Do you feel rookie deals should be longer?

Newskoolbulls

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I hate how rookie contracts are so short. Look at Tyrus for instance, we drafted him in 06 and he already close to being a free agent next season. A guy like Tyrus and many others need a few years to actually produce and when they do they could bolt via free agency. Sure if your good you will get the QO and a team can match however another team can make it hard for you to match. I feel that rookie contracts should be five years than start the QO or something like that. They seem so short.
 

Manic Devourer

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I think rookie deals as it is now is as close to ideal as it gets. It's not too long, and it's not too short. It also protects both the players and the teams.
 

Kush77

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When it comes to Rose and Tyrus you wish they could be, but when it comes to Fizer and Williams, then you'd be screwed.

About 15 years ago team would be able to sign picks to whatever they wanted, before they changed it in the CBA. I remember Glenn Robinson was supposed to be the first 100 million dollar rookie, but that was mostly hype and he didn't get nearly that. I don't remember what it was, but it might of be in the 60-mil range.

At least they made where there's two team option now, so if a guy is a complete bust, you can let him go after just two years. I don't know if any team has done that though.
 

??? ??????

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Kush77 wrote:
When it comes to Rose and Tyrus you wish they could be, but when it comes to Fizer and Williams, then you'd be screwed.

About 15 years ago team would be able to sign picks to whatever they wanted, before they changed it in the CBA. I remember Glenn Robinson was supposed to be the first 100 million dollar rookie, but that was mostly hype and he didn't get nearly that. I don't remember what it was, but it might of be in the 60-mil range.

At least they made where there's two team option now, so if a guy is a complete bust, you can let him go after just two years. I don't know if any team has done that though.

He asked for 13 years, $100 million, and ended up with $68 million and 10 years.
 

Manic Devourer

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In regards to players taking longer to develop, that's a choice that the team makes in drafting players such as Tyrus who was touted as a project coming into the NBA. Why limit a players finacial flexibility by locking him into a long term contract as a rookie? It's not really fair.

Plus, teams have many options and advantages to restrict or tie up their own rookies if they choose to, if anything it's more of a gamble to opposing teams that target players that have team restrictions on them.

Don't fix what's not broke.
 

Newskoolbulls

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Kush77 wrote:
When it comes to Rose and Tyrus you wish they could be, but when it comes to Fizer and Williams, then you'd be screwed.

About 15 years ago team would be able to sign picks to whatever they wanted, before they changed it in the CBA. I remember Glenn Robinson was supposed to be the first 100 million dollar rookie, but that was mostly hype and he didn't get nearly that. I don't remember what it was, but it might of be in the 60-mil range.

At least they made where there's two team option now, so if a guy is a complete bust, you can let him go after just two years. I don't know if any team has done that though.


Wow I dont remember them being like that, if so I like them the way it is now. Also the Thunder released Sene a #10 pick after only two seasons.
 

Kush77

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??? ?????? wrote:
Kush77 wrote:
When it comes to Rose and Tyrus you wish they could be, but when it comes to Fizer and Williams, then you'd be screwed.

About 15 years ago team would be able to sign picks to whatever they wanted, before they changed it in the CBA. I remember Glenn Robinson was supposed to be the first 100 million dollar rookie, but that was mostly hype and he didn't get nearly that. I don't remember what it was, but it might of be in the 60-mil range.

At least they made where there's two team option now, so if a guy is a complete bust, you can let him go after just two years. I don't know if any team has done that though.

He asked for 13 years, $100 million, and ended up with $68 million and 10 years.

You are on top of it my man B)
 

Newskoolbulls

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Not only players who take longer to develop but what about a guy like Oden who was out his first season?
 

Manic Devourer

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Newskoolbulls wrote:
Not only players who take longer to develop but what about a guy like Oden who was out his first season?

Injuries are a part of sports, you can't re-arrange things where the team owners are the only ones that are being protected.
 

dougthonus

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I think the present system is nice for teams, and that players get screwed more times than not. If you made them longer it'd be even worse. Still rookies have no one arguing for them in the CBA negotiations since vets would prefer to keep rookie salary down to give them more money.
 

TyrusRose2425

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dougthonus wrote:
I think the present system is nice for teams, and that players get screwed more times than not. If you made them longer it'd be even worse. Still rookies have no one arguing for them in the CBA negotiations since vets would prefer to keep rookie salary down to give them more money.
+1
 

Morten Jensen

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It's a safe thing for both sides.

If you had the rookie contract at 4 years plus the option of a 5th, then the player would be almost halfway into his career before he gets a big hit. That would suck for the player. It would also be a bad situation if your team spends the first pick on a complete bust and has to pay him $5 million plus for five years before you can decline his option.

Having the '2 and 2' is a good compromise. Teams can decline options on bad players after two years, and the good rookies would automatically get bird rights after three years of service, which means they can earn more from their team than any other. Yes, they have to live with four years. But if it's a succesful rookie, bird rights become much more valuble than the present media and fan speculation make it out to be.

What I the NBA, NBPA and the new CBA should add is a 're-negotiation clause' after two years, assuming the option is picked up for a third season. It should basically give the player and his team a chance to do two things;

A. Increase the remainder of the rookie deal anywhere from 1 to 10% from the third year and onwards.

B. Negotiate an extension that would eliminate the fourth rookie salary year, and instead be replaced by the newly long-term contract. However, teams would be losing out on that deal, so the bonus from their end is an automatic team option in the last two years of the players contract and/or an extra year. Meaning if the player goes into such a negotiation, a 7th year can be added to the contract which cannot be done in restricted free agency or in unrestricted free agency. Only the 're-negotiation clause' can add a 7th year.

It needs some tweeking, but I think it's possible to make it more fair for players, while also not ruining the future financial planning of the team.
 

dougthonus

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Let's be honest, the players will never get a better rookie deal than they have now. The owners and players union aren't going to agree to allow rookies to renegotiate or get any other benefit. If anything, they're going to get an even worse deal.

The owners don't want to pay rookies more because of the uncertainty, and the veterans represented in the players union don't want to pay them more because it takes from their money. Look for the rookie deal to stay the same or get even worse.
 

JustinC5

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dougthonus wrote:
I think the present system is nice for teams, and that players get screwed more times than not. If you made them longer it'd be even worse. Still rookies have no one arguing for them in the CBA negotiations since vets would prefer to keep rookie salary down to give them more money.

I halfway agree with you; Players definitely get screwed or at least the ones that come in right away and produce. Although, I'd guesstimate that in any given year, out of the 30 1st round picks, you may get 1-3 that come in and produce numbers (this year being an anomaly); 5-10 that are solid role players and the rest are busts and/or just don't play. So not as many players get screwed as we think.

As far as the rookies having no one to argue for them in the CBA negotiations... I'm not so sure about that either. When the David Stern first tried to push the whole age limit thing, the player's association was against it. I didn't understand why back then in the previous economic climate - you had current players at risk to losing their jobs to 18-19 year olds. It only affected your 10-12th men, but that's 90 people - and I really don't understand it now. Teams would rather have a rookie contract for 3-4 years than have to pay a vet. Maybe there's a hidden rationale behind it that I'm missing, but it's something I've always wondered.
 

collisrost

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I think the player's association used their opposition to the age limit as a bargaining ploy more than anything. They can claim to be representing the interests of players not yet in the league in order to later give in on those issues while getting what they want elsewhere.
 

dougthonus

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JustinC5 wrote:
I halfway agree with you; Players definitely get screwed or at least the ones that come in right away and produce. Although, I'd guesstimate that in any given year, out of the 30 1st round picks, you may get 1-3 that come in and produce numbers (this year being an anomaly); 5-10 that are solid role players and the rest are busts and/or just don't play. So not as many players get screwed as we think.

Right, but these guys only have 2 guaranteed years on their deals now. I mean that's nothing. If there wasn't a set rookie scale and teams actually had to negotiate with these guys most of them would make WAY more money than they do and get more guaranteed years.

As far as the rookies having no one to argue for them in the CBA negotiations... I'm not so sure about that either. When the David Stern first tried to push the whole age limit thing, the player's association was against it. I didn't understand why back then in the previous economic climate - you had current players at risk to losing their jobs to 18-19 year olds. It only affected your 10-12th men, but that's 90 people - and I really don't understand it now. Teams would rather have a rookie contract for 3-4 years than have to pay a vet. Maybe there's a hidden rationale behind it that I'm missing, but it's something I've always wondered.

Notice that the players union backed out on this.

As Collis points out, the default position when two sides go to the negotiation table is to argue against everything the opposition wants just so you can use it as a ploy to get something you want.
 

JustinC5

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dougthonus wrote:
Right, but these guys only have 2 guaranteed years on their deals now. I mean that's nothing. If there wasn't a set rookie scale and teams actually had to negotiate with these guys most of them would make WAY more money than they do and get more guaranteed years.
[/quote]

You're right, players would make WAY more - just look at the NFL. And like I said before, I do agree that it screws players, but I think it's better for 2-3 guys to get screwed (as a fan), than for 20 guys to be stealing money.
 

CLWolf81

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I would think that they would be ok getting the "most important trophy there is", and that being the President's Trophy. So why not keep AV behind the bench?



Though, I think a 2-yr extension tells me that this is his last hoorah.
 

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