Early returns on the Cub's Purge

[Diehardfan]

Only about a third of the way into year one but the players the Cubs moved are not doing very well. There's a ways to go but I don't believe the Cubs would be a whole lot better at this moment had they kept them. Darvish might be the only one that's doing much and he has only been a .500 pitcher. Kimbrell is still not like he was his last season here.

Here are the hitters

 

[Diehardfan]

Hey....look!!! There's another one of those "shit" players the Cubs got back by trading off their veterans. This one is all of 19 years old.


Cubs' Alcantara homers twice on four-hit day

 

[TL1961]

The Cubs got back some good future pieces. They appear to have made the correct decisions on the guys they traded. I'll never understand letting Schwarber walk for nothing, however. And I don't get why they appear determined to rid themselves if Contreras (Though I maintain the pitchers do better when he's not behind the plate. I would try him at 1st.) I just don't see why it has to be all or nothing. Trading Darvish was stupid. It's possible to retool without going through multi year rebuilds where you aren't even competitive. Hopefully they get back in the game this coming offseason and start getting into the FA market again. Some of these youngsters will be up in 2023, many more not too long after (hopefully).

 

[TL1961]

WTF is going on with this board?

 

[Diehardfan]

The Cubs got back some good future pieces. They appear to have made the correct decisions on the guys they traded. I'll never understand letting Schwarber walk for nothing, however. And I don't get why they appear determined to rid themselves if Contreras (Though I maintain the pitchers do better when he's not behind the plate. I would try him at 1st.) I just don't see why it has to be all or nothing. Trading Darvish was stupid. It's possible to retool without going through multi year rebuilds where you aren't even competitive. Hopefully they get back in the game this coming offseason and start getting into the FA market again. Some of these youngsters will be up in 2023, many more not too long after (hopefully).

I loved Schwarber and would've been pleased if he stayed to DH but Darvish? You do know he'll be 36 come August. First, what exactly would be accomplished by keeping him here with this group? By the time the Cubs are relevent again he'll be pushing 40...he's not Tom Brady.

You really need a strong farm system to retool....Cubs certainly wouldn't qualify. They're in better shape now but had next to nothing before they started dumping. I don't like retools anyway....it reeks of Kenny Williams or GarPax. Just delaying the inevitable.

 

[TL1961]

I loved Schwarber and would've been pleased if he stayed to DH but Darvish? You do know he'll be 36 come August. First, what exactly would be accomplished by keeping him here with this group? By the time the Cubs are relevent again he'll be pushing 40...he's not Tom Brady.

You really need a strong farm system to retool....Cubs certainly wouldn't qualify. They're in better shape now but had next to nothing before they started dumping. I don't like retools anyway....it reeks of Kenny Williams or GarPax. Just delaying the inevitable.

Major market teams don't routinely dump talent to the point of being 65-97.

No, I don't want whatever GarPax did. But that's not what I mean by "retooling". The Cubs overtook the Cards and the Brewers had a few years finishing ahead of teh Cards, but here's St. Louis completely redoing their infield and they have gold glove winners in the OF. And that's not even a team considered among the best.

NYY had down years for them, but they don't have losing seasons, and here they are WS contenders the past few years. LAD? They are what the Cubs promised to be. Big Market. Waves of talent. And always in the mix for top FA's.

This is a team that went to a WS and then added Mookie Betts. Won a WS and added Freddie Freeman. etc.

THAT is what the Cubs absolutely could be, and should be.

**** the Ricketts.

 

[DrGonzo]

Yeah the dump had to happen and I guess I am resigned to seeing Contreras go as well. But I hope some of these prospects pan out because the Cubs are appallingly bad this year.

 

[Diehardfan]

The Cardinals and Yankees are clones. They draft and develop well and have to money to buy players when the time is right for it. That is something the Cubs have never been able to do....sure, they draw and have the money but they won too soon with the previous group. They had just started to rebuild a sorry farm system and they decided to trade what they had to win now and try to keep the window for winning open. It was great what they did in 2016 but that cut short the long range plan and turned a franchise that could have been a yearly consistant winner into a team forced to "retool" every year instead of developing young players to replace the older ones because they traded most their good young players away. You think Theo left because he was tired....he left because he didn't feel like doing it all over again. Which is what Hoyer is doing right now. 65-97 or 80-82? Both losers, but 65-97 gets you a chance to draft one of the top 2 or 3 best young players. 80-82 puts you the one place you don't want to be when you're losing....in the middle.

 

[TL1961]

The Cardinals and Yankees are clones. They draft and develop well and have to money to buy players when the time is right for it. That is something the Cubs have never been able to do....sure, they draw and have the money but they won too soon with the previous group. They had just started to rebuild a sorry farm system and they decided to trade what they had to win now and try to keep the window for winning open. It was great what they did in 2016 but that cut short the long range plan and turned a franchise that could have been a yearly consistant winner into a team forced to "retool" every year instead of developing young players to replace the older ones because they traded most their good young players away. You think Theo left because he was tired....he left because he didn't feel like doing it all over again. Which is what Hoyer is doing right now. 65-97 or 80-82? Both losers, but 65-97 gets you a chance to draft one of the top 2 or 3 best young players. 80-82 puts you the one place you don't want to be when you're losing....in the middle.

Believe me, I know 80-82 is No Man's Land.
The Cubs have no business being 65-97 or 80-82.

It's one thing that they traded away some young prospects for "win now" mode. It's quite another that they have no interest in the FA market. The FA market alone is not a long-term solution. We know that. But to just sit idly by?

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, I would much prefer they be 65-97 this year. But not again after this.

 

[knoxville7]

Believe me, I know 80-82 is No Man's Land.
The Cubs have no business being 65-97 or 80-82.

It's one thing that they traded away some young prospects for "win now" mode. It's quite another that they have no interest in the FA market. The FA market alone is not a long-term solution. We know that. But to just sit idly by?

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, I would much prefer they be 65-97 this year. But not again after this.

When did the Cubs sit idly by in FA?

 

[CSF77]

Schwarber and Darvish were offload contracts. COVID had Tommy in a panic and he had Jed do the dirt work after Theo said **** that and walked.

Darvish got a decent return. None are 60 grade talent but some potential starters

Schwarber was sad. Joe couldn't figure how to use him and then he goes and wrecks teams. Goes to show that the Cubs way is not the best way.

Bryant made sense. He was going to get paid and his track record was not supporting the deal. It is still early so I wouldn't make much of this yet.

Rizzo is the guy that they should have paid. He gives more than just a bat. He was the leader of the team and he stabilizes the infield D. Which is a huge deal. The Cubs could have paid him. I'm not going to get deep into the results. AL E is superior talented and far deeper than any NL division. You really can not judge him yet.

Baez is just a matter of time that he goes on fire and all of this is forgotten. That said Nico is the real deal and I really like him at SS.

Now Rizzo is not changing the narrative at all in CHC at all. But he brings a LH bat that takes pitches and can help guide talent. The Cubs basically have nothing in the pipe at 1B.

Now the Sox deal. It is early but Madgral has been a bust. I wouldn't be mad if Morel moves to 2B after the youth starts filling the OF.

 

[knoxville7]

Schwarber and Darvish were offload contracts. COVID had Tommy in a panic and he had Jed do the dirt work after Theo said **** that and walked.

Darvish got a decent return. None are 60 grade talent but some potential starters

Schwarber was sad. Joe couldn't figure how to use him and then he goes and wrecks teams. Goes to show that the Cubs way is not the best way.

Bryant made sense. He was going to get paid and his track record was not supporting the deal. It is still early so I wouldn't make much of this yet.

Rizzo is the guy that they should have paid. He gives more than just a bat. He was the leader of the team and he stabilizes the infield D. Which is a huge deal. The Cubs could have paid him. I'm not going to get deep into the results. AL E is superior talented and far deeper than any NL division. You really can not judge him yet.

Baez is just a matter of time that he goes on fire and all of this is forgotten. That said Nico is the real deal and I really like him at SS.

Now Rizzo is not changing the narrative at all in CHC at all. But he brings a LH bat that takes pitches and can help guide talent. The Cubs basically have nothing in the pipe at 1B.

Now the Sox deal. It is early but Madgral has been a bust. I wouldn't be mad if Morel moves to 2B after the youth starts filling the OF.

Lol your opinions change so damn much, dude.

None of those guys were worth keeping around. Why pay rizzo big money to hang around on a losing Cubs team at age 32. Not to mention he’s hitting .228 this year. Yeah, some LH bat we are missing out on there.

Bryant and Baez are both done, as well.

Cubs did the right thing. Stop the narrative of keeping those guys around

 

[Diehardfan]

I really don't understand why anyone would want to keep any player or sign any player to get a handful more wins. Totally counter productive. If you are rebuilding...do it... don't half-ass it.

 

[CSF77]

Lol your opinions change so damn much, dude.

None of those guys were worth keeping around. Why pay rizzo big money to hang around on a losing Cubs team at age 32. Not to mention he’s hitting .228 this year. Yeah, some LH bat we are missing out on there.

Bryant and Baez are both done, as well.

Cubs did the right thing. Stop the narrative of keeping those guys around

Meh.

What you said addresses nothing about some of the core issues with the team.

They are RH heavy. So Jed signs a RH RF and moves Heyward to CF and makes Ortega the DH.

If you wanted to tank then don't sign and just play Ortega and Heyward. Let Frazier DH.

Jed has made some questionable moves.

Last year Davis moved to RF. Target a plus CF in Crow-Armstrong. Then invest cash into a RF.

It feels a bit off if you really take the time to look at it.

Jed put together a team that was not going to break 70 wins if everything went right. If he would have addressed the base strait. We are signing a few 1 year guys. They will address this year's core lacking. If it doesn't work out as intended we will sell and continue to deepen our infrastructure.

I'm pretty sure that most of the fans would be good with that.

 

[CSF77]

As far as Rizzo is concerned. Cubs have nothing in the pipe at 1B.

Rizzo was not a 20+M player.

He hits LH

And he was the team leader.

Paying him and making Schwindel the everyday DH was very doable. Even if Jed went to him in the off-season and brought him back

Regardless that is a issue going forward and woulda coulda fixes nothing. I've said Bell for a while. Core LH hitter. Changes the dynamic of the line up for next year and Jed can focus on building around him via the farm.

 

[Probie2429]

Cubs made the right move to trade all of them. The elephant in the room was that Theo couldn’t deliver any young pitching through the draft in nearly a decade and that’s why the team fell apart towards the end. If you had a steady influx of arms that takes pressure off FA as well as gives you assets to move to fill other holes. This is how the Cardinals have remained competitive over the years and hence why they kept Molina around to be their clubhouse leader because they could afford to. In the Cubs’ case, as good as of a leader Rizzo is without any long-term momentum to remain competitive it was better to flip him for assets, clear salary, and get worse in the process. Remember trading your own guys is nothing more than a supplement to a rebuild. You need to hit on your own picks for any of it to matter and the Cubs should stack a couple years of top 5 picks going forward.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

People want to compare us to big market teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and how they always spend.

The issue is that they are spending because they have always had a farm system that was still good even after their players came up. And the players that came up didn't massively regress.

In the Cubs situation, and maybe even the White Sox, both teams had zero farm system after their best ones were called up. This makes it completely different from the Dodgers and the Yankees. We would have been spending to go from a sub .500 team to a .500 team.

So had our players not regressed and we played over .500, and we also hit in the playoffs, then I could see the argument for spending big money every year. But these things just didn't happen. The comps to the Yankees and Dodgers just don't work.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

People want to compare us to big market teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and how they always spend.

The issue is that they are spending because they have always had a farm system that was still good even after their players came up. And the players that came up didn't massively regress.

In the Cubs situation, and maybe even the White Sox, both teams had zero farm system after their best ones were called up. This makes it completely different from the Dodgers and the Yankees. We would have been spending to go from a sub .500 team to a .500 team.

So had our players not regressed and we played over .500, and we also hit in the playoffs, then I could see the argument for spending big money every year. But these things just didn't happen. The comps to the Yankees and Dodgers just don't work.

Yankees had a nice stretch in the 2000's where their farm system was fucking awful. They spent like crazy because they had to to be able to put out a competitive squad.

The dodgers have an incredible minor league system that never seems to lose depth somehow. They spend to supplement that and trade from that depth to add missing pieces. What the dodgers manage to do with their minors is an outlier and idk how they could be so vastly superior at scouting to everybody else.

 

[Diehardfan]

Yankees had a nice stretch in the 2000's where their farm system was fucking awful. They spent like crazy because they had to to be able to put out a competitive squad.

The dodgers have an incredible minor league system that never seems to lose depth somehow. They spend to supplement that and trade from that depth to add missing pieces. What the dodgers manage to do with their minors is an outlier and idk how they could be so vastly superior at scouting to everybody else.

Yeah, that's really what it's all about. Great scouts.....huge unsung heros. While the GM's get the credit, the scouts are doing the dirty work and uncovering the gems. That's how teams like the Dodgers, the Cards and more recently...the Giants....can trade off young players at the deadline for help and still have others waiting to make the big league jump. You gotta be lucky too, but great scouts are worth their weight in gold.

 

[TL1961]

People want to compare us to big market teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and how they always spend.

The issue is that they are spending because they have always had a farm system that was still good even after their players came up. And the players that came up didn't massively regress.

In the Cubs situation, and maybe even the White Sox, both teams had zero farm system after their best ones were called up. This makes it completely different from the Dodgers and the Yankees. We would have been spending to go from a sub .500 team to a .500 team.

So had our players not regressed and we played over .500, and we also hit in the playoffs, then I could see the argument for spending big money every year. But these things just didn't happen. The comps to the Yankees and Dodgers just don't work.

People are comparing the Cubs situation and opportunities to those of the Dodgers and Yankees. They have a very loyal fan base they charge the highest prices in baseball and they have their own TV network .
They own a hotel at Wrigley, and much of the neighborhood around Wrigley Field.

The comparison to the Dodgers and the Yankees is that they have the opportunity and the wherewithal that they should have a comparable organization, not that they do.