Bulls Beat #119 - Wings n' Things

[dougthonus]

I discuss wing prospects for the Bulls going over Terrance Williams, Gerald Henderson, Chase Budinger, Marcus Thornton, and Wayne Ellington.

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Bulls Beat #119

 

[ryguy24]

Good stuff as always. It seems like you've came around on Henderson a bit. I remember asking you what you thought of him a few weeks ago and it sounded mostly negative, so it's interesting that you've turned the corner a bit. Certainly sounds like you wouldn't be dissappointed with him at 16, but like you said, chances are that it will be a moot point since he's likely going right before we pick.

One thing that dragged over from the last podcast with JG was how Thornton's big negative was how you have to draw up plays for the guy, but i'm still a little confused on how that's a big negative. Aren't all good scorers going to have plays specifically drawn up to get them good looks? I mean, I understand you guys probably mean it in a way that highlights how he can't create great for himself, but if you can draw up plays for the guy and he scores very efficiently off of it, well, then i'm fine drawing up plays for him in the first place. And it's not like he couldn't benefit off of Rose's penetration and kickouts (hitting spot up shots in corners) as well.

 

[pyobuttah]

Henderson is not Dahntay Jones, but he is not going to be a stud. Henderson has more of a mid-range jumper than Jones ever had. I'm really not that high on Ellington as to me he is slower than people realize and is only 6'4 - reminds me of a slightly more athletic Trajon Langdon. Budinger is okay to me for the 26th pick as he can shoot, but is soft. I am high on Thornton though cause he is going to be a good sixth man type; yeah he had an offense ran for him, but he torched the likes of UNC. He can shoot, and he can shoot fade-a-way jumpers. Put him along with Rose creating, and he can get you 10-15 a game. He is not an athletic freak, but he is solid and has a heady IQ for offense!

 

[Simeon2UC]

I like Chase more than the other guys. He has a role and it fits with Rose penetrating ability.

 

[Rerisen]

dougthonus wrote:

I discuss wing prospects for the Bulls going over Terrance Williams, Gerald Henderson, Chase Budinger, Marcus Thornton, and Wayne Ellington.

I don't watch a ton of college ball, but from your capsule on Henderson and other reports of him, I'm thinking of him as a Ronnie Brewer type NBA player, does that seem close?

So the Bulls taking him might be kind of a Thabo redo, with hope for someone a little more advanced on offense and finishing.

 

[dougthonus]

Ronnie Brewer is a pretty good comparison Henderson. I'm not sure that Henderson is the passer Brewer is, or if he has as good of handles, but I didn't start seriously scouting players in Brewer's class, so my opinion of him isn't that well researched regarding his college level of play.

 

[dougthonus]

As far as Thornton, what Jonathan means is that the whole team is executing a play run for Thornton. He's coming off of multiple screens and then getting the ball delivered by someone else and then having more screens set for him etc..

If you're only an okay scorer, that's an awful lot of work to do to get a shot for you. I agree that it's not a huge negative, but his point was more like this:

Thornton's not going to give you defense, rebounding, passing, etc.. He's going to give you scoring, except that he can't create his own shot or score in isolation, so you're going to have to have a lot of work done to get scoring out of him.

Thornton may be a guy like Eddie House. Eddie House can shoot off screens run around and shoot, sit in the corner and shoot etc, but he doesn't give you anything else other than that, and you have to work hard to get him the shots, and because he can't create on his own, it's not worth it working that hard relative to what he actually gives you.

Thornton can be a similar type of role player I think, and that has some value, but it's not huge value.

Terrence Williams has grown on me some, I was writing up my review for chicagonow.com on him, and I thought about it, and he's basically a guy who gives you everything but scoring, but as far as scoring goes, he can make catch and shoot plays, and will probably be effective eventually as a catch and shoot guy from the corner. So a guy who defends and can shoot open 3s. For a role player, that's basically exactly what you want out of the guy next to Rose.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

As far as Thornton, what Jonathan means is that the whole team is executing a play run for Thornton. He's coming off of multiple screens and then getting the ball delivered by someone else and then having more screens set for him etc..

If you're only an okay scorer, that's an awful lot of work to do to get a shot for you. I agree that it's not a huge negative, but his point was more like this:

Thornton's not going to give you defense, rebounding, passing, etc.. He's going to give you scoring, except that he can't create his own shot or score in isolation, so you're going to have to have a lot of work done to get scoring out of him.

Thornton may be a guy like Eddie House. Eddie House can shoot off screens run around and shoot, sit in the corner and shoot etc, but he doesn't give you anything else other than that, and you have to work hard to get him the shots, and because he can't create on his own, it's not worth it working that hard relative to what he actually gives you.

Thornton can be a similar type of role player I think, and that has some value, but it's not huge value.

Terrence Williams has grown on me some, I was writing up my review for chicagonow.com on him, and I thought about it, and he's basically a guy who gives you everything but scoring, but as far as scoring goes, he can make catch and shoot plays, and will probably be effective eventually as a catch and shoot guy from the corner. So a guy who defends and can shoot open 3s. For a role player, that's basically exactly what you want out of the guy next to Rose.

Glad to hear you coming around on Williams and what you wrote is why guys such as myself and Red like him.. He rebounds, defends, a great passer and fits nice with Gordon and Rose going forward...

Rose is the creator so we need guys that can do other things and catch and shoot

On Thornton he can rebound and they label him a good rebounder for a SG

 

[Dpauley23]

Williams sounds like good replacement for Hinrich if he we trade him

 

[dougthonus]

Williams can't play PG. He's a good passer and has good court vision, but he's not a good ball handler. He's more of a Thabo Sefolosha with hopefully a better shot.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

Williams can't play PG. He's a good passer and has good court vision, but he's not a good ball handler. He's more of a Thabo Sefolosha with hopefully a better shot.

Definitely can't play PG but I wouldn't mind us replacing him with Kirk and signing a vet like Anthony Johnson as the just in case guy and go with Rose,Gordon,Deng with Williams and Salmons backing up. IMO Gordon can play spot minutes as the PG when Rose is out.

 

[Basghetti80]

Williams if there at 16 is an excellent pick because he has good size, can play both SG and SF, can defend and is a nice fit in our offense with Rose. I don't think you have enough playing time though for Rose, Gordon, Deng, Salmons and Williams. If you sign a vet backup PG in this scenario that leaves


SG:Gordon, Salmons
SFeng, Williams

Now sure Deng MIGHT can play some 4 but at most that is 10 minutes or so. Not going to have enough floor time for Williams and Salmons. I say if we draft a perimeter player at 16 then Gordon is gone, reason being since Hinrich can play PG and SG it helps with the minutes distribution.

 

[OnePointSeven]

dougthonus wrote:

As far as Thornton, what Jonathan means is that the whole team is executing a play run for Thornton. He's coming off of multiple screens and then getting the ball delivered by someone else and then having more screens set for him etc..

If you're only an okay scorer, that's an awful lot of work to do to get a shot for you. I agree that it's not a huge negative, but his point was more like this:

Thornton's not going to give you defense, rebounding, passing, etc.. He's going to give you scoring, except that he can't create his own shot or score in isolation, so you're going to have to have a lot of work done to get scoring out of him.

Thornton may be a guy like Eddie House. Eddie House can shoot off screens run around and shoot, sit in the corner and shoot etc, but he doesn't give you anything else other than that, and you have to work hard to get him the shots, and because he can't create on his own, it's not worth it working that hard relative to what he actually gives you.

Thornton can be a similar type of role player I think, and that has some value, but it's not huge value.

Terrence Williams has grown on me some, I was writing up my review for chicagonow.com on him, and I thought about it, and he's basically a guy who gives you everything but scoring, but as far as scoring goes, he can make catch and shoot plays, and will probably be effective eventually as a catch and shoot guy from the corner. So a guy who defends and can shoot open 3s. For a role player, that's basically exactly what you want out of the guy next to Rose.

Breakdown Sam Young and I think you'll be just as satisfied, if not more. Personally, I like Young more. He's listed as a SF, but I think he'll be able to play SG in the NBA as well. Young could be our Craig Ehlo for LeBron. I see Young as Ron Artest-like without any of the attitude. Huge steal late in the draft IMO.