James Jones: Chicago Bears 'Super Bowl contenders' with quarterback Derek Carr

[dennehy]

U just told truthbedamned what?


What should I look for?

Look for whatever you want. I'm guessing a couple box scores and a thread on a message board will be enough for you.

As far a TBD, what I'm saying is that I trust my eyes, not his.

 

[remydat]

I have already stated what I think about Carr vs Trubisky.

I don’t think you can judge both equally on passer rating however because of the run game disparities.

I dont think the run game realistically erases his 17 point lead in rating. So even if you want to shave some of that off it isnt going all the way down to 83 IMO.

You can look at his other years when the run game was great and he still has never had an 83 except for rookie year. So his floor is just higher period.

 

[remydat]

TIL that reading a man defense is just as easy with 4 guys out there as reading a zone defense with 6 guys.

Someone, tell Jimmy G this news!

This is disingenuous. You switched coverages ie man vs zone which is different than what we are discussing. You can play man or zone with 4 DBs or 5 or 6.

Reading the same man look with 4 DBs is not significantly easier than doing so with 5 DBs.

Reading the same zone D with 4 DBs is not significantly different than with 5 DBs.

The difference is not in reading the D. If the LB with 4 DBs has the same coverage as the extra CB in nickel then his responsibility will be the same. The QB will still have the same queues to read. The corner might execute that responsibility better but it is still the same.

 

[run and shoot]

Look for whatever you want. I'm guessing a couple box scores and a thread on a message board will be enough for you.

As far a TBD, what I'm saying is that I trust my eyes, not his.

Naw.....I just believe in what I see as well, also gathering info. from multiple sources. If fans in another city have info. why shouldn't I read it. They see their team and are pretty in touch with whats going on with the players.

 

[msadows]

This is disingenuous. You switched coverages ie man vs zone which is different than what we are discussing. You can play man or zone with 4 DBs or 5 or 6.

Reading the same man look with 4 DBs is not significantly easier than doing so with 5 DBs.

Reading the same zone D with 4 DBs is not significantly different than with 5 DBs.

The difference is not in reading the D. If the LB with 4 DBs has the same coverage as the extra CB in nickel then his responsibility will be the same. The QB will still have the same queues to read.

I'm literally not reading anything you post anymore. You don't watch the games, just look at ESPN.com and PFR.

 

[modo]

I dont think the run game realistically erases his 17 point lead in rating. So even if you want to shave some of that off it isnt going all the way down to 83 IMO.

You can look at his other years when the run game was great and he still has never had an 83 except for rookie year. So his floor is just higher period.

You are tilting at windmills.....I never assigned a point total to the run game...all I said was that it wasn't a 1 for 1 comparison....
I've also said Carr is more consistent but Trubisky has a higher ceiling....what exactly are you trying to refute at this point?

 

[run and shoot]

Sometimes hearing what fans say is a lot better than hearing some phony scripted dialogue from a team rep.

 

[remydat]

I'm literally not reading anything you post anymore. You don't watch the games, just look at ESPN.com and PFR.

Please don't read my posts as if you just going to disingenuously swap out man for zone then it is clear you have no intent to discuss honestly.

 

[remydat]

You are tilting at windmills.....I never assigned a point total to the run game...all I said was that it wasn't a 1 for 1 comparison....
I've also said Carr is more consistent but Trubisky has a higher ceiling....what exactly are you trying to refute at this point?

Here was the exchange.

The excuse for what I posted about Carr’s nextgen stats is that he had a bad supporting cast. Why wouldntTrubisky get the same benefit of the doubt?

But he still put up a 100 QB rating with that cast. That is 17 points better than Trubs.

My point is the reason Carr gets the benefit is he was much better with a poor supporting cast to the tune of a 17 point difference. So even if you want to adjust it down some for the better run game, Carr would still come out ahead because the run game doesnt explain the 17 point difference entirely.

In short he gets the benefit of doubt because he reads the D and is more consistent. Your responses only mentiomed the run game as if that explained the 17 point difference entirely. It does not.

If you understand Carr is more consistent and reads the D better I would expect you to say, "Well the 17 point difference would be lower if Carr had the same run game but he still would be better because he is more consistent and reads the D better."

 

[modo]

Here was the exchange.






My point is the reason Carr gets the benefit is he was much better with a poor supporting cast to the tune of a 17 point difference. So even if you want to adjust it down some for the better run game, Carr would still come out ahead because the run game doesnt explain the 17 point difference entirely.

In short he gets the benefit of doubt because he reads the D and is more consistent. You response only mentiomed the run game as if that explained the 17 point difference entirely. It does not.

If you understand Carr is more consistent and reads the D better I would expect you to say, "Well the 17 point difference would be lower if Carr had the same run game but he still would be better because he is more consistent and reads the D better."

no where did I mention anything about the running game being worth points...I mentioned you can't judge the disparaity 1 for 1 because Carr had worlds better run support....

All this started based on the nextgen stats, not passer rating,....you brought the passer rating into this...

My comment was based on Carr throwing shorter pass than Trubisky based on the next gen stats...thats it.

 

[remydat]

no where did I mention anything about the running game being worth points...I mentioned you can't judge the disparaity 1 for 1 because Carr had worlds better run support....

All this started based on the nextgen stats, not passer rating,....you brought the passer rating into this...

My comment was based on Carr throwing shorter pass than Trubisky based on the next gen stats...thats it.

In response to my point about 17 points you only mentioned the run game. Generally speaking I would expect a response to address the point so if the run game does not explain all of the difference then what does? In short are you in agreement that Carr would still be better because the gap in performance is not solely down to run game?

Yes you mentioned next gen and asked why Carr gets benefit of the doubt. My response was noting there are other metrics where he blows Trubs out of the water such as passer rating. So I attempted to answer your question. He gets the benefit because he was pretty succesful with his approach as a 100 rating is good. An 83 rating is not.

 

[Bearly]

I don't know. Have always wondered that and never had an answer from the "fix everything around Mitch" crew. I am not even saying you are one of them but if it's useless to upgrade QB I presume you must be to some extent.



LOL I literally answered you the same manner you just gave me directly. That reaction is

Sure was just pointing out it is not really an ideal running situation if you dont play 2 TEs or use a Fullback.

Although I think the not having time is overblown as Mitch's pressure rate was around league average. It is not like he was top 10 in getting pressured among QBs or something.

has a lot to do with short horizontal passing.

 

[modo]

In response to my point about 17 points you only mentioned the run game. Generally speaking I would expect a response to address the point so if the run game does not explain all of the difference then what does? In short are you in agreement that Carr would still be better because the gap in performance is not solely down to run game?

Yes you mentioned next gen and asked why Carr gets benefit of the doubt. My response was noting there are othet metrics where he blows Trubs out of the water such as passer rating. So I attempted to answer your question.

And I believe you can't really judge them on a 1 for 1 basis because Carr has better support for the running game...I didn't say it erased, I just said simply that the 17 point differential isn't the be all end all.

 

[remydat]

has a lot to do with short horizontal passing.

Which can work if you make the right read and hit guys in stride. 2 things Mitch doesnt do will. How many times did he miss someone open with space or forced a receiver to have to jump, dive or adjust his body to catch the ball?

His calling card out of college was hitting guys in stride. That has all but disappeared under Nagy.

 

[remydat]

And I believe you can't really judge them on a 1 for 1 basis because Carr has better support for the running game...I didn't say it erased, I just said simply that the 17 point differential isn't the be all end all.

Agreed. The reading the D and consistency in never having a rating as low as 83 outside of his rookie year are the additional factors to consider.

 

[modo]

Which can work if you make the right read and hot guys in stride. 2 things Mitch doesnt do will. How many times did he miss someone open with space or forced a receiver to have to jump, dive or adjust his body to catch the ball?

His calling card out of college was hitting guys in stride. That has all but disappeared under Nagy.

actually if you had watched the games the short passing was designed for one receiver....Trubisky actually was hitting guys in stride last year, something he didn't do in 2018 as well.

On a few a of the designed short passing plays it got so predictable that Trubisky had to improvise and actually came up with a few good plays...

 

[remydat]

actually if you had watched the games the short passing was designed for one receiver....Trubisky actually was hitting guys in stride last year, something he didn't do in 2018 as well.

On a few a of the designed short passing plays it got so predictable that Trubisky had to improvise and actually came up with a few good plays...

It was not just Gabs but he would routinely miss Cohen. He would lead him to the sidelines with his throw instead of throwing it in a way that allowed him to catch it as he was moving upfield. Cohen being Cohen would them just happily continue out of bounds.

Then there were the crossing routes where he would throw behind the runner or the runner would have to jump to catch and hit the ground meaning limited YAC.

 

[modo]

It was not just Gabs but he would routinely miss Cohen. He would lead him to the sidelines with his throw instead of throwing it in a way that allowed him to catch it as he was moving upfield. Cohen being Cohen would them just happily continue out of bounds.

That was more of a function in 2018....he was better at hitting in stride in 2019...again we can just disagree.

 

[remydat]

That was more of a function in 2018....he was better at hitting in stride in 2019...again we can just disagree.

YAC numbers dont prove this out.

 

[msadows]

Yo really. Why you guys even talking to this remy dude?

Hes as terrible as it gets on this forum.

I mean all he talks about is statistical data cause he's a nerd, but somehow thinks Allen Robinson wasn't good in 2018.

He doesn't watch the games, just has them on in the background while he fills out his score sheet.