Do you think MLB should consider expanding the 25 man active roster?

beckdawg

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I have for awhile thought about a concept used in the minors of "piggy backing" starters to limit innings on prospects. Essentially you have 2 starters go 4 or so innings each and they both get decent work but cut off probably 2 innings per start and over 20-25 starts that adds up. I've wondered to an extent why this isn't done in the majors given the health concerns on young pitchers and basically came to the conclusion most teams can't do that with only 12(or 13) pitchers.

Anyways that got me to thinking about why we are at 25. 25 is obviously a round number. But I think it's worth considering how the game is different from basically the start of the 90's onward. It was around then that the game became more specialized. You started to get 7th/8th/9th inning guys and more defined roles. Starters last year average roughly 6 innings a start. If we arbitrarily go back to 1985, they roughly averaged 6.1 IP. If we go back to 1975 they roughly averaged 6.2 IP. If we go back to 1965 they averaged close to 7 IP per game. So, it's pretty obvious that starters aren't giving you the same output they used to yet the roster configuration has largely stayed the same with 12-13 pitchers and 12-13 hitters situationally depending.

The obvious question is why change it? I think adding say 2 more active roster slots would free you up some with regard to the bullpen. Take the 2015 cubs for example. Because their bullpen was a mess they have been running a 13 man pitching staff and a 4 man bench most of the year. When you consider one of those tends to be an emergency catcher that really limits your options to pinch hit. In extremely long games you also end up in really weird situations which while fun can see you having positional players pitching and pitchers hitting.

As far as what it changes, I'm not sure that much really. If you keep the 40 man roster static all you're doing is taking some of the complications out of roster shuffle between the 40 man and 25 man roster. It might make "getting to the bullpen" less impactful having 1 or 2 more relievers but again, often times if you do wear a team out they will call a AAA guy up and option a bench player anyways so I'm not sure the impact would be that big. And ultimately, in sept. you can expand your roster to 40 anyways so it just makes the early season a bit more flexible.

On the other hand it would arguably allow some interesting ideas to spring such as piggy backing two fragile starters who have really good stuff. It would also allow you to play around with a 6 man staff. By that i mean essentially keep the same 5 day starter thing we have now but have two young guys pitching say every 7th day or whatever to limit their total innings and possibly give the 1-4 starters an extra day of rest here and there. There's also probably about 100 other ideas that someone smarter than me could figure out. To be honest, I'm surprised MLB teams haven't pushed for this because it in theory makes starting pitching far cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Overall, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. I think it's an interesting approach to the injury plague of pitchers but in some ways I'm a traditionalist.
 

CSF77

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I like how college does it. Friday starter sat starter etc.
So run a 6 man rotation with 1 stable off day. I suggest Monday due to the conflict with Monday night football. Sunday is too prime time to give up.

Never will happen but pitchers would be effectively be 1 per week starters. That would let managers to be able to increase their pitch counts over 120 per game. This lessens the need for bull pens getting over used.

Back in the 70's it was common for teams to have a 5 man pen due to starters being able to go deeper into games. A complete game was not a big deal then. Now it is.

This would be a landscape changing move. Adding 32 more rotation spots league wide.
 

CSF77

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On the 25 man roster. That lets teams be able to protect players from rule V. SO 15 players for injury reserve and protection. I think that is a solid number.

So no 25 is fine. Getting starters to go deeper would reduce the size of the pen. Going from a 7 man pen to a 5 man again then adding 1 starter will give 1 more bench bat.
 

beckdawg

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On the 25 man roster. That lets teams be able to protect players from rule V. SO 15 players for injury reserve and protection. I think that is a solid number.

So no 25 is fine. Getting starters to go deeper would reduce the size of the pen. Going from a 7 man pen to a 5 man again then adding 1 starter will give 1 more bench bat.

I don't think you're going to find teams adding another starter. They tend to like having role defined 7th/8th/9th inning guys and unless you have some sort of hella rubber armed guy 2 more guys for your entire bullpen just isn't enough.

I guess my though process behind this is they are sort of doing this anyways. The cubs called up Wada, Beeler, Richard, and Roach to make 8 starts this year. Granted Wada was more of a #5 when healthy but I think when you factor in starts he's missed the whole ring around the starter gets into what I'm talking about. Like wise Schlitter has been optioned up and down multiple times.

I think it's fair to argue that if they can sort of do it anyways, why change? But I also think it can be sort of unfair to some players that are the 24th or 25th guy on the active roster with options because guess who's going down no matter what they do... Poor Matt Szczur has bounced up and down more times than I can count and with the way the rules are any time he's sent down he can't come back for 15 days IIRC.

Like I said, I'm not 100% it is an amazing idea but I think it has some compelling merits. It seems pretty clear that most teams don't have enough of a bench/bullpen because they are commonly dipping into AAA as needs arrive. Maybe that's by design. The cubs have already lost roach and German and maybe others via waivers. Obviously not huge losses here but other teams thought they were good enough to take a chance so maybe limiting rosters this way had that design in plan.
 

CSF77

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The rules need to be revamped. But I think it will happen in the next collective bargaining.

Still the biggest change has been starters becoming 6 inning pitchers now. Thus the need for 7 man bull pens. Teams are shifting 2 bench spots for 2 pen spots now.

Adding a 26 man would help but owners would have to add at least 500K to payroll. AL teams would hate it due to not needing a big bench in the first place. Bigger bench helps the NL more.

Kinda a cluster **** if they went there.

Now adding to the 40 man would help. Making it a 50 man roster. Would water down the rule V. Not to mention rule V is a opertunity for players to get a shot to make it vs being stuck in a system as injury depth.
 

beckdawg

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Adding a 26 man would help but owners would have to add at least 500K to payroll.

As far as I'm aware, from the moment you appear in the majors you then make the league min. the rest of the year. So that's really not an issue because if you have to bring up anyone they are essentially getting that $500k regardless. I'm not 100% on that. Most of my knowledge of roster workings and minutia comes from playing out of the park series which while very good isn't always accurate to the exact letter of the real world rules.
 

chibears55

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Rosters are already watered down at the end of it because of there being 30 teams..

Hearing that manfred is considering expansion, so that will thin the roster even more with leser talent at the end.....

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brett05

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I like a four man rotation.

BTW, the two starters per game was tried and flopped. See Tony LaRussa. Same guy that flopped with the pitcher batting 8th.
 

beckdawg

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Rosters are already watered down at the end of it because of there being 30 teams..

Hearing that manfred is considering expansion, so that will thin the roster even more with leser talent at the end.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

It's not really thinning anything out. I'm not saying increase the 40 man roster. I'm suggesting just adding more room to the active roster. The point of the 40 man roster is to stop teams from hoarding players. You can pick 40 guys that are safe from the rule 5/FA. So those players exist on the team regardless of this change. All this change does is stop teams from having to do as much DFA'ing of guys like German and Roach as well as stops the cubs from playing musical chairs with Szczur being up and down. He keeps getting sent down because they have to clear a 25 man active roster spot for pitching be it an extra reliever when they get worn down or a 5th starter.
 

beckdawg

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I like a four man rotation.

BTW, the two starters per game was tried and flopped. See Tony LaRussa. Same guy that flopped with the pitcher batting 8th.

Just because he wasn't successful with it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea. Often times all it takes is a tweak and then it's all the rage. Defensive shifts were once a crazy idea.
 

brett05

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Just because he wasn't successful with it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea. Often times all it takes is a tweak and then it's all the rage. Defensive shifts were once a crazy idea.

Shifts have been happening for well over 100 years.
And you are right, it may not be bad. But i put that at a very, very small percentage. To me we baby the pitchers way, way too much. And I understand why, but the arm can take the "beating."
 

beckdawg

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Shifts have been happening for well over 100 years.
And you are right, it may not be bad. But i put that at a very, very small percentage. To me we baby the pitchers way, way too much. And I understand why, but the arm can take the "beating."

Additional roster slots could go to any number of things it wouldn't have to just be pitching. That was just the first thing that came to mind. Hell, they honestly should do what the NFL does with the emergency QB so you only have to have 2 game day QBs. That is to say allow a 26 guy as an emergency C only. That way you could actually pinch hit/run for your C without being super worried. Clearly that's just one idea here.
 

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