Joe Dumars, Darko Jokes, and the Chicago Bulls

[Fred]

After my comments on the latest Bullseye, I feel the need to respond to all this Joe Dumars hate. Milicic obviously was a horrible pick, but I don’t recall any outrage or horror with the pick at the time. It wasn’t like when we traded Brand for Chandler and drafted Curry. The entire Bulls fanbase was outraged, and rightly so. What did the Bulls do in that same Darko draft? The Bulls could have traded up to get Wade, but they didn’t want to part with Donyell Marshall in order to do it. How does that move look today? But you never hear the Bulls get heat for that horrible non-move.

In Dumars' 9 seasons, the Pistons made the playoffs 8 times. They have 5 division titles, 3 Eastern Conference Titles, and 1 Championship. He’s had 1 top 5 pick, and he screwed it up with Darko. But let’s compare his performance to the Bulls in that same period. Eddie Curry, J. Williams…the list goes on and on. At least Darko is still in the league…where is Marcus Fizer today? We’d be lucky to have a GM half as good as Dumars.
Look at the quality coaches he has hired. Larry Brown and Flip Saunders, compared to Tim Floyd and Vinny Del Negro. I mean, the comparisons are laughable.

Dumars took over prior to the 2000-01 season. Here are their records in his tenure:
Season W L %
2008-2009
39 43 .476

2007-2008
59 23 .720

2006-2007
53 29 .646

2005-2006
64 18 .780

2004-2005
54 28 .659

2003-2004
54 28 .659

2002-2003
50 32 .610

2001-2002
50 32 .610

2000-2001
32 50 .390

I don't have any confidence in the guys running this Bulls team. I believe in Rose, and that's about it. Keep throwing the Darko jokes out there, but that team is being run by a guy who knows what he's doing.

Fred
Twitter: CBEFred

On February 15, 2006, just prior to the NBA's All-Star break, Mili?i? was traded, along with point guard Carlos Arroyo, to the Orlando Magic for Kelvin Cato and a first-round pick in the 2007 NBA Draft (Rodney Stuckey).[3]

NBA Executive career
Dumars became the Pistons' President of Basketball Operations prior to the 2000–01 NBA season. He was voted the league's Executive of the Year for the 2002-03 season

2004 NBA Championship
2005 NBA Eastern Conference Champions—
The Pistons made it to the Eastern Conference Finals six straight years (2003–2008) under Dumars' watch.

This streak would come to an end in the 2008-09 NBA season. The Pistons would get swept in the first round by the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Notable trades
• Grant Hill, traded for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace in 2000.
• Jerome Williams, traded for Corliss Williamson in 2001.
• Mateen Cleaves, traded for Jon Barry in 2001.
• Jud Buechler, traded for Clifford Robinson in 2001.
• Jerry Stackhouse, traded for Richard Hamilton in 2002.
• Michael Curry, traded for Lindsey Hunter in 2003.
• Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura, Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and two first round picks, traded for Rasheed Wallace and Mike James in 2004; Hunter would return to the team a week later.
• Elden Campbell and a first round draft pick, traded for Carlos Arroyo in 2005; Campbell would return to the team later that season.
• Nazr Mohammed for Primož Brezec and Wálter Herrmann in 2007.
• Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess, and Cheikh Samb traded for Allen Iverson on November 3, 2008; McDyess would return to the team one month later.
Notable draft picks
• Mehmet Okur in the second round with the 38th overall pick in the 2001 NBA Draft.
• Tayshaun Prince in the first round with the 23rd overall pick in the 2002 NBA Draft.
• Darko Milicic in the first round with the 2nd overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft. This pick would come back to haunt the Pistons, as it meant they passed on the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh.
• Jason Maxiell in the first round with the 26th pick in the 2005 NBA Draft.
• Rodney Stuckey in the first round with the 15th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft.
• Arron Afflalo in the first round with the 27th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft.
[edit] Notable signings
• Chauncey Billups
• Antonio McDyess
• Chris Webber
• Will Bynum
• Ben Gordon
• Charlie Villanueva
• Rick Carlisle (coach)
• Larry Brown (coach)
• Flip Saunders (coach)

 

[houheffna]

I still knock Krause for not getting Hornacek in 1994, let alone squandered draft picks in the 1980's by Krause. I try not to think about Paxson and the Wade debacle, not drafting Brandon Roy (everybody is pissed over Aldridge, but they went into that draft knowing they needed an off guard and didn't get one, no one would mention Wade if Paxson gets Roy). Paxson did poorly, I have said that in past postings and had to fight over it. Having him watching over Forman's shoulder does not make me much happier. I don't see how you can say that about Paxson when people booed him...at Red Kerr Day! He got booed about as much as Reinsdorf (which I found inappropriate). I believe that everybody knows he f----- up. Yet and still, he would have drafted Melo...that is a monumental mistake, not even for a journeyman, Milicic is barely in the league!

 

[Diddy1122]

I think Dumars is one of the best GMs in the sport. I've been saying that for awhile now. But the moves he has made in the last 2 seasons have been horrible & go against everything he built in Detroit. He could have done some tweaking to an already solid team, but instead he turned everything on it's ear, fired a good coach in Saunders, turned the reigns over to a bad coach in Michael Curry, traded his captain & best player for the perfect storm that is AI, then proceeded to outbid himself to sign BG & Charlie V, capping out his team for the next several years. He'd better hope that BG becomes the all-star you think he will be & Chalie V becomes something more than a Chris Gaitling clone with a 3pt shot. If not this team it doomed to mediocrity for the next 5-6 yrs after being a perrinial playoff team.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Dumars is a pretty fine GM IMO. Really his only screw up before this past season was drafting Darko. I really have no idea what Darko did to get his name out there to warrant him even being picked in the 1st round, but he must've done something to impress Dumars, otherwise he could've had Chris Bosh or something. Imagine if he had drafted Bosh...the Pistons would probably still be a top 3-4 team in the East. And probably have won another championship or two.

 

[TheStig]

Fred, its also important to note the reason why they didn't draft a melo. Melo would have hindered what they did, he played no D and had a bad attitude when he came into the league. He would have been a distraction and in the dog house on that team as LB didn't play rookies. Darko was a superior prospect to Bosh who would have been the other logical choice for them. If you want to fault them for anything Bosh would have been there choice if Darko didn't enter the draft. You can't really fault a team for not wanting a distraction on their title run.

 

[houheffna]

There is no excuse for not drafting Melo over Milicic. LB would have played Melo, he played Prince in Prince's rookie season, he would have played Melo, who is much better than Prince. His attitude problem was not that pronounced, he was head and shoulders above everybody else. LB played Darko enough that Detroit knew he sucked, he would have played Melo enough to know Melo is an allstar...a lot of players come in with bad attitudes...consider where they come from.

But the fact that Melo would have been the best player on that team in a year shows that a mistake was made...

 

[JimmyBulls]

Larry Brown was pissed when Joe Dumars drafted Dumars. Brown wanted Dumars to draft Melo, and then trade Prince, but Joe probably thought Prince would develop into more than a roleplayer. He was wrong.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

There is no excuse for not drafting Melo over Milicic. LB would have played Melo, he played Prince in Prince's rookie season, he would have played Melo, who is much better than Prince. His attitude problem was not that pronounced, he was head and shoulders above everybody else. LB played Darko enough that Detroit knew he sucked, he would have played Melo enough to know Melo is an allstar...a lot of players come in with bad attitudes...consider where they come from.

But the fact that Melo would have been the best player on that team in a year shows that a mistake was made...

Hou, you can't be serious, they were a contender, you don't draft a distraction when you are competing for a title. Darko played a whopping 5mpg in 34 games so he didn't play at all except in blowouts. Melo his first year had a bad attitude and didn't play D and had entitlement issues. He wouldn't have fit with that team at all. If you want to blame him for anything it should be not drafting bosh but darko looked like a better prospect coming out. With or Without drafting Darko, he was still a top 5 pick that year, neither bosh or wade were that impressive coming out.

 

[clonetrooper264]

JimmyBulls wrote:

Larry Brown was pissed when Joe Dumars drafted Dumars. Brown wanted Dumars to draft Melo, and then trade Prince, but Joe probably thought Prince would develop into more than a roleplayer. He was wrong.

Lol sorry for pointing out typos, but this one is just really funny. Dumars drafted himself :laugh:

I know you mean Darko.

 

[houheffna]

Hou, you can't be serious, they were a contender, you don't draft a distraction when you are competing for a title. Darko played a whopping 5mpg in 34 games so he didn't play at all except in blowouts. Melo his first year had a bad attitude and didn't play D and had entitlement issues. He wouldn't have fit with that team at all. If you want to blame him for anything it should be not drafting bosh but darko looked like a better prospect coming out. With or Without drafting Darko, he was still a top 5 pick that year, neither bosh or wade were that impressive coming out.

You can't be serious defending that pick, can't possibly be serious. A top player in the league got passed up, and everybody knew he was going to be a top player in the league. He played one year in college, and destroyed the NCAA...all of this distraction talk is b.s....and Dumars is really concerned about bringing defense to the team...that explains why he made the off season moves he made for those two defensive juggernauts over the summer.

 

[Hendu0520]

I don't know who Fred talks to about basketball but when the pick happened the crowd gave a gasp of amazement, the announcers were surprised and everyone I talked to was absolutely dogging it right away. I remember me and my friends had already pegged Melo or Lebron on the Pistons (most likely Melo) and them in the Finals for the next 5 years, ha.

Also if you remember Lebron was not an absolute sure thing to be picked number 1 because of Melo's run in the NCAA tournament. Most people couldn't see how Cleveland could turn down the hometown kid, but it was a debate. So taking Milicic over Anthony was absolutely horrible whether you wanna argue how hyped Bosh and Wade were at the time is irrelevant.

Lastly, GM's don't have to make a lot of moves, he did great at first yes but you can't give Dumars credit for making the Eastern Conference finals all those years, he stacked talent and sat back and enjoyed the wins. When it came time for him to make decisions as an accomplished GM he has been choking on his own ego, trying to find a diamond in the ruff all of the time. He is looking like his buddy Isaiah drafting Balkman in the first round when no one wouldh have touched him and the Knicks could have gotten him in the 2nd round. Alla Dumars picking Stuckey like 6th (not sure but it was high) in the entire draft, lol, he would have been there at 22.

Drafting Milicic is the worst draft pick in NBA history (the Bulls admitted they would have taken Bowie too at #2). Also signing Gordon was ok but Villanueva? He has locked up all of his cap space for the greatest free agent summer in NBA history, glad he is not my GM, 1 championship is not what I want.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Hou, you can't be serious, they were a contender, you don't draft a distraction when you are competing for a title. Darko played a whopping 5mpg in 34 games so he didn't play at all except in blowouts. Melo his first year had a bad attitude and didn't play D and had entitlement issues. He wouldn't have fit with that team at all. If you want to blame him for anything it should be not drafting bosh but darko looked like a better prospect coming out. With or Without drafting Darko, he was still a top 5 pick that year, neither bosh or wade were that impressive coming out.

You can't be serious defending that pick, can't possibly be serious. A top player in the league got passed up, and everybody knew he was going to be a top player in the league. He played one year in college, and destroyed the NCAA...all of this distraction talk is b.s....and Dumars is really concerned about bringing defense to the team...that explains why he made the off season moves he made for those two defensive juggernauts over the summer.

Hou, its not like Darko was projected to be a bum. He was supposed to be the next big thing. They wanted a project. If you want to say they failed at anything it was taking darko over bosh. They wanted someone they could stash on the bench and you can't argue with the results. They won a title that year and made the ecf 6 times in a row. Sure Melo would have helped them down the line but he wasn't the player he is today mentally and that would have hurt the team the first year.

 

[Fred]

Hendu0520 wrote:

Drafting Milicic is the worst draft pick in NBA history (the Bulls admitted they would have taken Bowie too at #2). Also signing Gordon was ok but Villanueva? He has locked up all of his cap space for the greatest free agent summer in NBA history, glad he is not my GM, 1 championship is not what I want.

Where did you read that the Bulls admitted they would have taken Bowie? I've never seen or read or heard anything like this. One of the primary reasons Portland took Bowie was because they already had Drexler. The Bulls had garbage at the 2. Where is your source on this?

 

[jsain360]

Fred wrote:

Hendu0520 wrote:

Drafting Milicic is the worst draft pick in NBA history (the Bulls admitted they would have taken Bowie too at #2). Also signing Gordon was ok but Villanueva? He has locked up all of his cap space for the greatest free agent summer in NBA history, glad he is not my GM, 1 championship is not what I want.

Where did you read that the Bulls admitted they would have taken Bowie? I've never seen or read or heard anything like this. One of the primary reasons Portland took Bowie was because they already had Drexler. The Bulls had garbage at the 2. Where is your source on this?

Just think, in the '83 draft the Bulls took Enis Whatley ahead of Portland, and that pick was Clyde Drexler