Can Verlander Become #10?

[Uman85]

Don Newcombe
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Denny McLain
Vida Blue
Rollie Fingers
Willie Hernandez
Roger Clemens
Dennis Eckersley

What do these 9 pitchers have in common? Among other things, they are the only 9 in history to win the MVP and Cy Young Awards in the same season. Can Justin Verlander join this elite test by accomplishing that feat this year? Discuss.

 

[Gunzaan]

He should join that elite group.

Unfortunately, he won't, because too many of the writers that vote on the award simply will not vote for a pitcher just because he is a pitcher and not an everyday player.

Sad but true.

 

[AE23]

21-5, 2.34 ERA, 49 Walks!, 0.91WHIP.

fawk, hard to argue against those number, but Gunz just said it. position players that play everyday are more like to get the votes. deserved, id say yes. without him, there'd be a 3 way tie for the Central and that be just pathetic.

 

[X]

No other team affected nearly as much if you take one player off their team as the Tigers would be w/out Verlander. Not the yanks or Sox...not the Brewers...Not the Phillies...no one.

W/out Verlander, I doubt Detroit is .500, let alone playoff-bound.

This is honestly, one of the greatest seasons put together by a pitcher in the last 20 years.

 

[Uman85]

No other team affected nearly as much if you take one player off their team as the Tigers would be w/out Verlander. Not the yanks or Sox...not the Brewers...Not the Phillies...no one.

W/out Verlander, I doubt Detroit is .500, let alone playoff-bound.

This is honestly, one of the greatest seasons put together by a pitcher in the last 20 years.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. He's having a hell of a year and is carrying Detroit to the division title.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

he should,key word should

but it'll probably go to granderson since the overall team is better, and always seems to have a big influence

is he leading all triple crown categories currently or am i wrong?

 

[Uman85]

he should,key word should

but it'll probably go to granderson since the overall team is better, and always seems to have a big influence

is he leading all triple crown categories currently or am i wrong?

He's leading in runs and RBIs, HRs he's second to Bautista and in AVG he's only batting .271.

 

[Rice Cube]

The Tigers are 22-8 in games started by Justin Verlander. In decisions, Verlander is 21-5. He's pretty good at baseball. The question the voters have to ask are:

1. Does a pitcher qualify for the MVP award? (actually, yes, and he has to be pretty darned good that year too)

2. Is the pitcher good enough over the season to deserve the MVP award? (I think so)

3. Is that player indispensable to his team? (you can argue yes)

4. If you were building a team, would you want this pitcher or one of the other guys also in the MVP hunt?

I think Verlander will earn MVP votes. I think there are too many obstacles for him to actually win it though. And I also think Jose Bautista is having such a ridiculous hitting season that he'll suck away a huge portion of the vote, if not win it outright.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

If the MVP award is actually voted on and handed out for what it says it is, he should win. He has been the most valuable player this year. The Red Sox without Gonzalez are still a good team. The Yankees without Grandy are still a good team. The Jays without Bautista are still, well, the Jays.

Without Verlander, Detroit isn't a good team. They wouldn't be winning the division right now. Verlander is truly the most valuable player this year and deserves to win.

The writers who vote won't see that, though and will vote for either a Red Sox or Yankees player.

 

[poodski]

No other team affected nearly as much if you take one player off their team as the Tigers would be w/out Verlander. Not the yanks or Sox...not the Brewers...Not the Phillies...no one.

W/out Verlander, I doubt Detroit is .500, let alone playoff-bound.

This is honestly, one of the greatest seasons put together by a pitcher in the last 20 years.

Not one playoff team. You really have to throw in that qualifier.

I put him number two probably.

 

[Uman85]

1. Does a pitcher qualify for the MVP award? --Yes, absolutely. Some will argue that because he only plays once every 5 days that he isn't deserving, but if he makes the most out of those appearances, he's just as deserving and valuable as an everyday player.

2. Is the pitcher good enough over the season to deserve the MVP award? Absolutely, yes.

3. Is that player indispensable to his team? In the games Verlander started, he gave the Tigers a chance to win and added 21 wins to their total. Without that, I don't even see the Tigers being .500.

4. If you were building a team, would you want this pitcher or one of the other guys also in the MVP hunt? Yes, but really I'd want all the MVP candidates on my team. Lol

 

[DewsSox79]

No other team affected nearly as much if you take one player off their team as the Tigers would be w/out Verlander. Not the yanks or Sox...not the Brewers...Not the Phillies...no one.

W/out Verlander, I doubt Detroit is .500, let alone playoff-bound.

This is honestly, one of the greatest seasons put together by a pitcher in the last 20 years.

well said.

 

[Jntg4]

Plus Milly and Philly are irrelevant here because it is only the AL (in response to X-Factor's post)... more that pushes me towards wanting to give Verlander the award...

 

[daddies3angels]

If he gets to 25 wins then il think about him winning MVP. I just think pitchers have CY YOUNG award and its hard to be MVP when you only play 35 games a year while position players usually play 150+

 

[Uman85]

If he gets to 25 wins then il think about him winning MVP. I just think pitchers have CY YOUNG award and its hard to be MVP when you only play 35 games a year while position players usually play 150+

The whole argument of games played is a moot point to me. If the pitcher is the most valuable, you'll see the difference he makes for the team in games that he starts and you'll also see how the team is affected without him on the mound.

 

[Rice Cube]

Well...Detroit is 80-62 at the moment. When Verlander starts the Tigers are 22-8 or something like that. Which means that in all other games, they are 58-54. No Verlander potentially means that Detroit is just barely above ChiSox and Cleveland. You can also look at the run differentials during Verlander starts vs. other starts, but I'm too lazy to do that :lol:

 

[poodski]

You could also look at his WPA.

 

[Rice Cube]

You could also look at his WPA.

Isn't that like super-contextual though? I guess that would work. I was looking more at his individual statistics rather than his team context-driven ones.

 

[poodski]

Yes and no. The point(at least I think) you are making was to look at the difference in offense from when verlander pitches vs offense when he doesnt.

Verlanders WPA is defense included but you would still be able to see what the offense did. You could go one step further and figure what would the record be given a 0.00 WPA from pitchers if they replaced verlander. Or even figure what the other starters WPA is and substitute that.

Would be much better than just randomly saying they would be below 500.

 

[Gunzaan]

Oh gawd, this is turning into a stats-fest. Keep that shit on the Cubs board.