Have the last few weeks vindicated Pace?

[bamainatlanta]

the Packers are better than us but, interestingly, here are the powerhouses that they've beat in three of the last four weeks...


Philly
Detroit
Carolina


This year they also beat...

San Fran
Jacksonville
Minn
Houston
Atlanta
Detroit


And lost to...

Minn

I dont get your point.

 

[Rise]

To me it just solidifies how horrible Pace is. Let’s review what the last few weeks have shown us.

1. Floyd should have been kept, instead we have ole led foot Quinn.
2. Kwiatkowski should have been kept instead we have old has been Danny.

Those 2 moves and all of a sudden an old defense is young and on the way up.

Now for the offense.

1. Sold low on Shaheen and then had to use a 2nd to replace him. Graham signing worked out this year.
2. Extended Cohen who is horrible.
3. ignored the oline. I will give him credit for finding mustipher, seems like lightning in a bottle so far.
4. Traded draft assets and locked in Foles to a multi year deal.

So because of these moves we can’t keep Robinson and Trubisky. I’d rather have both of these guys over anyone mentioned above, even the ones who were not signed.

This is just this year. I haven’t even touched on Floyd over tunsil, white over gurley, Trubisky over Watson/mahomes etc.

He is horrible and needs to be fired today.

 

[Hutch1975]

I've mentioned it before, but I always get called out for being a "homer".

Pace, compared to his peers, has done a good job in the draft and FA.

His main misses, and why he deserved to be fired before this recent streak, was because he missed on mitch and hired nagy.

Now that the team is playing better, he obviously stays.

The guy has been as good as any GM in the league from day 2 on. Sure, he's been terrible in the first round, but has he really? If floyd keeps up his good play that would be 2/4 hits. That goes with league average.

Kevin White was a miss - albeit not for talent, but for injury reasons. Trubisky, on the other hand, I would dispute as a "miss."

Like Leonard Floyd, I think too many Bears fans are damning him for what he isn't (to wit, Mahomes), than appreciating him for what he is. Of the nine non-Mahomes QBs drafted from 2015-2018, the only ones clearly better than him are Goff, Watson, and Mayfield. Trubisky's not been a bad quarterback, if you ask me. The problem being, he was not only a #2 overall pick, but the Bears traded up for him.

Pace has notched some big steals:
Adrian Amos, Jordan Howard, Nick Kwitkowski, Deon Bush, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen, Bilal Nichols, Javon Wims, and Darnell Moody are all fourth-round or later picks who make significant contributions. Jackson's an all-Pro (and I suspect this year, he is really missing Goldman providing pressure up the middle). Cohen was a game-breaker before his knee injury. Amos, Howard, and Kwitkowski were all solid starters at worst. Nichols could be a decent DL option at one end. Wims is intriguing as a WR option.

Where Pace has missed badly is in the extensions/free agent side, and there I think he needs to be reined in, and be told ot focus on retaining talent as a first option as opposed to seeking upgrades. He should have extended Floyd, Amos, and Kwitkowski. He instead let them walk, and what he signed wasn't as good.

The Jordan Howard trade looked bad at first, but Da Bears got Mooney with a pick they ultimately acquired with the return from that deal.

 

[thenewguy]

They key is, can he continue to improve the team from here, or has he hit his ceiling as a GM?

It’s one thing to take a dumpster fire and make it respectable. Quite another to take respectable and make it elite...and them keep it there.

I think this is the most important question. But who in the Bears org is deciding that?

I think the other point to consider is the replacement to Pace may be worse than Pace. In fact, I think it's more likely than not that the replacement is a step back. Unless they can find an experienced GM that has a history of finishing a roster. I don't know exactly who that is, but I don't like the idea of going to an inexperienced GM.

Pace is a good talent evaluator - I'd argue one of the better in the league, and I think we are seeing the offensive talent on this roster is better than we knew. The head coach has been a big part of the problem, but that is a Pace hire. I think it's a tough decision. I don't think I'd let him hire another head coach at this point, so keep them all or get rid of them all.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

To me it just solidifies how horrible Pace is. Let’s review what the last few weeks have shown us.

1. Floyd should have been kept, instead we have ole led foot Quinn.
2. Kwiatkowski should have been kept instead we have old has been Danny.

Those 2 moves and all of a sudden an old defense is young and on the way up.

Now for the offense.

1. Sold low on Shaheen and then had to use a 2nd to replace him. Graham signing worked out this year.
2. Extended Cohen who is horrible.
3. ignored the oline. I will give him credit for finding mustipher, seems like lightning in a bottle so far.
4. Traded draft assets and locked in Foles to a multi year deal.

So because of these moves we can’t keep Robinson and Trubisky. I’d rather have both of these guys over anyone mentioned above, even the ones who were not signed.

This is just this year. I haven’t even touched on Floyd over tunsil, white over gurley, Trubisky over Watson/mahomes etc.

He is horrible and needs to be fired today.

Player evals only come in to play if they benefit Pace @msadows right?

 

[JUSTFINGWIN]

Pace has proven he can hit on some talent in the mids but needs to learn and do better in the 1-2s. I’m more suspicious of Nagy and what exactly he brings to the table besides salesmanship. Pace needs to let his nuts drop and smack Nagy around a lil bit.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Vindicated...... ???

Horrible fucking post OP. Just terrible. Wake me when a Pace GMd team wins a few games in the playoffs and then I’ll pay attention.

 

[BrunoTheRed]

Player evals only come in to play if they benefit Pace @msadows right?

Is a GM allowed to grow? Or must they be great from the get go, and if they aren't the second coming of Vainisi they need to be tossed?

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Is a GM allowed to grow? Or must they be great from the get go, and if they aren't the second coming of Vainisi they need to be tossed?

He’s had FIVE years. I get your point. But again.... FIVE years.

 

[thenewguy]

Pace has proven he can hit on some talent in the mids but needs to learn and do better in the 1-2s. I’m more suspicious of Nagy and what exactly he brings to the table besides salesmanship. Pace needs to let his nuts drop and smack Nagy around a lil bit.

Pace has drafted Goldman, Whitehair, Daniels, Kmet, and Jaylon Johnson in the 2nd. Shaheen was definitely a miss and Miller is bad, but not a useless pick. That's good for a second round.

First has been rougher for sure, but let's not forget the Bears have Mack as part of that too.

 

[HSBOB]

IMO,the last few weeks might have vindicated Pace if.......
He didn't draft a guy with a broken leg with his first #1 pick here.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a QB that we saw again yesterday barely belongs in the league.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a kicker who continues to prove he sucks for the Browns and not only cost the team a first round buy.........he ended up costing the team the game he forced them to play too.
If he didn't ridiculously spend assets to move up so he could draft a QB who was slotted mid round at best while passing on two future greats. This decision has and will continue to hamper the team for years and years.
Mack's a difference maker(most of the time)but those missed 1st and 2nd round picks will leave a mark too. If you're gonna make a player the highest paid at his position,why not pick that player up on the FA market instead of paying the money AND parting with picks on top of it.
If he didn't throw another ridiculous deal at a QB who's mediocre at best and that's only when he's healthy.
If he didn't throw more stupid money at a pass rusher Dallas had no further use for. I dunno but every time I watch the Rams,I see Floyd make more plays in that game alone than this Quinn guy's made all year.
The last few opponents haven't exploited the O-line which Pace has all but ignored but good teams will.
And then we have the team's best receiver by a mile and a half about to go FA because Pace has waisted the necessary money to sign him or just doesn't want to.
He's also the visionary who hired the offensive genius who's seen his OC greatly outperform him at calling plays.
It'll take a trip to the conference finals to vindicate Pace IMO.........at least!

 

[JUSTFINGWIN]

Pace has drafted Goldman, Whitehair, Daniels, Kmet, and Jaylon Johnson in the 2nd. Shaheen was definitely a miss and Miller is bad, but not a useless pick. That's good for a second round.

First has been rougher for sure, but let's not forget the Bears have Mack as part of that too.

Good points...I also think he just needs to let the draft fall to him rather then getting overly aggressive and causing us draft capital.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Is a GM allowed to grow? Or must they be great from the get go, and if they aren't the second coming of Vainisi they need to be tossed?

Chicago Bears

2015-2020

42

53

NO. Not at his salary, hell no.

 

[BrunoTheRed]

He’s had FIVE years. I get your point. But again.... FIVE years.

Understand that I am simply playing devil's advocate here, but in the past couple years of those five years, he has brought in Darnell Mooney, Cole Kmet, roquan Smith, David Montgomery, James Daniels, Bilal Nichols, signed Sam Mustipher and Alex bars, as well as bringing in a lot of players who have done really well as role players.

There's been some mistakes but overall the roster is really not that bad.

My chief contention right now is Mitch and Matt.

and the longer the Bears have success doing things the way they are doing them right now, the more it tells me that maybe we have more talent on this team than we thought but Nagy can't seem to find it and get the best people in the best spots.

None of the way the Bears have gotten to this point where we are at now is conventional which is just so Chicago Bears.

But in the grand scheme of things, I want to see one more year of everyone back. Just make sure this isn't a mirage.

I want to see Mitch in this scheme from the get-go. I want to see if Nagy can finally fully let go of his stupid Kansas City chiefs bastardization play calling. I want to see if Pace can make the moves needed to convince me that he knows how to draft now knowing this team has an identity.

And if they fall on their face next year, we can flush everybody.

But I do want to see it. Because even if they did it in their own janky Bears way, there is no such thing as style points - just finally fucking get there.

After all, being Bears fans we are used to fucked up seasons. What's one more?

 

[BrunoTheRed]

IMO,the last few weeks might have vindicated Pace if.......
He didn't draft a guy with a broken leg with his first #1 pick here.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a QB that we saw again yesterday barely belongs in the league.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a kicker who continues to prove he sucks for the Browns and not only cost the team a first round buy.........he ended up costing the team the game he forced them to play too.
If he didn't ridiculously spend assets to move up so he could draft a QB who was slotted mid round at best while passing on two future greats. This decision has and will continue to hamper the team for years and years.
Mack's a difference maker(most of the time)but those missed 1st and 2nd round picks will leave a mark too. If you're gonna make a player the highest paid at his position,why not pick that player up on the FA market instead of paying the money AND parting with picks on top of it.
If he didn't throw another ridiculous deal at a QB who's mediocre at best and that's only when he's healthy.
If he didn't throw more stupid money at a pass rusher Dallas had no further use for. I dunno but every time I watch the Rams,I see Floyd make more plays in that game alone than this Quinn guy's made all year.
The last few opponents haven't exploited the O-line which Pace has all but ignored but good teams will.
And then we have the team's best receiver by a mile and a half about to go FA because Pace has waisted the necessary money to sign him or just doesn't want to.
He's also the visionary who hired the offensive genius who's seen his OC greatly outperform him at calling plays.
It'll take a trip to the conference finals to vindicate Pace IMO.........at least!

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

I can blame pace for a lot of things, but the second I see someone blaming him for Kevin White, who did not have an injury history in college, I tune out because I know whoever is making that argument is an idiot.

 

[msadows]

Pace gets us an oline next year
We are in business
As long as Nagy does less
Let Lazor call plays
Give mitch a year
If he wins you a playoff game you reward him
This offense begins and ends with #32 if it is going to succeed

Agreed. Draft trask, grab a tackle, grab a wr to replace miller in the 3rd. Go all in on offense hoping all those players who are young develop even more.

 

[Chicago Staleys]

He’s had FIVE years. I get your point. But again.... FIVE years.

SIX years!

 

[xer0h0ur]

I legitimately don't know how anyone can possibly see the points being put on the board and actually come to the conclusion that nothing has changed. You have to be braneded to arrive at that conclusion. Its beyond obvious Nagy was the problem the entire time.

 

[Montucky]

I have tried to go through and really compare Pace to his peers but its a monumental task and I have other things to do. So far though, the only general manager I have found in the entire NFL who has drafted more talent in the last five years that is rostered and/or starting games somewhere in the NFL is Mickey Loomis (Pace's old boss on the Saints). Even with the Kevin White bust its defensible. Injuries are a risk with any draft pick. Shit happens.

His results in free agency are more hit-and-miss. His worst personnel move of his career seems like it is going to be Robert Quinn or the gargantuan Eddie Jackson extension. But on the other hand he's made savvy moves that nobody liked at the time. The Dan Trevathan contract has been shockingly effective, the guy has played out of his mind lately. Eating the poison pill on Kyle Fuller was not a popular move but Fuller has played like one of the ten or so best cornerback in the NFL week-in-week-out since the day the ink dried on that deal.

All in all he's a forty-three year old who has shown an elite talent for drafting. That for me is more than enough. Now that he'll have full drafts to work with for the first time since 2018 I'm pretty stoked for the future.

 

[Montucky]

Every single player Ryan Pace has drafted in the second round is currently seeing significant playing time (more than fifty percent of snaps) for a team currently in the playoff hunt. Exceptions are James Daniels and Eddie Goldman, both guys who obviously would be starting if it wasn't for injury/illness circumstances.

That's pretty remarkable. Seven selections in the second round and not one bust. Nobody else has done that.