Does Civilization Strengthen or Weaken Us As a Species

[supraman]

So I had this thought roll through my brain over the holiday. Does civilization weaken us or strengthen us as a species?



It weakens it due to survival of the fittest not really applying. Almost everyone passes along their genes instead of only the best genes. So sicknesses and genetic defects can get passed down as well.



But civilization also strengthens us due to technological advances that probably would not have happened without society and civilization

 

[LordKOTL]

Well, there are civilizations that culled the sick, weakly, and genetically inferior kids in the past, but they are much derided nowadays of being barbaric. I believe more in passive eugenics in that role and we should just take the warning labels off of anything and give the kids their dangerous toys back.



As a whole, "Civilization" is just an evolution of the human social structure. I think it's more what we do with it rather than "Civilization" itself being good or bad.



And then it begs the question: Since when was humanity ever civilized?

 

[TSD]

Overpopulation is the problem. Kill off about 6 billion or so people and everyone left will be alot happier and we still wouldnt be on the endangered species list.

 

[supraman]

I dunno I think from a Darwinian stand point we are weakening the species. Undesirable genetic qualities are not being bred out.



Think about it, the weak get killed and ate in regards to other animals or it doesn't hunter effectively and starves to death

 

[dlrob315]

Hi, I am Al's friend and I am posting on Al's behalf. Here is what happened to Al when he was thinking of how to respond to this thread.

 

[BigPete]

What makes you think that animals don't have a sense of society?

 

[dlrob315]

What makes you think that animals don't have a sense of society?

Great point BP, they absolutely have a society and their society is much more sustainable than ours. And when their society is in jeopardy it is because we (man) probably were the ones who weakened them as a species.

 

[roshinaya]

I dunno I think from a Darwinian stand point we are weakening the species. Undesirable genetic qualities are not being bred out.



Think about it, the weak get killed and ate in regards to other animals or it doesn't hunter effectively and starves to death

You might want to read this article http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_cult/evolit/s05/web1/mheeney.html and why not the wiki article about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest



It's simply social darwinist bullshit what you are saying.

 

[supraman]

You might want to read this article http://serendip.bryn...b1/mheeney.html and why not the wiki article about it http://en.wikipedia...._of_the_fittest



It's simply social darwinist bullshit what you are saying.

No it isn't. Your article was about something completely different than what I am saying and really boring. But great job of taking an academic debate about nothing (just something that isn't fucking politics or stupid people) and being a dick about it.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I dunno I think from a Darwinian stand point we are weakening the species. Undesirable genetic qualities are not being bred out.



Think about it, the weak get killed and ate in regards to other animals or it doesn't hunter effectively and starves to death

Don't need to breed them out when many can be changed\adjusted\made tolerable after birth....and soon before birth.

 

[supraman]

Don't need to breed them out when many can be changed\adjusted\made tolerable after birth....and soon before birth.

But then you run up against bioethical issues and religious issues with genetic manipulation. Which for the record I'm all for.

 

[roshinaya]

Who is the one making the decision of what is a desirable genetic trait and what isn't? To talk about it in that way is a slippery slope. Civilization has allowed us not to be at the mercy of outside factors such as weather, food and disease that before might have culled those that didn't adapt. It's a moot point to be making now how we are somehow weakening as a species when these "undesirable" traits are not being bred away. Civilizations has allowed those that might have not made it before to have long and fulfilling lives. Civilization had made us not be some barbaric society where the weak, handicapped and old were thrown of the cliff for the "greater good".

 

[supraman]

Who is the one making the decision of what is a desirable genetic trait and what isn't? To talk about it in that way is a slippery slope. Civilization has allowed us not to be at the mercy of outside factors such as weather, food and disease that before might have culled those that didn't adapt. It's a moot point to be making now how we are somehow weakening as a species when these "undesirable" traits are not being bred away. Civilizations has allowed those that might have not made it before to have long and fulfilling lives. Civilization had made us not be some barbaric society where the weak, handicapped and old were thrown of the cliff for the "greater good".

Thank you for backing up what I was saying.

 

[roshinaya]

Yeah, so what's with that silly notion about the species being weakened then? It's moot and unfounded.

 

[supraman]

Yeah, so what's with that silly notion about the species being weakened then? It's moot and unfounded.

They discovered the Fat gene. That little mutation would be forced out rather fast if we had to hunt and were hunted



Its inane debate that you are taking far too seriously. I'm not suggesting the dismantling of civilization so we can become a better species. Its a thought I had and figured it was worth kicking around for something to do on the boards, a change of pace from debate the Occupy movement and which dumbass republican did something stupid today.

 

[roshinaya]

Being fat has also much to do with lifestyle choice and food intake. I am sure the fat gene has always been there, but since back in the hunter gatherer days you were much more active trying to stay alive. And in some cases having an extra layer of lubber on you might even had its advantages.

 

[supraman]

Being fat has also much to do with lifestyle choice and food intake. I am sure the fat gene has always been there, but since back in the hunter gatherer days you were much more active trying to stay alive. And in some cases having an extra layer of lubber on you might even had its advantages.

so are you saying if you were obese for whatever reason it would not be beneficial to survival?

 

[roshinaya]

I am saying that genetics might play a role in obesity, but a far larger role is played by lifestyle and food intake. Back in the day you did not have as much food and you didn't sit around too much either.

 

[supraman]

Not disagreeing but it is safe to say that gene would be much more likely to be bred out if there was no civilization than within a civilization.



My original argument as a species does civilization help or hurt us?



And I can see both sides. On the one side civilizations helps the species spread rapidly and overcome obstacles much easier but at the expense of undesirable traits genetic or otherwise being passed down.

 

[roshinaya]

But I question what is undesirable, who makes that call. Lets put it this way, in my opinion the pros of having a civilization far outweigh the cons of having these supposedly "undesirable" genetic traits being passed on. It could be argued that our ability to even form a civilization is due to evolution. Traits that allowed humans to form societies, reciprocal relationships, planning, abstract thinking and the emergence of language has all to do with the development of the human brain. And in the future we could be able to genetically alter ourselves and the whole notion of "undesirable" traits is pointless. Along with that comes a whole new can of worms as you mentioned with bioethics, but hopefully some day these gene altering technologies would be so ubiquitous and available to anyone who wants them where these bioethical concerns are meaningless. Religious concerns about gene modification I'll just let stand on it's own, since in my opinion it's unnecessary.