Bulls Legacy from JORDAN

[HeHateMe]

Good morning.

I've been trying to get my kiddos into watching different sports to see what they might enjoy besides football. Son loves soccer and sumo wrestling, daughter hates baseball, sorta likes hockey, so we started watching YouTubes of classic performances, Jordan, kobe, bird, Bill Russell, Bron,and then a bunch of streetball.

So my daughter asked a question, "are the bulls any good anymore?" LOL no. So she was like, how could they be bad if they had the GOAT and the best team in NBA history? "Don't the players have any pride in their team and want to carry on the legacy of Michael?"

It's a naive question I guess, but is this a thing or will it ever be a thing again? Or is it all just about money?


I personally don't know. Bears players talk about the history all the time, and sometimes it seems more than just pandering to the fan base. Do bulls players do that?

Last player I was excited about was Laurie Merkenan or whatever I'm not spelling right here...

 

[knoxville7]

no, its been pretty much the standard bulls pracctice to shy away from all things related to the jordan years.

which, is probably why they have sucked for the majority of the time since jordan left....bunch of betas

 

[Scoot26]

So my daughter asked a question, "are the bulls any good anymore?" LOL no. So she was like, how could they be bad if they had the GOAT and the best team in NBA history? "Don't the players have any pride in their team and want to carry on the legacy of Michael?"

It's a naive question I guess, but is this a thing or will it ever be a thing again? Or is it all just about money?

Most teams go through a bad period after being great. However, the Bulls are probably in the longest drought of showing such greatness and not having the ability to get anywhere close again. I wouldn't say the players having pride applies to anything right now. Anyone 25 or younger on the team wasn't even alive the last time the Bulls won a title. Though, I suppose you can say the same thing with the Bears in which 1985 was even longer ago.

The owner certainly lives in the legacy of the Jordan years, and makes plenty of money off that legacy, but that really isn't the whole story and is just speaking in simple terms.

I personally don't know. Bears players talk about the history all the time, and sometimes it seems more than just pandering to the fan base. Do bulls players do that?

No, I also wouldn't really say Bulls players are asked that much by the media... though I also can't say I've watched any interviews in the last 10 years from players.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Good morning.

I've been trying to get my kiddos into watching different sports to see what they might enjoy besides football. Son loves soccer and sumo wrestling, daughter hates baseball, sorta likes hockey, so we started watching YouTubes of classic performances, Jordan, kobe, bird, Bill Russell, Bron,and then a bunch of streetball.

So my daughter asked a question, "are the bulls any good anymore?" LOL no. So she was like, how could they be bad if they had the GOAT and the best team in NBA history? "Don't the players have any pride in their team and want to carry on the legacy of Michael?"

It's a naive question I guess, but is this a thing or will it ever be a thing again? Or is it all just about money?


I personally don't know. Bears players talk about the history all the time, and sometimes it seems more than just pandering to the fan base. Do bulls players do that?

Last player I was excited about was Laurie Merkenan or whatever I'm not spelling right here...

Reinsdorf said it himself that fans just want to see you on the come, but that there's no difference between that and winning titles. Of course, this is the guy who was lucky enough to have Rod Thorn draft MJ after Olajuwon and Bowie were taken.

When Jerry goes to the big deli in the sky, it's his son Michael who is going to take over. On the surface, I'd say Michael is willing to go into the luxury tax which is very much different than the old man. So, they are a cheap franchise that doesn't value the right things.

In addition, former players - namely Scottie Pippen - do an annual trashing of the organization that really doesn't help. I mean, look at how the fans reacted to Jerry Krause. There's a lot of things you can say about Krause, but he's the one that hired Phil, he's the one that made the trade to bring Pippen here in the first place. He's the one that drafted Kukoc, and he's the one that traded for Rodman. What was the great sin he committed that made him a villain? He dared ask for some credit for 6 championships. The horror.

 

[truthbedamned]

Reinsdorf said it himself that fans just want to see you on the come, but that there's no difference between that and winning titles. Of course, this is the guy who was lucky enough to have Rod Thorn draft MJ after Olajuwon and Bowie were taken.

When Jerry goes to the big deli in the sky, it's his son Michael who is going to take over. On the surface, I'd say Michael is willing to go into the luxury tax which is very much different than the old man. So, they are a cheap franchise that doesn't value the right things.

In addition, former players - namely Scottie Pippen - do an annual trashing of the organization that really doesn't help. I mean, look at how the fans reacted to Jerry Krause. There's a lot of things you can say about Krause, but he's the one that hired Phil, he's the one that made the trade to bring Pippen here in the first place. He's the one that drafted Kukoc, and he's the one that traded for Rodman. What was the great sin he committed that made him a villain? He dared ask for some credit for 6 championships. The horror.

He tore the team down when they could have continued winning just to prove he could do it without Jordan

And he failed miserably
That is what Krause did

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

He tore the team down when they could have continued winning just to prove he could do it without Jordan

And he failed miserably
That is what Krause did

K....

That changes what he did from 1985-1998 exactly how?

I'm not stanning for the guy. I'm merely stating that to not include him is silly.

 

[Scoot26]

Reinsdorf said it himself that fans just want to see you on the come, but that there's no difference between that and winning titles. Of course, this is the guy who was lucky enough to have Rod Thorn draft MJ after Olajuwon and Bowie were taken.

When Jerry goes to the big deli in the sky, it's his son Michael who is going to take over. On the surface, I'd say Michael is willing to go into the luxury tax which is very much different than the old man. So, they are a cheap franchise that doesn't value the right things.

In addition, former players - namely Scottie Pippen - do an annual trashing of the organization that really doesn't help. I mean, look at how the fans reacted to Jerry Krause. There's a lot of things you can say about Krause, but he's the one that hired Phil, he's the one that made the trade to bring Pippen here in the first place. He's the one that drafted Kukoc, and he's the one that traded for Rodman. What was the great sin he committed that made him a villain? He dared ask for some credit for 6 championships. The horror.

Krause's downfall was his own ego, but also some of the constraints put on him by Reinsdorf.. which did result in 3 more championships, but ended the dynasty at possibly the worst time to end the dynasty. The drafts from 1999-2002 were not good drafts to tank in.

His ego seemed to be that he was over Jackson after 1998, and other than his close friendship with Tim Floyd, it doesn't really make sense why he was done with Jackson. He had attempted to trade Pippen a few times between 1994-1997. Reinsdorf ended some of those attempts, and I think made Krause bring back Jackson for 97-98 when Krause didn't really want to.

I don't know if Jordan would have kept playing in 1999 if Phil Jackson actually stayed. Jordan himself seemed kind of burned out after 1998 in a similar way he was in 1993. So the question always comes down to does Jordan actually stay in 1999?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

View attachment 39174

Krause's downfall was his own ego, but also some of the constraints put on him by Reinsdorf.. which did result in 3 more championships, but ended the dynasty at possibly the worst time to end the dynasty. The drafts from 1999-2002 were not good drafts to tank in.

His ego seemed to be that he was over Jackson after 1998, and other than his close friendship with Tim Floyd, it doesn't really make sense why he was done with Jackson. He had attempted to trade Pippen a few times between 1994-1997. Reinsdorf ended some of those attempts, and I think made Krause bring back Jackson for 97-98 when Krause didn't really want to.

I don't know if Jordan would have kept playing in 1999 if Phil Jackson actually stayed. Jordan himself seemed kind of burned out after 1998 in a similar way he was in 1993. So the question always comes down to does Jordan actually stay in 1999?

I think the bigger what-if is what Thorn would have done if he had the first or second pick in 1984. I feel like he said in interviews that he'd have still drafted Jordan, but I can't confirm that.

 

[Scoot26]

I think the bigger what-if is what Thorn would have done if he had the first or second pick in 1984. I feel like he said in interviews that he'd have still drafted Jordan, but I can't confirm that.

His quote after drafting him on draft night was “We wish he were seven feet, but he isn’t"

“When you win only 55 games in two years,” said Thorn, “you don’t get well all at once. Look, when Isiah Thomas went to Detroit, he improved them but it took two years to make the playoffs.We’ve taken a step in the right direction. Jordan isn’t going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn’t ask him to. I wouldn’t put that kind of pressure on him.”

“We picked him because you can’t pass up a great player. If we were a great team, we could have drafted for need. We need a center; we’re going to have to get one. There just wasn’t one there.”

This Tribune Article is from 1984 originally after the draft:

June 20, 1984: Apologetic Bulls ‘stuck’ with Michael Jordan

Note: This article originally appeared in the Chicago Tribune on June 20, 1984 The Chicago Bulls send their regrets. They ask forgiveness. Please understand. They really wanted to do better in the …

www.chicagotribune.com

Teams were openly tanking in 1984 for Olajuwon. Olajuwon was going #1 no matter what. That was also just the nature of the NBA then. Everyone wanted an amazing center.

Thorn is quoted in that article that he would have still picked Jordan at #2. It also states that the Bulls were attempting to trade away the #3 pick to avoid having to pick Jordan.

 

[knoxville7]

View attachment 39174

Krause's downfall was his own ego, but also some of the constraints put on him by Reinsdorf.. which did result in 3 more championships, but ended the dynasty at possibly the worst time to end the dynasty. The drafts from 1999-2002 were not good drafts to tank in.

His ego seemed to be that he was over Jackson after 1998, and other than his close friendship with Tim Floyd, it doesn't really make sense why he was done with Jackson. He had attempted to trade Pippen a few times between 1994-1997. Reinsdorf ended some of those attempts, and I think made Krause bring back Jackson for 97-98 when Krause didn't really want to.

I don't know if Jordan would have kept playing in 1999 if Phil Jackson actually stayed. Jordan himself seemed kind of burned out after 1998 in a similar way he was in 1993. So the question always comes down to does Jordan actually stay in 1999?

1999 was the strike shortened season, right? i could see jordan loving the shortened regular season and taking another run at a ring

 

[Scoot26]

Most teams go through a bad period after being great. However, the Bulls are probably in the longest drought of showing such greatness and not having the ability to get anywhere close again.

I researched this and it would appear the Bulls have some company in this. In teams that had their cores win at least two championships, the Knicks and Rockets are the two franchises with longer droughts of not winning again. The Knicks did get back to the Finals two times since last winning in 1973 (94 and 99). The Knicks haven't sniffed a Conference Final since 2000, though were close last season. The Rockets have gone to two conference finals since Olajuwon retired, losing both to the Warriors in 2015 and 2018.

The Bulls have one conference finals appearance in 2011.

 

[Scoot26]

Also to this:

It also states that the Bulls were attempting to trade away the #3 pick to avoid having to pick Jordan.

A 1986 Tribune article about Jack Sikma says the Bulls tried to acquire him in 1984 for their pick. It was contingent on Sam Bowie being available at #3.

The Bulls almost acquired Sikma two years ago. There was a deal in the works where, if Portland had won the coin flip with Houston, the Trail Blazers would have selected Akeem Olajuwon, the Rockets Michael Jordan and the Bulls would have trade their No. 3 pick for Sikma. Seattle planned to take Sam Bowie with that pick. Houston, though, won the flip and took Olajuwon, Portland took Bowie and the Bulls drafted Jordan.

BULLS CENTER ATTENTION ON SONICS` SIKMA

The Bulls are making their move to acquire Jack Sikma, the Seattle SuperSonics` 6-foot-11-inch center. According to a source close to the Sonics, Seattle general manager Lenny Wilkens is talking to…

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[Scoot26]

1999 was the strike shortened season, right? i could see jordan loving the shortened regular season and taking another run at a ring

Michael Jordan severed a tendon in his right index finger with a cigar cutter after the 1997-98 season. How much did that influence his decision to retire?

“The Last Dance,” ESPN’s 10-part documentary about Michael Jordan and the 1997-98 Chicago Bulls, presents that season as one that management declared would be the final chapter of…

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[knoxville7]

Michael Jordan severed a tendon in his right index finger with a cigar cutter after the 1997-98 season. How much did that influence his decision to retire?

“The Last Dance,” ESPN’s 10-part documentary about Michael Jordan and the 1997-98 Chicago Bulls, presents that season as one that management declared would be the final chapter of…

www.chicagotribune.com

meh, woulda just added to the legacy of the GOAT to miss most of that shortened regular season and then come back to dominate in the playoffs

 

[Scoot26]

meh, woulda just added to the legacy of the GOAT to miss most of that shortened regular season and then come back to dominate in the playoffs

Likely could have. East was weak by 1999. Allen Iverson is really the only super in the East then and the Sixers were basically him and nothing else. So as long as the Bulls could remain playoff viable with him Jordan, it's quite possible.

If we look at how some of these guys did in 99, Pippen played 50/50, Kukoc played 44/50 games, Harper played 35/50. Rodman played only 23 games and was more of a mess than the previous season. Question would be if the Bulls do anything to move anyone for something as a minor shakeup exists of course.

The 8th seeded Knicks went to the Finals that season... so yeah easy to say the Bulls could still ransack the East and get to the Finals.

Be interesting what happens when they play Duncan/DRob.

 

[Enasic]

I remember Rose having a lot of pride and talking about the Jordan days…obviously growing up in Chicago helped.

Other than that, I don’t recall hearing about it too much. We’re talking about a sport where legitimate scrubs get paid more than 99% of earth and more than the most important people in our society. I don’t think they really care or have any pride in the legacy.

I do find it interesting that you hear bears players talk about it all the time but not so much with the Bulls. Probably an ownership/management thing more than anything. Bears ownership/management makes it a point to drill that I believe…could be wrong

 

[knoxville7]

Likely could have. East was weak by 1999. Allen Iverson is really the only super in the East then and the Sixers were basically him and nothing else. So as long as the Bulls could remain playoff viable with him Jordan, it's quite possible.

If we look at how some of these guys did in 99, Pippen played 50/50, Kukoc played 44/50 games, Harper played 35/50. Rodman played only 23 games and was more of a mess than the previous season. Question would be if the Bulls do anything to move anyone for something as a minor shakeup exists of course.

The 8th seeded Knicks went to the Finals that season... so yeah easy to say the Bulls could still ransack the East and get to the Finals.

Be interesting what happens when they play Duncan/DRob.

yep, and then you gotta factor in that a guy like rodman maybe keeps it together better by being on the bulls with Phil and a bunch of vets with rings. not that he would be sane or anything, just be more like the previous 3 years with the bulls

it would def be interesting against duncan and robinson. gotta figure a guy like rodman would be amped to have the chance to guard robinson and play with his balls and all the other weird shit rodman did to people. david was the antithesis of rodman and loathed him from their time together in SA.

longley would have been extremely important to keep around for that 99 season and finals. bulls would have had to find some more goofy big white guys to throw at em lol

 

[Scoot26]

yep, and then you gotta factor in that a guy like rodman maybe keeps it together better by being on the bulls with Phil and a bunch of vets with rings. not that he would be sane or anything, just be more like the previous 3 years with the bulls

it would def be interesting against duncan and robinson. gotta figure a guy like rodman would be amped to have the chance to guard robinson and play with his balls and all the other weird shit rodman did to people. david was the antithesis of rodman and loathed him from their time together in SA.

longley would have been extremely important to keep around for that 99 season and finals. bulls would have had to find some more goofy big white guys to throw at em lol

Yeah hard question if Bulls can stay out of foul trouble while battling DRob and Duncan. If Bulls stick with Longley and Wennington as their only centers, I can just see them being pounded.

 

[knoxville7]

Yeah hard question if Bulls can stay out of foul trouble while battling DRob and Duncan. If Bulls stick with Longley and Wennington as their only centers, I can just see them being pounded.

yeah, it would be an interesting matchup for sure. the bulls never really faced any dominant centers in the finals.

those houston rockets teams gave the bulls trouble with Hakeem. course, the rest of the roster around Hakeem was also better than what was around duncan and robinson at that time

 

[Scoot26]

yeah, it would be an interesting matchup for sure. the bulls never really faced any dominant centers in the finals.

I always found this interesting, in that Jordan became the first to have a team with no dominant center to win a championship and he did it 6 times and all 6 times he faced teams that also did not have a dominating center. Granted that could have only ever been Olajuwon or DRob (well and Shaq in 97 and 98). But the Bulls did beat the Knicks with Ewing several times in the playoffs, and dominated the Shaq and the Magic in 96 (though they beat him in 95).

those houston rockets teams gave the bulls trouble with Hakeem. course, the rest of the roster around Hakeem was also better than what was around duncan and robinson at that time

If we look at pre-Drexler Houston...

93-94 Rockets had a lineup of Olajuwon-Thorpe-Horry-Maxwell-Kenny Smith... Sam Cassell and Mario Elie off the bench.

98-99 Rockets had a lineup of DRob-Duncan-Elliott-Elie-Avery Johnson with Jaren Jackson as their 6th. Malik Rose and Jerome Kersey as key bench contributors.... Steve Kerr was also on this team and I assume he wouldn't be if the Bulls stay together.