Gordon's Final Second Shot Selection

[mlewinth]

Has anyone else besides me been annoyed with Ben Gordon's final second shot selection in this series? He never try's to go to the basket at all and has had more then enough time to do so on multiple occasions. If Gordon wasn't an idiot and tried to draw a little contact, we could have won this series and had alot less mileage on our legs, from all those OTs! In the fourth quarters of both of the last 2 games he took a wild final second shot that air balled. He has made one this whole series, besides that he has blown alot of opportunities.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

egh I can live with those shots. With all those shots he has made he gets the ok to take those kinds of shots to win the game.

 

[J-Mart]

Can we pull the he is injured excuse?

Seriously though you are judging him based on two games he was injured and wasn't playing particularly well. Salmons also wasn't able to drive to the hoop earlier in the series and at the end of the season with his injury also. Not trying to make excuses for him, but there is no doubt it is a factor.

There has been bad decision making and unclutch plays by all the players in a lot of these games at critical moments. No need to single out Gordon.

 

[sdeezy]

I was actually thinking of making a thread similar to this. As much as i love him, BG's shot selection make me cringe. He has a knack for hitting difficult contested shots but he falls in love with that ability and takes some terrible shots. I just wish Gordon could be like Ray Allen was back in Seattle or even now with Boston. As good a jumpshooter as Ray is, you would think he would take more chances but you rarely see him take the knucklehead shots that Ben takes at least 4 times every game.

Gordon has some major tunnel vision issues. There are certain possessions where he gets the ball and you're assured he's going to shoot it no matter what. Game 5 was a clear example..dude took about nine shots in the 1st 4 mins, most of which were difficult ones. Doug Collins got on his case for that. I just want him to see the floor more and just not make his mind up about shooting fadeaway J's even though he's proven he can make them.

 

[mlewinth]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

egh I can live with those shots. With all those shots he has made he gets the ok to take those kinds of shots to win the game.

Has he made alot of them? Yes. HOWEVER, there is a right way to play basketball and a wrong way. In my opinion if a game is tied or your down 1-2 points, you go for the easy shot. As great of a 3pt shooter as BG is, he is a MUCH better free throw shooter (as is 100% of the rest of the league) and though he has made some breathtaking plays, coulda won a few more games this year if he didnt try to be SuperBen.

 

[Rose1]

How ever made that play up should be slapped. You can't have Gordon running iso to the right. I just think if you give Gordon space he makes the shot automatically. 7 times out of 10 he makes the shot. Good defense for the Celtics and bad execution for us on offense. I noticed their plays look so advanced than ours do.

 

[Diddy1122]

mlewinth wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

egh I can live with those shots. With all those shots he has made he gets the ok to take those kinds of shots to win the game.

Has he made alot of them? Yes. HOWEVER, there is a right way to play basketball and a wrong way. In my opinion if a game is tied or your down 1-2 points, you go for the easy shot. As great of a 3pt shooter as BG is, he is a MUCH better free throw shooter (as is 100% of the rest of the league) and though he has made some breathtaking plays, coulda won a few more games this year if he didnt try to be SuperBen.

I agree Mark that he gets himself into bad situations sometimes on final shots, but honestly who else is gona take it? They give the ball to BG at the end and let him do his thing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. As Newskool said you gotta live with it. That's what Ben is.


As for the play last night, I could tell BG was hurting because if he was healthy, he woulda cut back to the left as Pierce was out of position and drained a 20 footer from the top of the key, instead of fading to the corner and doing Pierce a favor.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

He fades away to much on final second shots thats my only issue. If he would just stay at the top of the key and try to get some space and launch a 3 he would make it. Him fading makes it so difficult.

 

[TheStig]

I really don't see BG getting a call at the buzzer so the shots aren't bad but I prefer something with shooters and Derrick Rose going to the basket. He can get by his man and avoid the contact to make a basket or pass out to a shooter.

 

[??? ??????]

The one in game 5 was a pretty good attempt I thought. The Game 6 one was bad, but I think that had more to do with Gordon rushing the shot and not getting proper arc on it, than the actual look.

I'd like if we tried to run Gordon off a ton of screens to create a catch and shoot situation at the end of these games.

 

[Rerisen]

"Draw some contact" at the end of games is terribly overrated.

Unless maybe you have Dwyane Wade or LeBron, you are not going to get a call even if you do get contact. Haven't we seen enough last second plays drawn up for Rose this year (maybe a dozen?) where he drove into the lane to get contact and merely ran into 3 or 4 guys, sometimes got contact and sometimes didn't, but pretty much every time got no call and ended up with a very very tough shot, none of which went in.

Ben can make some overly difficult attempts at the end of games, but he is also quick enough and able enough to get fairly clean looks as well. And if he creates a open decent type look, then I would probably take my chances with that over Rose or Gordon driving into a crowd of people where they won't get a call and have to throw up some kind of prayer while they are being bumped and bodied.

An opponent almost has to do what Rondo did to Miller, slap him upset the head, as in a flagrant to even get a common personal foul called in that situation.

 

[Shakes]

The shots have mostly been from timeouts. You can only assume the players are running what Vinny has drawn up. Complain about Vinny not Ben if you have a problem with it.

 

[Fred]

Shakes wrote:

The shots have mostly been from timeouts. You can only assume the players are running what Vinny has drawn up. Complain about Vinny not Ben if you have a problem with it.

Bingo Shakes.

Game 1: 10 points in the final 5 minutes. I didn't see anything wrong with the shot selection since he made all of them in the final 5 minutes.
Game 2: There is no such thing as bad shot selection when everything goes in.
Game 3: He didn’t shoot enough.
Game 4: He hit a shot to give us the lead with 30 seconds left. Rose took the exact same shot at the end of regulation. He missed it. He hit the 3 in OT to save the series. Bad shot selection?
Game 5: Vinny asked for him to shoot the game winner in regulation. He missed. He scored most of our points in OT. We’re down 3, he attempts a 3, he gets fouled, he hits 3 free throws. On the last play, he’s doubled by 2 guys (because he’s taken and hit so many of these shots that you are complaining about). Miller is therefore wide open, he misses the layup and both free throws.
Game 6: No doubt, Bad shot to end the game in reg. But Vinny asked him to shoot it, and it’s not like he hasn’t made that fallaway before (Toronto game comes to mind, Game 2 vs. the Celtics). Why do you think he's going to get a foul call by taking it to the rack in that game-ending situation?

But you’re right, next time, let’s try and get a better shot. We should draw up something with a better percentage…you know, like an uncontested layup for Kirk Hinrich or Brad.

 

[dougthonus]

Rerisen wrote:

"Draw some contact" at the end of games is terribly overrated.

Unless maybe you have Dwyane Wade or LeBron, you are not going to get a call even if you do get contact. Haven't we seen enough last second plays drawn up for Rose this year (maybe a dozen?) where he drove into the lane to get contact and merely ran into 3 or 4 guys, sometimes got contact and sometimes didn't, but pretty much every time got no call and ended up with a very very tough shot, none of which went in.

Ben can make some overly difficult attempts at the end of games, but he is also quick enough and able enough to get fairly clean looks as well. And if he creates a open decent type look, then I would probably take my chances with that over Rose or Gordon driving into a crowd of people where they won't get a call and have to throw up some kind of prayer while they are being bumped and bodied.

An opponent almost has to do what Rondo did to Miller, slap him upset the head, as in a flagrant to even get a common personal foul called in that situation.

+1000.

I want to smack Collins upside the head when he keeps talking about how hte Bulls should get something going to the basket so the refs will blow the whistle.

Doug, they didn't blow the whistle the rest of the game, why would you expect them to blow it in a critical moment when they are more disinclined to blow it than normal?

 

[ZombieKevie]

it must be really difficult to drive to the basket when ur dribbling the ball off ur foot every time

 

[clonetrooper264]

ZombieKevie wrote:

it must be really difficult to drive to the basket when ur dribbling the ball off ur foot every time

Fred is going to explode when he reads this...

 

[mlewinth]

dougthonus wrote:

Rerisen wrote:

+1000.

I want to smack Collins upside the head when he keeps talking about how hte Bulls should get something going to the basket so the refs will blow the whistle.

Doug, they didn't blow the whistle the rest of the game, why would you expect them to blow it in a critical moment when they are more disinclined to blow it than normal?

That is just 100% wrong. The fact is many tight games in the leage end on players getting fouled while going to the hoop. You obviously try to take a decent shot, while going to the hoop, but between the higher percentage shot and the chance of drawing contact, your odds of winning increase significantly.

 

[Diddy1122]

mlewinth wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

Rerisen wrote:
[quote
+1000.

I want to smack Collins upside the head when he keeps talking about how hte Bulls should get something going to the basket so the refs will blow the whistle.

Doug, they didn't blow the whistle the rest of the game, why would you expect them to blow it in a critical moment when they are more disinclined to blow it than normal?

That is just 100% wrong. The fact is many tight games in the leage end on players getting fouled while going to the hoop. You obviously try to take a decent shot, while going to the hoop, but between the higher percentage shot and the chance of drawing contact, your odds of winning increase significantly.

True there are games that end that way, but more often than not contact is let go in the final seconds because refs don't want to determine the outcome of the game. They usually just let the players play.

I just want to see the Bulls run a decoy play for once with BG. And get the ball to Rose or Salmons, or hell Noah cutting to the hoop. Everyone knows BG gets the ball in the final seconds. We need to change things up so the D can't just load up on him everytime.

 

[dougthonus]

That is just 100% wrong. The fact is many tight games in the leage end on players getting fouled while going to the hoop. You obviously try to take a decent shot, while going to the hoop, but between the higher percentage shot and the chance of drawing contact, your odds of winning increase significantly.

My statement is certainly not 100% wrong. My statement was expecting the refs to bail you out as a reason to take the ball to the hoop at the end of the game is idiotic. The refs are less likely to call a foul in that situation, and our guys don't get calls there typically.

If you can get a higher percentage look at the basket rather than as a jumper then of course you do so, but the idea that you'd get a higher percentage at the basket automatically isn't necessarily true. Especially when you only have a couple seconds and don't have a lot of time to generate something.

 

[dougthonus]

I just want to see the Bulls run a decoy play for once with BG. And get the ball to Rose or Salmons, or hell Noah cutting to the hoop. Everyone knows BG gets the ball in the final seconds. We need to change things up so the D can't just load up on him everytime.

Well you saw one in game 5 and in game 6 where we had the ball in Miller's hands cutting to the basket and the ball in Hinrich's in game 6. Neither play worked out too well for us, but both were nice play calls that generated really good looks. Miller certainly got screwed out of his play by getting smashed in the face while Hinrich's shot should have been a goal tend.