Have the last few weeks vindicated Pace?

[ThatGuyRyan]

All in all he's a forty-three year old who has shown an elite talent for drafting. That for me is more than enough. Now that he'll have full drafts to work with for the first time since 2018 I'm pretty stoked for the future.

... but he doesn't, he traded our 2021 4th for Foles...but ok.

 

[Hutch1975]

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

I can blame pace for a lot of things, but the second I see someone blaming him for Kevin White, who did not have an injury history in college, I tune out because I know whoever is making that argument is an idiot.

Injuries can make a player a bust, but with White not having that prior history... you can say the pick went bad, but Pace can't predict the future. It's another thing if there is a big injury risk, and there's a comparable player who didn't have that history.

As for his others:
Floyd was emerging as an above-average OLB all-around, and Pace let him walk.
Trubisky is showing he is an above-average QB, often judged harshly because he was the #2 overall pick and because the Bears traded up a spot to get him.
Smith is becoming a beast at ILB.

My thinking is the Bears should trade down, get Pace more of the picks where he excels, and try to find a RT (I like Jackson Carman), an eventual LT (Daniel Faalele), someone to provide youth at ILB (Nick Bolton?), and a young DT.

Every single player Ryan Pace has drafted in the second round is currently seeing significant playing time (more than fifty percent of snaps) for a team currently in the playoff hunt. Exceptions are James Daniels and Eddie Goldman, both guys who obviously would be starting if it wasn't for injury/illness circumstances.

That's pretty remarkable. Seven selections in the second round and not one bust. Nobody else has done that.

You can literally argue that his biggest mistake with second-rounders was losing patience with Shaheen.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Seven selections in the second round and not one bust. Nobody else has done that.

Anthony Miller and Adam Shaheen disagree - I hate the term 'bust' because it's not objective at all. But to trade up for two guys who 1) aren't contributers or 2) on the team says a lot. So let's give him 5 out of 7, still pretty decent. Want to discuss is free agency?

 

[Montucky]

... but he doesn't, he traded our 2021 4th for Foles...but ok.

Nah, the Jaguars took Shaquille Quarterman with that pick in 2020 draft.

 

[Hutch1975]

I have tried to go through and really compare Pace to his peers but its a monumental task and I have other things to do. So far though, the only general manager I have found in the entire NFL who has drafted more talent in the last five years that is rostered and/or starting games somewhere in the NFL is Mickey Loomis (Pace's old boss on the Saints). Even with the Kevin White bust its defensible. Injuries are a risk with any draft pick. Shit happens.

His results in free agency are more hit-and-miss. His worst personnel move of his career seems like it is going to be Robert Quinn or the gargantuan Eddie Jackson extension. But on the other hand he's made savvy moves that nobody liked at the time. The Dan Trevathan contract has been shockingly effective, the guy has played out of his mind lately. Eating the poison pill on Kyle Fuller was not a popular move but Fuller has played like one of the ten or so best cornerback in the NFL week-in-week-out since the day the ink dried on that deal.

All in all he's a forty-three year old who has shown an elite talent for drafting. That for me is more than enough. Now that he'll have full drafts to work with for the first time since 2018 I'm pretty stoked for the future.

Quinn is a mistake.

Jackson, on the other hand... I think the injuries on the D-Line have cut into his effectiveness, just as the O-Line's injury woes in 2019 hampered Montgomery and Trubisky. He's been devastatingly effective in the past, he is a generational talent, and I think he will rebound with a healthy D-Line.

 

[DrGonzo]

Trevathan stayed healthy long enough to have a couple of decent games against shit teams. The smart move still would have been to keep Kwit.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Nah, the Jaguars took Shaquille Quarterman with that pick in 2020 draft.

Ah yes, my mistake. I lose track he gives away picks so often.. it was to the Vikings for Gipson... who only makes the stat sheet for stupid penalties.

 

[Montucky]

Anthony Miller and Adam Shaheen disagree - I hate the term 'bust' because it's not objective at all. But to trade up for two guys who 1) aren't contributers or 2) on the team says a lot. So let's give him 5 out of 7, still pretty decent. Want to discuss is free agency?

Both play a lot of snaps. The usage on Miller has fallen but that has a lot to do with the fact that Pace grabbed a first-round talent in the fifth-round in the 2020 draft. Shaheen is very heavily used in Miami too. Just because they dont light up the stat sheet doesn't mean they are not playing. True draft busts dont hang around in the league as long as Miller and Shaheen have.

 

[ijustposthere]

I love how it's like, "Pace's biggest fails are Mitch and Nagy," and it's wiped away because he drafted Mooney or some shit, like HC and QB aren't the two most important decisions that can change the direction of a franchise.

 

[thenewguy]

Good points...I also think he just needs to let the draft fall to him rather then getting overly aggressive and causing us draft capital.

That is honestly my biggest criticism of him. He gives away too many picks and needs to get comfortable that he may lose some guys he targets., We've seen him move down in the second and still get good players. I'd like more of that.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Both play a lot of snaps. The usage on Miller has fallen but that has a lot to do with the fact that Pace grabbed a first-round talent in the fifth-round in the 2020 draft. Shaheen is very heavily used in Miami too. Just because they dont light up the stat sheet doesn't mean they are not playing. True draft busts dont hang around in the league as long as Miller and Shaheen have.

Shaheen has only played over 50% once this season, Anthony Miller is sitting around 64% because of his use earlier in the season. They're not so spectacular players who can make rosters as backups, no shame in that.. trading up for them in hindsight though..

 

[Montucky]

Quinn is a mistake.

Jackson, on the other hand... I think the injuries on the D-Line have cut into his effectiveness, just as the O-Line's injury woes in 2019 hampered Montgomery and Trubisky. He's been devastatingly effective in the past, he is a generational talent, and I think he will rebound with a healthy D-Line.

I think Eddie Jackson needs to get back to doing the things he did to become a great safety. He just has not been his old self and I dont believe its a physical thing or has to do with his teammates.

If I were theorizing why Pace has such immense amount of drafting success its that he has an eye for guys who are willing to put in work to maximize their potential. Guys who dont see that NFL money rolling in and just stop caring. Sometimes it takes years for players to come around and physically develop enough to hack it and there is a personality trait that can be attributed to people who are willing to slog through the grind to bring themselves up to speed.

 

[Montucky]

Shaheen has only played over 50% once this season, Anthony Miller is sitting around 64% because of his use earlier in the season. They're not so spectacular players who can make rosters as backups, no shame in that.. trading up for them in hindsight though..

Again, the reason Miller's usage has fallen is because Darnell Mooney would probably be taken in the teens of the first round if you held a 2020 re-draft today. I dont see how you can fault Pace for that.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Jackson, on the other hand... I think the injuries on the D-Line have cut into his effectiveness, just as the O-Line's injury woes in 2019 hampered Montgomery and Trubisky. He's been devastatingly effective in the past, he is a generational talent, and I think he will rebound with a healthy D-Line.

He has legit stopped trying to be physical. I loved the pick, thought it was a steal of that draft. Questioned the extension for that much, but wow he has fallen off a cliff. When you watch the games, watch him he is half assing it.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Again, the reason Miller's usage has fallen is because Darnell Mooney would probably be taken in the teens of the first round if you held a 2020 re-draft today. I dont see how you can fault Pace for that.

No, he came into the season as the starter. The reason why Mooney even got a shot is because Miller was so awful. Yes props on the Mooney pick, he's looking like one of his best picks as a bears GM.

The question was has he been vindicated and the answer is hell no. Is the roster void of talent? No that's not the only one piece to managing a football team he's been a failure at hiring coaches, free agency and retaining talent.

 

[Hutch1975]

Anthony Miller and Adam Shaheen disagree - I hate the term 'bust' because it's not objective at all. But to trade up for two guys who 1) aren't contributers or 2) on the team says a lot. So let's give him 5 out of 7, still pretty decent. Want to discuss is free agency?

Miller contributes, albeit Darnell Mooney has forced his way onto the field. I'd say he's a decent #3 WR. Would I extend him big bucks? No.

Shaheen had a lot of injury problems with the Bears. IR in 2018. IR in 2019. Pace lost patience,and stupidly so, IMO. Shaheen's put up his highest snap percentage of his career in Miami. The Dolphins gave him a two-year extension.

Which means the Bears will likely get a 7th-round pick for a guy who may be a solid red-zone target for Tua.

 

[Montucky]

I love how it's like, "Pace's biggest fails are Mitch and Nagy," and it's wiped away because he drafted Mooney or some shit, like HC and QB aren't the two most important decisions that can change the direction of a franchise.

Alright but if you hire a substandard NFL head coach and a middling talent at quarterback yet still make the playoffs two out of three years that means something else is going right somewhere.

 

[Montucky]

Miller contributes, albeit Darnell Mooney has forced his way onto the field. I'd say he's a decent #3 WR. Would I extend him big bucks? No.

Shaheen had a lot of injury problems with the Bears. IR in 2018. IR in 2019. Pace lost patience,and stupidly so, IMO. Shaheen's put up his highest snap percentage of his career in Miami. The Dolphins gave him a two-year extension.

Which means the Bears will likely get a 7th-round pick for a guy who may be a solid red-zone target for Tua.

Shaheen's departure I suspect was mostly Nagy's doing.

 

[ijustposthere]

Alright but if you hire a substandard NFL head coach and a middling talent at quarterback yet still make the playoffs two out of three years that means something else is going right somewhere.

It means you're lucky to be in a trash conference.

 

[Montucky]

No, he came into the season as the starter. The reason why Mooney even got a shot is because Miller was so awful. Yes props on the Mooney pick, he's looking like one of his best picks as a bears GM.

Miller is another guy just like Eddie Jackson. The talent is obviously there but the focus has dipped. Miller is an emotional player, when he's riding high he's on the moon but clearly he's spent a lot of this season in a terrible mental place. Talent-wise its obviously there but he's holding himself back.

I'm definitely not willing to write him off at all.