Hollinger Compares Rose to Steve Francis

[??? ??????]

In other words, they don't trust each other. Partly this is because Rose is still more scorer than passer at this point, and if he doesn't start editing the Steve Francis tendencies out of his game, he's going to have a disappointing career. Another cause is that the Bulls still run everything through Rose even though he hasn't been any more productive than several of his teammates.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=delnegrobulls-091209

This is one of the reason's why I wasn't a big Derrick Rose fan at draft time. This was the exact comparison I had for Rose as well, Steve Francis.

I think it's probably time for the Bulls to admit that they can't build a team around Derrick Rose (it's a shame that that thinking already cost us a player who is better than Derrick), and start looking at ways to build a championship team not around Derrick, even if that means trading him.

 

[Chitown773]

??? ?????? wrote:

In other words, they don't trust each other. Partly this is because Rose is still more scorer than passer at this point, and if he doesn't start editing the Steve Francis tendencies out of his game, he's going to have a disappointing career. Another cause is that the Bulls still run everything through Rose even though he hasn't been any more productive than several of his teammates.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=delnegrobulls-091209

This is one of the reason's why I wasn't a big Derrick Rose fan at draft time. This was the exact comparison I had for Rose as well, Steve Francis.

I think it's probably time for the Bulls to admit that they can't build a team around Derrick Rose (it's a shame that that thinking already cost us a player who is better than Derrick), and start looking at ways to build a championship team not around Derrick, even if that means trading him.

Derrick Rose don't have Steve Francis attitude so his point disintegrates in his face. I rather have 10 years of Steve Francis rookie year than not have the honors of starting for a team.

 

[pinkizdead]

??? ?????? wrote:

In other words, they don't trust each other. Partly this is because Rose is still more scorer than passer at this point, and if he doesn't start editing the Steve Francis tendencies out of his game, he's going to have a disappointing career. Another cause is that the Bulls still run everything through Rose even though he hasn't been any more productive than several of his teammates.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=delnegrobulls-091209

This is one of the reason's why I wasn't a big Derrick Rose fan at draft time. This was the exact comparison I had for Rose as well, Steve Francis.

I think it's probably time for the Bulls to admit that they can't build a team around Derrick Rose (it's a shame that that thinking already cost us a player who is better than Derrick), and start looking at ways to build a championship team not around Derrick, even if that means trading him.

you're overreacting. ben gordon was not better than rose.

 

[pinkizdead]

sorry i mean to say ben gordon's career will not be better than rose's career.

 

[RPK]

Meh, I'd rather listen to a seasoned Bulls beat writer like Sam Smith who has covered every game and knows this team inside and out over Hollinger any day.

Bulls blown out again in echoes of Tim Floyd Era

Rose came out fast, as he’s promised, scoring six of the Bulls first eight points and taking four of the team’s first six shots. Look, Rose is doing fine and is a heck of a player.

He doesn’t want to score so much. He really is a point guard and I’m confident will be a great one. But, c’mon, the defense isn’t guarding anyone else. Great players like Jordan and Kobe and LeBron generally want to be “the man.” I don’t think Rose cares. I think he’d love to play with someone better and just get him the ball. But he has to score, so he tried and came out aggressive. You have to love that.

Remember, also, Rose is being asked to run the team. No, Derrick, be the scorer. No, pass. No, shoot. It wasn’t until his third season in the NBA Isiah Thomas played for a team with a winning record. It was the fourth season for Michael Jordan. The best needed help. So does Rose. He doesn’t have it yet.

 

[houheffna]

Gordon was not worth keeping if you don't keep Rose...what? Build around Gordon? Nobody is that stupid...

Rose deserves better coaching. Someone who will put Rose in the best position to succeed. He is what's important...Gordon is not.


I remember Hollinger putting Ben Gordon on the All-Overrated team a few years ago....

 

[pinkizdead]

gordon was still a good player. a damn good player. i think this season has proven how exceptionally valuable gordon was. hinrich goes out, deng goes out, we're doing alirhgt/slightly better. no gordon, and we turn to shit.

 

[pinkizdead]

also i think it's better to compare rose to a poor man's wade than francis.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

i dont understand how hollinger can say that about rose when 99% of bulls fans on these boards and everywhere else WISHED the kid would be more aggressive. now he is doing that and just because hes not shooting so well, all of a sudden hes being selfish? the reason hes not shooting well is because the defenses crowd him all day, since none of his teammates are gna do anything but jack up a midrange shot anyway.

countless times, this kid has passed up a good shot to get some other shmuck teammate to make a shot and get involved, but the shot doesnt go in. if the team as a whole could average about 43-44%, or something half decent, i GUARANTEE you, rose assist average would be way up in proportion to that.

rose is definitely the very last of our worries.

 

[jsain360]

houheffna wrote:

Gordon was not worth keeping if you don't keep Rose...what? Build around Gordon? Nobody is that stupid...

Rose deserves better coaching. Someone who will put Rose in the best position to succeed. He is what's important...Gordon is not.


I remember Hollinger putting Ben Gordon on the All-Overrated team a few years ago....

Preach!, Gordon is good but not better than Derrick, Derrick is the way better building block, the Bulls probably have about the same record if Gordon was apart of the team, Ben is not opposed to mailing in games either.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Recently I saw a montage of Steve Francis early on in his career. I forgot how good this guy was...if he stuck with it he could have been so much better too.

Rose definitely can't jump as well as Franchise could when he was his age...MJ couldn't even jump that high and Francis was only like 6-1!"

 

[Diddy1122]

jsain360 wrote:

houheffna wrote:

Gordon was not worth keeping if you don't keep Rose...what? Build around Gordon? Nobody is that stupid...

Rose deserves better coaching. Someone who will put Rose in the best position to succeed. He is what's important...Gordon is not.


I remember Hollinger putting Ben Gordon on the All-Overrated team a few years ago....

Preach!, Gordon is good but not better than Derrick, Derrick is the way better building block, the Bulls probably have about the same record if Gordon was apart of the team, Ben is not opposed to mailing in games either.

Wrong wrong wrong. Name me 1 instance when Gordon has mailed it in. Just 1. It never happened cuz the guy competes every night. He played on an injured groin for half of the Celts series last season. Yea he mails it in alright. You're talking about the most professional Professional basketball player that's probably ever played for the Bulls. He opened & closed the gym everynight. He never complained about starting or the bench or his minutes, & was nothing but graceful when the organization treated him like an unwanted step child for the past 3 seasons.

If we still had BG we would not be 7-13, we'd probably be closer to .500. But BG is not the problem & never was the problem. The problem is with the decision makers & the head coach.

 

[Diddy1122]

??? ?????? wrote:

In other words, they don't trust each other. Partly this is because Rose is still more scorer than passer at this point, and if he doesn't start editing the Steve Francis tendencies out of his game, he's going to have a disappointing career. Another cause is that the Bulls still run everything through Rose even though he hasn't been any more productive than several of his teammates.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=delnegrobulls-091209

This is one of the reason's why I wasn't a big Derrick Rose fan at draft time. This was the exact comparison I had for Rose as well, Steve Francis.

I think it's probably time for the Bulls to admit that they can't build a team around Derrick Rose (it's a shame that that thinking already cost us a player who is better than Derrick), and start looking at ways to build a championship team not around Derrick, even if that means trading him.

Hollinger is a friggin' moron. Honestly Simmons is the only decent writer for the crap website that is ESPN. And even he's wrong alot of the time. Hollinger lives in stats & metrics, much like you do. You can't judge player talent strictly by what spits out from a computer report.

The only comparison between these two is their size, athleticism, & ability to get to the hoop. More of a scorer than a passer? I can tell you right now that Rose would be averaging 10+ in assists if anyone on this team could hit an open shot. Rose is too unselfish. And I actually want a little Francis in him, a little fire, that's not a bad thing.

So let's just give up on a #1 pick after a ROY season & 1/4 of a season in which he was still affected by injury for 12 or so of those 20 games? What's the statistical advantage of that? Is there a True Selfishness % stat out there to support such a move?

 

[houheffna]

Wrong wrong wrong. Name me 1 instance when Gordon has mailed it in. Just 1. It never happened cuz the guy competes every night. He played on an injured groin for half of the Celts series last season. Yea he mails it in alright. You're talking about the most professional Professional basketball player that's probably ever played for the Bulls. He opened & closed the gym everynight. He never complained about starting or the bench or his minutes, & was nothing but graceful when the organization treated him like an unwanted step child for the past 3 seasons.

If we still had BG we would not be 7-13, we'd probably be closer to .500. But BG is not the problem & never was the problem. The problem is with the decision makers & the head coach.

I think the issue is whether Rose is good enough to build around. Gordon shouldn't even be in the equation...that is the problem.

I am happy with Gordon's years of service...he was here for some blowouts also. To a lot of the same teams. And dare I say he was part of the problem...not the solution...like all the other players.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

Diddy1122 wrote:

So let's just give up on a #1 pick after a ROY season & 1/4 of a season in which he was still affected by injury for 12 or so of those 20 games?

lets not forget the brilliant trade of elton brand after his ROY season and also trading former defensive player of the year ron artest for more trash. stupid ass moves like that are to be expected of this sorry excuse for a front office.

 

[Diddy1122]

theCHI_Life84 wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

So let's just give up on a #1 pick after a ROY season & 1/4 of a season in which he was still affected by injury for 12 or so of those 20 games?

lets not forget the brilliant trade of elton brand after his ROY season and also trading former defensive player of the year ron artest for more trash. stupid ass moves like that are to be expected of this sorry excuse for a front office.

I'll agree on the Brand trade because I hate Chandler & I absolutely hated the move at the time. But Artest was a total psycho when he was on the Bulls. I wasn't so sorry to see him leave as much as I was sorry that Brad Miller was included in the deal to get Jalen "Where's the call?" Rose.

 

[Shakes]

I think people forget how highly Steve Francis used to be regarded. There's a very real chance that Rose could be like Steve Francis ... a lot of hype that in the end disappoints. Of course Bulls fans hope he turns out better than that, but hope isn't the same as making it not true.

 

[Diddy1122]

Shakes wrote:

I think people forget how highly Steve Francis used to be regarded. There's a very real chance that Rose could be like Steve Francis ... a lot of hype that in the end disappoints. Of course Bulls fans hope he turns out better than that, but hope isn't the same as making it not true.

See that I would agree with. However, what Hollinger said makes absolutely no sense if you've watched this team even 1 game in the past 2 seasons. But Hollinger is too busy stroking his pocket calculator to notice.

 

[Shakes]

I'm not sure of the problem with what Hollinger said though. Rose is more of a scorer than a passer, we knew that when he was drafted. At the moment Hollinger is right in saying he's not a very efficient one, but that can be improved if he learns to draw fouls.

I don't think Hollinger is really even saying Rose needs to become something he's not, he's just saying he needs to make sure he turns out like Tony Parker rather than Steve Francis (to compare to another player comparison that gets thrown around for Rose).

 

[??? ??????]

theCHI_Life84 wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

So let's just give up on a #1 pick after a ROY season & 1/4 of a season in which he was still affected by injury for 12 or so of those 20 games?

lets not forget the brilliant trade of elton brand after his ROY season and also trading former defensive player of the year ron artest for more trash. stupid ass moves like that are to be expected of this sorry excuse for a front office.

Maybe we should try trading these guys for established stars (Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Carlos Boozer) who may be on the trade block, instead of Jalen Rose and a high schooler? Celtics did that with Al Jefferson and their #5 pick, and that worked out pretty well for them.