Fred, this has gone too far! I CHALLANGE YOU!

[mlewinth]

Ok, this is it. Fred, I am personally challenging you. After just speaking to you on the phone, I know that you are nothing more then a Victimized Gordonloving Hater. You are full of anger and my point....is that you have no point.

It is time for an intervention. I want to do a podcast with you..mono y mono. I want to represent the good people of this website. People like Clonetrooper265, people like Doug Thonus. People, who like me, think its time for you to get off your soap box and SHUT UP!

You have said that you are done talking about Gordon, but your not. You keep talking about it. Poor Clonetrooper was trying to make some good logical arguments, but she didnt realize that she wasnt aruging with a logical human being, she was arguing with a monster. It's time to shut you up!

Let's duke it out on a cast once and for all...Topic: Is Fred Completely Full of Shit.

Thoughts?

 

[Fred]

mlewinth wrote:

Ok, this is it. Fred, I am personally challenging you. After just speaking to you on the phone, I know that you are nothing more then a Victimized Gordonloving Hater. You are full of anger and my point....is that you have no point.

It is time for an intervention. I want to do a podcast with you..mono y mono. I want to represent the good people of this website. People like Clonetrooper265, people like Doug Thonus. People, who like me, think its time for you to get off your soap box and SHUT UP!

You have said that you are done talking about Gordon, but your not. You keep talking about it. Poor Clonetrooper was trying to make some good logical arguments, but she didnt realize that she wasnt aruging with a logical human being, she was arguing with a monster. It's time to shut you up!

Let's duke it out on a cast once and for all...Topic: Is Fred Completely Full of Shit.

Thoughts?

It's 80 today in Chicago. Nice and Sunny, and I've officially retired from Gordon talk. Maybe someone else can carry the torch for BG. I'll give you my thoughts when he walks this summer.

But if you want to debate, I'm open for some Aaron Grey talk. Let's debate, "Who brings more to the table, Grey or Linton Johnson?" I say Grey, but I'm sure you'll say I'm full of sh*t.

 

[mlewinth]

This isint about Gordon. This is about how you argue. Here are some keys:

1) There are no such things as "drones" who support Hinrich and hate on Gordon anymore, they are all in your imagination

2)There is no one arguing that Gordon shouldnt be on this team. Only that he is not a star.

3) Gordon isint "BATMAN" OR "ROBIN"...he's more Alfred or Commissioner Gordon

4) Gordon never has 2 monster games in a row......NEVER

5) Fred is about as good of a debater as Ross Perot

 

[mlewinth]

This proves to me that you do not want to debate. You would prefer to attack people in a forum where you can bark without anyone barking back. We all know that you do not really consider other peoples post, your too busy sitting on your soap box! Well the soap box is empty *****!

 

[TheStig]

Can you guys get a room already?

 

[Morten Jensen]

mlewinth wrote:

3) Gordon isint "BATMAN" OR "ROBIN"...he's more Alfred or Commissioner Gordon

4) Gordon never has 2 monster games in a row......NEVER

A few things, and I'll let you girls get back to business.

3. Batman is obviously numero uno, which means that role is Derrick Rose. But I don't see for a second why Gordon isn't worthy of a Robin role/status. His play would make him the 2nd best player on a lot of playoff teams. His high efficiency is too often ignored when discussing his capabilities. Calling him Alfred or Commissioner Gordon is just not accurate. At the very least, he's Batgirl.

4. Define monster game. Because I could honestly care less if we're talking about 40 point performances. He's one of the most consistent players on our roster and has been so for a long time. Over his career, he has several long stretches of consecutive 20+ point games on remarkable shooting percentages. So I wouldn't say 'never' - Especially as it seems like it's an attack on his consistency.

 

[Fred]

mlewinth wrote:

This proves to me that you do not want to debate.

What have we been doing since we started this podcast? I don't want to debate? Go back and check out the shows we did last June....you know, the ones where you predicted the Lakers would romp and Kobe was better than Jordan....I disagreed and debated your points.

 

[Rerisen]

The Bullseye podcasts wouldn't be the same without Fred going into volcano mode about 'the Drones'. No matter how many there are or aren't out there, it's hilarious. :lol:

 

[Hendu0520]

It might be different in Chicago but every where else in the country has mad love for Ben Gordon. But he can't be the best player on a great team, if Derrick Rose can improve like he should over the summer there should be no problem having Ben come back. For the past few years he has been our best but next year Rose should be so the Bulls should resign him. I also think the drone rants are funny.

 

[engies]

Even though Fred may explode sometimes about Ben Gordon, I think he has a right to considering the disrespect he receives on numerous "drone" radio & TV shows, as well as newspapers and some unappreciative Bulls fans

Ben's been unfairly labeled as many things, such as "he is just a 6th man" "he isn't a star" "he isnt a starter on a winning team" "he is a bad defender" when time & time again this has been proven to be not true.

I'm not saying Ben Gordon is god, or that Ben is the best "Robin" ever, but he does cop plenty of unfair criticism & disrespect. Even Chicago's own announcer Dumb Funk manages to squeeze in little jabs & cheap shots at Ben.

If you'd rather have Kirk Hinrich starting at the 2 than Ben Gordon, good luck. Kirk may be a way better PG, but with Rose do we need that?, baring a major injury the obvious answer is no! We need someone who can be relied to nail the open outside 3pt and take the pressure and scoring load on the perimeter off Rose.

& you can't say "well he isnt consistent enough" because we can go through the game logs of his career and see that over time & especially this season he has become very consistent. And even so do you want to put those game logs next to Captain Kirk's? because Kirk is not nearly as reliable or consistent, & that's what we need right now. Kirk's a good PG & deserves better than to play spot minutes behind Rose, but he just isn't reliable in terms of his shooting to play SG besides Rose.

Defensively Ben has improved and what he lacks in his height he makes up with his strength, competitiveness & determination. Besides, regardless of the defender, players like Kobe & Wade are just going to be a problem for EVERY SG IN THE LEAGUE. & when players like Ray Allen get hot and hit contested jumpers with even a player the size of Noah in their faces, its not going to make a difference whether Ben is guarding or Bruce Bowen is.

Anyway a lot of this has already been argued to death not only on Bulls eye but the other podcasts. If Ben leaves (which seems to be likely) you will see what happens when this team is stuck in limbo (baring a trade for Bosh or a star of Bosh...or even Ben's calibre)

I wouldn't mind Fred & you going at it for one entire episode one last time just to put it to rest for good. Certainly would be entertaining.

EDIT: I must add that
1) I'm not a Kirk hater, I think he is a good starting PG, just not good starting SG
2) I find Doug & Kush's logic and podcasts in which they discuss the advantages & disadvantages of keeping Ben more balanced
3) I love it when you explode, lash out & insult idiotic emailers like the one mentioned in your latest podecasts EXTREMELY FUNNY & somewhat deserved. I say keep it up

 

[Riker]

Greetings from sunny distant Croatia (you know, Toni Kukoc)

I've been listening to Fred's podcast (my favorite podcast) for 2 years now.


And so far, I agreed on 99,9% of points he made. And seeing that he officially retired from defending Ben Gordon (or, as I like to call him, Ben Jordan, or Air Gordon, depends in what mood am I) I think I'll have to step into this.

I hope I don't turn out to be Pete Myers of defending BG (although Pete was my idol for brief few seconds in 1994 season when Clay called him out)
:cheer:

But seriously, the amount of disrespect that Gordon gets went from cute, to annoying, to frustrating.

I follow couple other forums, and unfortunately, not only that people there are all prime NBA experts, future GM's and HOF coaches in disguise, but they all have one thing in common. None of them couldn't care less about Gordons situation in Chicago.

They say he's;

- weak on D
- inconsistent
- greedy (LOL)
- random

Talk about frivolous comments.

Generally, theres a sudden emerge of short-memory fans in the NBA virtual fan world.

We have already people that are christening LeStern James (sorry can't help it) as the greatest player all time, Kobe on par with MJ etc etc.
Well, I acutally can understand those points - I mean, ever since MJ left, NBA is sinking in ratings, nobody really cares about it other than always fanatical Chinese fans, ratings are lower than ever, games are soft, rules are soft, and generally, apart from 15-20 superior basketball players in the league, it's not worthy watching.

So I understand all the hyping, witnessing, and other farcical campaigning to spark interest NBA once had worldwide.


Same applies to Bulls, Hinrich and Gordon case. Senile fans, fans that aren't really a fans, I call them YouTube fans, because that's the only way they watch sports, and everything older than 3 months is "way back" or "old school", those fans are really loud, to a point where I surf on my favorite websites to read some news on my favorite team and those comments are poking me right in my eye.

Hinrich is praised like he's the next Mookie Blaylock + Gary Payton + Isiah Thomas.

Hinrich is possibly the greatest defender amongst point guards since the dawn of men, and yes, it really would be unbelievable loss for the Bulls to lose him. He brings so much good defense on the court, it's flabbergasting.

Don't get me wrong - he IS a solid player, but in a team that has young phenom like Rose - I think Hinrich fans should really put their emotions aside and deal with the fact he has to be the 6th player. Or 7th. He can't carry the offensive load on the 2 spot for more than 1 game, and we know he has nothing to do on the point guard spot if Rose is healthy.

But imagine the options if Bulls could get rid of him and Deng. Imagine the vast possibilities. The cap space...the free cap space after releasing those two would be....amazing.

Releasing Gordon is releasing 20 points. Please tell me who is going to make up for those 20 points? Salmons? You mean this 30% field goal Salmons?

If we force Rose to take 25 shots a game we will ruin all hopes of him evolving into true superstar. If we let Rose carry the offense we'll wind up with another Marbury. Rose can score and he will improve his shot but he's not the player to score 30 a game.

So who's left? Hinrich? He never went past 16 points in his life. Deng? Even if he actually gets his act together and gets to score 25 a game, which would be a miracle equal to ending this recession, he would still get injured for 40% of the season or more, so what's the use?

Thomas? Noah? Deal with it. I don't know what Gordon did to you, was he rude to you sometime or steal your lunch packet, whatever it was, get over it. Because we all know, we wouldn't be in the playoffs if BG wasn't on this team.

It's mind blowing how underrated he is.

Cheers!

 

[Hendu0520]

Well just to let everyone know both Kirk and Ben are underrated, most NBA fans don't even pay attention to the Bulls, unless its a Tyrus dunk or block or now that Rose is on the team. Blogs are not the only fan forums, most basketball fans don't blog, they don't even have computers. Go to the barber shop and you'll hear how great Ben Gordon is and you'll hear nothing about Kirk. Ben is labled as a scorer because that's his best thing. So on the streets you hear about Gordon more because people all want to watch a shooter, he is more entertaining. I have to fight off people who are telling me that Steve Blake is better than Hinrich, they are out of their minds. With Rose being picked it changes Kirk's situation, unfortunately he is too good to sit on the bench (and makes too much) but not good enough to play on this team. Kirk's love comes from those 3 years when he was the leader of this team and seemed to keep Ben and Deng in line. But I've heard numerous arguments the past few years saying Deng was the best, or Kirk, or Ben. This year it is obvious that Ben is the best player on the team with Rose battling him and taking him over towards the end. But out of the 3 core guys Ben is now the only one producing for the team.

 

[Hendu0520]

Oh and in the past 2 years I haven't ever heard one person try to say that Kirk is better than Ben. This seems to be only a blog argument.

 

[st. park]

I'm a long time listener to all three of the podcasts and enjoy each of them very much. One of the reasons why I enjoy the podcasts so much is that I can actually listen to guys objectively talk about Ben's game. I loved Fred's enthusiasm when he spoke of Ben Gordon and am regretful to hear that he'll no longer be crusading for him. Does Fred talk about Ben too much? That's debatable.. but when all I hear from the major Chicago media outlets is criticism about Ben's game, well I really don't mind that he's actually getting some love here.