Jim Hendry Bust or Great GM?

brett05

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I get it why fans think Hendry was a bad GM and the mess that the Cubs are in now are a good deal on Hendry's shoulders. But what if the Cubs actually made it to the World Series in 2003, 2007, and/or 2008. Or even better won a championship. What would be the opinion of him be?

I don't think a putz who got lucky would fit as some have characterized a different GM in Chicago
 

Rice Cube

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Hendry built up the farm system during the late 90s when he was scouting director prior to becoming GM. He built teams that contended for the division just about each season of the past decade. He wasn't perfect, but I don't think you call him a bust. Like all GMs (even Theo or Brian Cashman) Hendry did some really good stuff and some really dumb shit. It comes with the territory.
 

brett05

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I hear ya, but many don't see Jim in that light at all.
 

Rice Cube

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I hear ya, but many don't see Jim in that light at all.

That's because most fans have the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. It's only human.
 

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Marginal. Made some really nice moves early on then his last few seasons at the MLB level were pretty bad.

Playing the "what if" game is rather pointless in this case because it lacks any real context.

He was a C overall. He wasn't the idiot some made him out to be but he was far from anything near one of the better ones in the game
 

brett05

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True, but they also have "I can't use history to judge you idice" to a degree
 

NCChiFan

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Sorry, there really is only 1 goal for any GM... Hendry was ok, but failed at attaining that 1 goal. Funny they did it accross town, attained that 1 goal.
 

brett05

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He was a C overall. He wasn't the idiot some made him out to be but he was far from anything near one of the better ones in the game

What would have made him one of the better ones?
 

Rice Cube

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What would have made him one of the better ones?

He was good at picking the right talent but poor at evaluating the things that made a player consistently good. If he had employed more statnerds I think he could have had the best of both worlds.

Plus he probably got tripped up a bit by the ownership situation. He was never able to go overslot on draft signings until Ricketts gave him the green light last season, and he pretty much only got to spend freely when the Tribune was going broke and told him to spend future money now because they wouldn't be on the hook for it.
 

Rice Cube

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Do you?

What the hell was the point of the question?

I think he was asking a hypothetical question to determine what fans would have thought of Hendry had his teams actually won a World Series.

The obvious answer would be that the fans would think he was a god for about two or three seasons before asking for him to be fired if they don't make it back within a reasonable amount of time. Sort of like with Kenny Williams.
 

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I think he was asking a hypothetical question to determine what fans would have thought of Hendry had his teams actually won a World Series.

The obvious answer would be that the fans would think he was a god for about two or three seasons before asking for him to be fired if they don't make it back within a reasonable amount of time. Sort of like with Kenny Williams.

Again..What's the point of asking all this?

It's like asking "What could the Colts have done to avoid being the worst team in the league?" Win more games? :dunno:

It seems pretty obvious to any baseball observer what Hendry should have done to be considered a good/great GM
 

poodski

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What would have made him one of the better ones?

Basically not signing Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Zambrano to such bad deals.

Though without Soriano 2007 doesnt happen.

Zambrano was just a terrible move. Soriano was ill advised but no one should have seen him going from a 4-5 win player to a replacement level player either. Like he did from 2008 to 2009.

The Cubs were built to win short term. If the Cubs win it all in 2008 then he is still here, but they didn't so he isn't.

2009 is where it all went wrong. Soriano fell off a cliff. Aramis got hurt. Soto took a giant step back. Bradley was a cancer.

Pitching was pretty good in 2009, but a lot of things went wrong and the wheels fell off. This team wasnt built to win long term but should have been better in 2009 and 2010 most likely.
 

Rice Cube

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Hendry was pretty terrible throughout his tenure. Someone gave him credit for building up the Cubs farm system in the late 90's...I don't know how "built up" it ever really was, but I do know that the Cubs farm system became the worst in the MLB during his tenure.

The Cubs had one of the highest payrolls in the MLB, and it dwarfed the other NL Central payrolls. Yet he still couldn't make the Cubs consistent winners, really. The 2003 team was probably his only team that could even be considered World Series-worthy.

The two things in which Hendry had most control, player signings and managerial hirings, were the two areas in which the Cubs were the worst. Pinella was obviously a terrible hire (most people with a brain knew that from the start), but I would argue the biggest mistake Hendry made was having Dusty Baker as his manager. Having Baker manage a young pitching staff was like having Billy Martin in charge of the 1981 A's. Baker pretty much ruined the Cubs future, and after that we saw Hendry overpaying for players with glaring weaknesses.

I would view Hendry similar to Jerry Angelo...an idiot whose teams succeeded in spite of him, and even then only had moderate success.

The farm system had a lot of depth but I think as a GM he was hamstrung by the ownership as I said above. He also had to trade away a lot of that depth to get Matt Garza, which was when the Cubs system went from top third to bottom third if that's what you're alluding to.

Hendry also had a couple of good swindle trades, the one where he got Aramis Ramirez and a later one where he traded a few broken arms for Tom Gorzelanny before he decided to suck again. He's definitely not the best, but I don't think he was absolutely terrible.

The managerial hirings I can definitely see and I concede that the managers he got didn't do the best job possible. Lou had some really cool managements before he had to quit, though (all managers have their brainfart moments with pinch-hitters, bunts etc). The Alfonso Soriano signing seemed to be a mandate by ownership, and the Zambrano signing was an overpay, but I think Hendry did well in giving Dempster, Derrek Lee and Aramis the deals they got. They produced to those contracts (depending on how much you believe in WAR$). He made a major error in signing Marmol to that extension, but the Marshall extension was great. I don't know what the fuck he was thinking giving Grabow all that money though.

Long story short (too late!), Hendry wasn't that bad. After his promotion in mid-2002 he had those three playoff teams (2003, 2007, 2008) and a couple of misses (2004 and 2009). I'm not sure how much higher Cubs payroll was than STL or Houston early on, but they didn't really ramp it up until the Tribune decided they were broke if I recall correctly. Would have to look that up unless you know offhand.
 

poodski

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Hendry was pretty terrible throughout his tenure. Someone gave him credit for building up the Cubs farm system in the late 90's...I don't know how "built up" it ever really was, but I do know that the Cubs farm system became the worst in the MLB during his tenure.

The Cubs had one of the highest payrolls in the MLB, and it dwarfed the other NL Central payrolls. Yet he still couldn't make the Cubs consistent winners, really. The 2003 team was probably his only team that could even be considered World Series-worthy.

The two things in which Hendry had most control, player signings and managerial hirings, were the two areas in which the Cubs were the worst. Pinella was obviously a terrible hire (most people with a brain knew that from the start), but I would argue the biggest mistake Hendry made was having Dusty Baker as his manager. Having Baker manage a young pitching staff was like having Billy Martin in charge of the 1981 A's. Baker pretty much ruined the Cubs future, and after that we saw Hendry overpaying for players with glaring weaknesses.

I would view Hendry similar to Jerry Angelo...an idiot whose teams succeeded in spite of him, and even then only had moderate success.

2003 only WS worthy team? Lol.

2004 and 2008 were definitely better. 2007 probably too.
 

FirstTimer

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2003 only WS worthy team? Lol.

2004 and 2008 were definitely better. 2007 probably too.

1. WUT?!?!?

2. 2007 and 2008 weren't as good as that 03 team IMO. 2007 most definitely wasn't. 08 won a ton of games but weren't as good at the top end of the rotation or in the bullpen. Plus while I liked 2008's lineup better 2003's wasn't bad and 2008's seemed really feast for famine. They were really bad at being able to manufacture runs...which is a key to playoff baseball.

2004 had a ton of bang in the lineup but the pitching was really bad. 2003 was the best balanced of all the Hendry "good teams".
 
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FirstTimer

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The farm system had a lot of depth but I think as a GM he was hamstrung by the ownership as I said above. He also had to trade away a lot of that depth to get Matt Garza, which was when the Cubs system went from top third to bottom third if that's what you're alluding to.

.

The Cubs system was pretty poop dick before he traded for Garza. When your top 'spects are flukey pitchers like Trye McNutt it's bad.
 

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