Is sentience an unavoidable aspect of evolution?

[TSD]

Proposing a question. Do you think sentience (self-awareness) and the ability to reason an unavoidable result of evolution? Or was it just chance that people came to be?



By that I mean, given an evolutionary model, is higher intelligence, inevitable or did the circumstances on earth just favor that.



For instance, were the dinosaurs not acted upon by an outside force (it is widely



accepted an asteroid is the cause of their demise), would humans have ever come to be? could there have been vastly different sentient species living here?



or could an eco system exist where sentient life would never appear until the stars burn out.



So i guess i am saying do you think the smarter will always out compete the stupider? If that is the case, I think higher intelligence is inevitable.

 

[supraman]

Proposing a question. Do you think sentience (self-awareness) and the ability to reason an unavoidable result of evolution? Or was it just chance that people came to be?



By that I mean, given an evolutionary model, is higher intelligence, inevitable or did the circumstances on earth just favor that.



For instance, were the dinosaurs not acted upon by an outside force (it is widely



accepted an asteroid is the cause of their demise), would humans have ever come to be? could there have been vastly different sentient species living here?



or could an eco system exist where sentient life would never appear until the stars burn out.



So i guess i am saying do you think the smarter will always out compete the stupider? If that is the case, I think higher intelligence is inevitable.

No. Throughout all of evolvution mammals who are the newest kids on the block have developed higher intelligence. But most animal types are still going strong.

 

[MassHavoc]

I'm a little confused by what you are trying to ask, but yes, I think that we will be whipped out when the aliens attack.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I'm a little confused by what you are trying to ask, but yes, I think that we will be whipped out when the aliens attack.

All hail our new alien kings!

 

[roshinaya]

The mutation for self-awareness and later intelligence, as shown, has been favourable on this planet. Had the asteroid not wiped out the dinosaurs, who knows, maybe the mammals wouldn't have evolved as they did and the Earth would be a different place with a different kind of species being the smart ones. Then again, it seems that higher intelligence does not mean a brighter future for the species. As it is now it looks like we manage to destroy our only home. Who knows, if this is a common occurrence in the universe, how many intelligent species have survived their own intelligence. Maybe if that mutation that allowed us to evolve the way we did never happened, we would be none the wiser and just doing our basic survival like all the other animals on this planet and not destroy our habitat.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Can be a loaded question that infers evolution vs creationism....in any case, I do believe that self awareness most likely always existed (even with them single cell amoebas), it just became more realized as any living thing built on history, past experiences, and passed on experiences. Does not take much for me to have observed the squirrels, chipmunks, and birds in my yard to see how they adjust when I screw with their feeders.





As far as the smarter out competing the stupider, I think it is all about drive and who wants it more. Look at humans who want total control (aggressive) vs those that could care less (passive). Hell if bears figured out how to use spears, clubs, and stones around the same time that humans did, I bet they would not have been hunted as much.

 

[roshinaya]

Reacting to outside stimulation does not mean that an organism is self-aware. That's something for higher order organisms.

 

[LordKOTL]

I think sentience is quantifiable. As such, I disagree with Rosh. An organism that can respond to outside stimuli is self-aware, but on a much more limited level. An amoeba may never question its place in the universe, but if it wasn't aware that it's nutrients were running low, it wouldn't attempt to feed. If it wasn't aware that it's environment was becoming unsuitible, it wouldn't become a cyst to weather it. Even if it's awareness is a simple, this is what "I sense so this is what I do" basal insticutal level, if it wasn't at least minimally self-aware it couldn't even respond to external stimuli.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I think sentience is quantifiable. As such, I disagree with Rosh. An organism that can respond to outside stimuli is self-aware, but on a much more limited level. An amoeba may never question its place in the universe, but if it wasn't aware that it's nutrients were running low, it wouldn't attempt to feed. If it wasn't aware that it's environment was becoming unsuitible, it wouldn't become a cyst to weather it. Even if it's awareness is a simple, this is what "I sense so this is what I do" basal insticutal level, if it wasn't at least minimally self-aware it couldn't even respond to external stimuli.

Exactly, and I do think it's only correlation with intelligence is the level something has become aware.





And Rosh, keep in mind that I also mentioned that it became more realized over time.

 

[TSD]

Can be a loaded question that infers evolution vs creationism....in any case, I do believe that self awareness most likely always existed (even with them single cell amoebas), it just became more realized as any living thing built on history, past experiences, and passed on experiences. Does not take much for me to have observed the squirrels, chipmunks, and birds in my yard to see how they adjust when I screw with their feeders.





As far as the smarter out competing the stupider, I think it is all about drive and who wants it more. Look at humans who want total control (aggressive) vs those that could care less (passive). Hell if bears figured out how to use spears, clubs, and stones around the same time that humans did, I bet they would not have been hunted as much.

I wasn't intending to infer that. more or less just asking if people think, higher intelligence, would be an unavoidable result of evolution. I am not implying conscious design, just that no matter the environment intelligence is the superior evolutionairy trait, regardless of the dangers that come along with it.

 

[bri]

I got a major headache just reading this. I guess that means I'm at the lower end of the intelligent stick.

 

[roshinaya]

Maybe I have a different definition of what is self-awareness. To me self-awareness means that the organism is aware that it is an individual and can think about itself. A single-cell amoeba reacting is strictly a reflexive thing, there is no thought behind it, it does not know why it does something, it's simply a biological machine with simple programming. Would you say flowers are self-aware when they move to the sun as it moves across the sky and close their petals when it gets dark? Or is a laptop self-aware when its programming tells it that it's power level is at a certain level and it needs to go into hibernation?



And don't worry Bri, these sort of questions about awareness/consciousness have been wracking the brains of humans since whenever they could. I too became slightly dizzy when thinking about it.

 

[the canadian dream]

I like that Rosh.



So what creates self awareness? Is it emotion? Would that be the dominant trait? Or would it be being able to acknowledge why that certain emotion or emotions exist at the time they do? Which is a system of both natural instinct and social/cultural programming working together or even fighting each other?



OMG



I gotta split from this thread though. It's a smart folks thread.



I like sandwiches..can we talk about sandwiches? Are sandwiches self aware? Do they know how tasty they are?

 

[Bringmepie]

I like that Rosh.



So what creates self awareness? Is it emotion? Would that be the dominant trait? Or would it be being able to acknowledge why that certain emotion or emotions exist at the time they do? Which is a system of both natural instinct and social/cultural programming working together or even fighting each other?



OMG



I gotta split from this thread though. It's a smart folks thread.



I like sandwiches..can we talk about sandwiches? Are sandwiches self aware? Do they know how tasty they are?

Are you talking about a simple single slice of bread and cheese folded over on itself kind of sandwich or something more evolved like a Bumstead?

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Maybe I have a different definition of what is self-awareness. To me self-awareness means that the organism is aware that it is an individual and can think about itself. A single-cell amoeba reacting is strictly a reflexive thing, there is no thought behind it, it does not know why it does something, it's simply a biological machine with simple programming. Would you say flowers are self-aware when they move to the sun as it moves across the sky and close their petals when it gets dark? Or is a laptop self-aware when its programming tells it that it's power level is at a certain level and it needs to go into hibernation?



And don't worry Bri, these sort of questions about awareness/consciousness have been wracking the brains of humans since whenever they could. I too became slightly dizzy when thinking about it.

Why does the amoeba react?



Why do humans react?





I think the answer is the same, just the degree of understanding of the "why" on the living thing is different.





p.s. can't use a laptop as a counter example....unless you belive a laptop is a living thing.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I like that Rosh.



So what creates self awareness? Is it emotion? Would that be the dominant trait? Or would it be being able to acknowledge why that certain emotion or emotions exist at the time they do? Which is a system of both natural instinct and social/cultural programming working together or even fighting each other?



OMG



I gotta split from this thread though. It's a smart folks thread.



I like sandwiches..can we talk about sandwiches? Are sandwiches self aware? Do they know how tasty they are?

Open face, sub, or just the stuff?

 

[supraman]

You look at the most sucessful species on the planet and they are all pretty dumb. Pick any bacteria and look at cockroaches. They are disgusting but damn near close to perfection from a evolutionary point of view. You cut off its head, it doesn't die because its head is cut off it lives 13-14 more days until it starves to death.

 

[Ymono37]

Open face, sub, or just the stuff?

And what about the differences between poor boys, heroes, hoagies, grinders, submarine sandwiches and muffalettas... are they all the same thing or merely perceived differently by the different geographical reasons?



And isn't "sub dressing" just italian salad dressing marketed differently?



and how much cheese on a sandwich is too much cheese!!?!?!?!?



Oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Just let me know when Skynet goes live.

 

[Ymono37]

Just let me know when Google goes live.

Edited for accuracy.