrincat and you could make an argument for Saad since he was key in our cup wins.

Even if we blow everything up, if we don't get a good, current hockey mind in the system the rebuild could still fail.

Well, this years draft is deep, next years draft is top heavy with elite talents.

Losing the first rounder but picking up as many second and thirds as they can get this year would be smart, but Wright is going to be a keeper and Savoie isn’t a slouch any more. These are high end talents.

It would be smart to lose the first this year because right now the lottery is stacked next year. Smart money would be to get rid of as much as possible for an honest tank and bank on getting as high in the draft next year for Bedard or the Russian kid, both look like they will be superstars.

If the projection is five years, trade Cat for another lottery pick in next years draft if somebody is that stupid to give one up, and build around Dach and Reichel and Jones, who’s game might translate, if not, retain and trade him too.

Im all for a complete reset for this team and wiping Blowmans failures completely off. Keeping this GM around still makes me think Blowman is on speed dial. Get somebody in there with a plan and start from there.

 

[LordKOTL]

Well, this years draft is deep, next years draft is top heavy with elite talents.

Losing the first rounder but picking up as many second and thirds as they can get this year would be smart, but Wright is going to be a keeper and Savoie isn’t a slouch any more. These are high end talents.

It would be smart to lose the first this year because right now the lottery is stacked next year. Smart money would be to get rid of as much as possible for an honest tank and bank on getting as high in the draft next year for Bedard or the Russian kid, both look like they will be superstars.

If the projection is five years, trade Cat for another lottery pick in next years draft if somebody is that stupid to give one up, and build around Dach and Reichel and Jones, who’s game might translate, if not, retain and trade him too.
V
Im all for a complete reset for this team and wiping Blowmans failures completely off. Keeping this GM around still makes me think Blowman is on speed dial. Get somebody in there with a plan and start from there.

I think the timeline is more like 7-10 years.

 

[KBIB]

I think the timeline is more like 7-10 years.

I don’t think it will take that long even with a scorched earth rebuild.

So long as Kelly isn’t the one doing the drafting.

This years draft has quanitity. Those third and fourth round picks will give you a shot at getting a piece.

23 is the draft to be drafting in the lottery. I don’t like Kelly in any position to be going off the board these next two drafts, which he has a history to do. You have to take bpa and it doesn’t matter if your filling up at one position.

 

[LordKOTL]

I don’t think it will take that long even with a scorched earth rebuild.

So long as Kelly isn’t the one doing the drafting.

This years draft has quanitity. Those third and fourth round picks will give you a shot at getting a piece.

23 is the draft to be drafting in the lottery. I don’t like Kelly in any position to be going off the board these next two drafts, which he has a history to do. You have to take bpa and it doesn’t matter if your filling up at one position.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it took 8 years from Keith being drafted to cup win. 7 for Seabrook.

We have no one in the system remotely comparable to either of them on D, and you're looking at Seth Jones money on the open market and easily 7M in today's cap dollars for a Hjammer comparable (no, Murph is nowhere near what a prime Hjammer was).

That's what? 16M at least to shore up the D along with Seth Jones, plus jettisoning the pointless waste?

And that's just D.

I think it will be that long unless we get very lucky.