JR's cheapness hampering the Bulls

[Diddy1122]

We all know JR is cheap when it comes to the Bulls. But this season it has taken a bigger toll than any other. Gordon situation aside, the Bulls currently only have 13 players on the roster, 1 who will never play, so technically only 12 players. Kirk is out, Tyrus is out. That leaves us 10. Pargo & Hunter are playing injured & Gray is just coming back from injury. So that leaves us with 7. Just 7 fully healthy players.

The Bulls are currently right at the LT threshold of $69mill. There are servicable veterans still out there, Stackhouse currently comes to mind, that can come in, fill a need & be another body out there that is sorely needed. We cannot function as a team with only 12 players all year. It's simply not possible. The Bulls make tons of money, there's no reason why JR can't pay an extra $1-2mill this season so we can atleast COMPETE on a nightly basis. We didn't keep 2 roster spots open in case of a trade, it was done because JR is cheap, no other reason.

 

[TheStig]

We really could have used AI right about now. How often can you get a future HOF player for the league minimum. He's small but Salmons could have given us all the size we needed in the backcourt and he certainly deserves to come off the bench.

Stackhouse is also done, he isn't coming back to the nba. We should have gone after Mccants if we didn't want AI.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Diddy1122 wrote:

We all know JR is cheap when it comes to the Bulls. But this season it has taken a bigger toll than any other. Gordon situation aside, the Bulls currently only have 13 players on the roster, 1 who will never play, so technically only 12 players. Kirk is out, Tyrus is out. That leaves us 10. Pargo & Hunter are playing injured & Gray is just coming back from injury. So that leaves us with 7. Just 7 fully healthy players.

Yeah and with that 7 full healthy players we have a coach who keeps one of these players on the bench most of the time. -.-

 

[TheStig]

Bullseye wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

We all know JR is cheap when it comes to the Bulls. But this season it has taken a bigger toll than any other. Gordon situation aside, the Bulls currently only have 13 players on the roster, 1 who will never play, so technically only 12 players. Kirk is out, Tyrus is out. That leaves us 10. Pargo & Hunter are playing injured & Gray is just coming back from injury. So that leaves us with 7. Just 7 fully healthy players.

Yeah and with that 7 full healthy players we have a coach who keeps one of these players on the bench most of the time. -.-

James Johnson has played lately.

 

[charity stripe]

The sad thing is that the media doesn't even take Reinsdorf to task on his penny pinching ways. He makes horrible decision after horrible decision, and no one even seems to care.

 

[TheStig]

charity stripe wrote:

The sad thing is that the media doesn't even take Reinsdorf to task on his penny pinching ways. He makes horrible decision after horrible decision, and no one even seems to care.

That is the worst, they let him be and praise the team as a young up and coming team. We have been a young team for the past 5 years, its time to grow into a contender. How many times have we heard the baby bulls?

 

[JimmyBulls]

You can't blame JR for having a roster with so much wasted. I don't think JR decided to draft two power forwards, or chose to give charity roster spots to Pargo and Hunter. There were guys that we could've sign for less money that would've had a bigger impact on this basketball team. I think at the end of the day, you have to blame GarPax for building a incomplete roster.

 

[TheStig]

JimmyBulls wrote:

You can't blame JR for having a roster with so much wasted. I don't think JR decided to draft two power forwards, or chose to give charity roster spots to Pargo and Hunter. There were guys that we could've sign for less money that would've had a bigger impact on this basketball team. I think at the end of the day, you have to blame GarPax for building a incomplete roster.

I'm sure he was in on the decision considering he has been involved in player negotiations and coaching interviews. But besides that he is the one who hired gar/pax so ultimately he is responsible for their action and oversees the final product as chairman. Not to mention its not a roster issue to bring in more people but it is strictly financial.

 

[JimmyBulls]

No, when you have a mandate not to go into the luxury tax, and you have so many wasted roster spots, it's a roster issue more than a luxury tax issue. JR hired those guys to do a job and they put together a roster that would be depleted if they suffered a couple injuries. GarPax are in charge of making the basketball decisions and they blew it. JR didn't choose to draft two power forwards, and he didn't choose to sign two guys that gives us no position flexibility like Pargo and Hunter.

GarPax are the basketballs minds that sold this incomplete roster, and the blame should lay directly on their shoulders. I think you have to try really hard to blame the problems with the current roster on JR.

 

[TheStig]

JimmyBulls wrote:

No, when you have a mandate not to go into the luxury tax, and you have so many wasted roster spots, it's a roster issue more than a luxury tax issue. JR hired those guys to do a job and they put together a roster that would be depleted if they suffered a couple injuries. GarPax are in charge of making the basketball decisions and they blew it. JR didn't choose to draft two power forwards, and he didn't choose to sign two guys that gives us no position flexibility like Pargo and Hunter.

GarPax are the basketballs minds that sold this incomplete roster, and the blame should lay directly on their shoulders. I think you have to try really hard to blame the problems with the current roster on JR.

Thats really a interesting way to look at it when JR takes the responsibility of negotiating the two biggest deals on the team away from the GM. JR negotiated Deng's deal and pitched for Wallace's deal. You can't make it Gar/Pax's fault when they don't even sign the biggest deals on the team. Furthermore, drafting two pfs isn't a bad thing. Your supposed to draft bpa and they did. If they didn't draft two pfs we wouldn't have anyone to play there now. So I don't see how that could be a problem.

Why is the roster incomplete. It is actually pretty well rounded and has a solid 8 man rotation when healthy. Thomas breaking his arm is afreak accident and couldn't be forseen and no one thought that Kirks injury would be reoccuring.

 

[JimmyBulls]

Like I thought, more Ben Gordon BS. JR didn't want to resign Gordon, and insert baby crying sound effect. I think it's crazy to think long term deals involving big contracts that could compromise future flexibility should be done without owner input. Agree with the decision or not, it's his role as owner of the team to take control when the best interest of the team is on the line. The Wallace deal seemd like a good deal at the time, and the Gordon deal was in the best interest of the Bulls long term. Sure, the Bulls are having short term struggles, but they're still in a strong position to get one of the last few playoff spots in a top heavy East. Most likely, the same position they would've been in if they signed Benny G.

Why is the roster incomplete? Are you kidding me. When your team have a couple injuries, and you have no bench as a result, it's because of a lack of depth on the roster. JJ wasn't the best player available. He was more like a guy that was in a bunch with other mediocore players. This idea that he was head and shoulders over the available is absolute nonsense. And when you look at the fact that the Bulls will probably sign a free agent at his position, it's makes the draft pick even more wasteful. That roster spot could've been given to a small forward that won't sit because he can't defend the position(Casspi). That would've had a impact in the area of our depleted bench. Then GarPax signed Pargo and Hunter, guys that are only holding a roster spot at this point. GarPax are still in a position to improve the team buy selling Pargo for a second round pick. That move would allow the Bulls to sign two cheap players and give the team some much needed depth. It's not going to happen because of poor roster management by GarPax. I can't blame JR for the obvious faults of his basketball guys.

 

[Diddy1122]

JimmyBulls wrote:

No, when you have a mandate not to go into the luxury tax, and you have so many wasted roster spots, it's a roster issue more than a luxury tax issue. JR hired those guys to do a job and they put together a roster that would be depleted if they suffered a couple injuries. GarPax are in charge of making the basketball decisions and they blew it. JR didn't choose to draft two power forwards, and he didn't choose to sign two guys that gives us no position flexibility like Pargo and Hunter.

GarPax are the basketballs minds that sold this incomplete roster, and the blame should lay directly on their shoulders. I think you have to try really hard to blame the problems with the current roster on JR.

I'll give you an example, this year, of JR stepping on GarPax's toes. Remember Derrick Byars? Remember how we signed him at the end of training camp? Guess what that did, it took us into LT territory, & guess who got cut the very next day. That's right, Byars. Please explain to me why Gar would sign this kid only to cut him 1 day later. And boy wouldn't he look alot better out there right now than a broken down Hunter & the garbage man Pargo?

The fact remains that this is a 12 man roster. NO TEAMS SURVIVE WITH JUST A 12 MAN ROSTER. NONE. Injuries are inevitable in the NBA, which is why MOST teams sign 15 players, & why they changed the inactive player rules from a required 5 days inactive to no required days. We are close to the LT because of the Deng & Wallace deals, both which JR oversaw, & are now left with an incomplete roster because of JR's insistence on never going into LT territory.

 

[TheStig]

JimmyBulls wrote:

Like I thought, more Ben Gordon BS. JR didn't want to resign Gordon, and insert baby crying sound effect. I think it's crazy to think long term deals involving big contracts that could compromise future flexibility should be done without owner input. Agree with the decision or not, it's his role as owner of the team to take control when the best interest of the team is on the line. The Wallace deal seemd like a good deal at the time, and the Gordon deal was in the best interest of the Bulls long term. Sure, the Bulls are having short term struggles, but they're still in a strong position to get one of the last few playoff spots in a top heavy East. Most likely, the same position they would've been in if they signed Benny G.

Why is the roster incomplete? Are you kidding me. When your team have a couple injuries, and you have no bench as a result, it's because of a lack of depth on the roster. JJ wasn't the best player available. He was more like a guy that was in a bunch with other mediocore players. This idea that he was head and shoulders over the available is absolute nonsense. And when you look at the fact that the Bulls will probably sign a free agent at his position, it's makes the draft pick even more wasteful. That roster spot could've been given to a small forward that won't sit because he can't defend the position(Casspi). That would've had a impact in the area of our depleted bench. Then GarPax signed Pargo and Hunter, guys that are only holding a roster spot at this point. GarPax are still in a position to improve the team buy selling Pargo for a second round pick. That move would allow the Bulls to sign two cheap players and give the team some much needed depth. It's not going to happen because of poor roster management by GarPax. I can't blame JR for the obvious faults of his basketball guys.

Why are you bringing up BG? I didn't at all. Then you complain about people complaining about BG. Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy if you are going to start nonsense like that. I'm not even going to discuss it because its just going to take away from the discussion. I was talking about Deng and Walalce. JR took paxson out of Deng's negotiations, you can't then blame him for not having control over the top two salaries on his team. Wallace and Deng make more than 33% of the LT threshold and are not stars.

I think your assessment of the roster is too focused on today rather than when it was assembled. You can't expect Kirk, TT, Pargo, Hunter, Gray, James and Rose to be injured at the same time. No NBA roster has the ability to account for half of it being injured. Sure they could have made moves but it was poor planning on their part. You can only work with what you are given. Pargo is not worth a second round pick, no one in the nba would give him that and two random 10 day contract types wouldn't match his production anyway. This team was built to be mediocre and it is. Without signing BG, what other improvement could you really have made besides trading TT and Kirk for Boozer. Its not like a ton of teams were looking to deal this summer. JJ also has a lot more upside than Cassipi. Cassipi isn't going to be much more than Kopano otherwise he would be able to beat out Noc to be a starter. JJ has a lot of skills and talents that take time to develop.

 

[JimmyBulls]

The LT mandate is there, and you have to build a roster around that mandate. It's not like he just sprung the LT mandate on GarPax recently. But that's why you can't afford to waste roster spots when you have to build a team under the mandate of not going into the tax.

 

[TheStig]

JimmyBulls wrote:

The LT mandate is there, and you have to build a roster around that mandate. It's not like he just sprung the LT mandate on GarPax recently. But that's why you can't afford to waste roster spots when you have to build a team under the mandate of not going into the tax.

Again, its easier said than done when you aren't even handed the full flexibility of the LT mandate. GarPax didn't have 69 Million to work with, they already had a over a third of that taken up by contracts that the owner picked. If he is going to negotiate contracts and interview coaches, he might as well be the GM. Other than Cuban, you don't hear of anyone else having that much interference into the day to day gm duties. GarPax had really no flexibility this offseason, they had their two picks and about 3.5 million to spend. They got a lot of depth out of that with 2 pg's, 2 pfs and a backup c. You can't really fault them since over half their roster is injured now. Sure it might have been short sighted to sign one guy with most of the room but Pargo was a rotation player on a contender his last year in the NBA and gave us some outside shooting, something we currently lack.

Furthermore, Deng's deal undermines the LT. About a 30% of it is defered and will count on the cap while costing JR much less. Annuities like that can be bought for about half the value. Thats a significant undermining of the teams flexibility.

 

[JimmyBulls]

Hunter can't give the team quality production at this point in his career. I think it's safe to say you can blame GarPax on that wasted roster spot. Pargo is a gunner that can't play defense, of course you can blame GarPax for that wasted roster spot. That spot could've and went to another shooting guard, and not left the team with only Salmons and part time shooting guard Hinrich at the two(and yes Salmons is a two). And of course you can blame GarPax for drafting a power forward that Vinny have to play at the three because they drafted another power forward in the first round. The above are not LT problems, but they are roster management problems. I can't blame JR for those errors in team building.

 

[TheStig]

JimmyBulls wrote:

Hunter can't give the team quality production at this point in his career. I think it's safe to say you can blame GarPax on that wasted roster spot. Pargo is a gunner that can't play defense, of course you can blame GarPax for that wasted roster spot. That spot could've and went to another shooting guard, and not left the team with only Salmons and part time shooting guard Hinrich at the two(and yes Salmons is a two). And of course you can blame GarPax for drafting a overweight power forward that you have to play at the three because they drafted another power forward in the first round. The above are not LT problems, but they are roster management problems. I can't blame JR for those errors in team building.

So you are basically upset that the 9-13 guys in our rotation aren't good? They aren't good on any teams. They are meant to barely play. Hunter isn't a rotation player here, he is a coach mentor. Furthermore, he is currently injured, so even if he could give you more, he can't now. Pargo isnt a bad pick up, the guy was a rotational player on a contender and is also injured now. Not everyone on your roster has to be a good defensive player. And Johnson isn't overweight for a PF. He is over weight for a sf but 6'9 245 is not overweight for a pf. It looks like your entire complaint is that we don't have an extra SG. Would derrick byars really have helped us? Furthermore, I don't know how you can blame GarPax on budgeting when they continually run out of spending money despite having the guy that helped write the cba in the front office. Where is Irwin Mandell when all these big deals are being handed out. But you are still looking at the small picture. The big picture worries me much more. We aren't underachieving with this teams talent adn there really was nothing more to add.

 

[jsain360]

TheStig wrote:

We really could have used AI right about now. How often can you get a future HOF player for the league minimum. He's small but Salmons could have given us all the size we needed in the backcourt and he certainly deserves to come off the bench.

Stackhouse is also done, he isn't coming back to the nba. We should have gone after Mccants if we didn't want AI.

I've been screaming from the roof tops for McCants, I know he is low budget, but he gives us a better option than Pargo and Hunter, and would be cheaper, since JR likes to penny pinch

 

[TheStig]

jsain360 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

We really could have used AI right about now. How often can you get a future HOF player for the league minimum. He's small but Salmons could have given us all the size we needed in the backcourt and he certainly deserves to come off the bench.

Stackhouse is also done, he isn't coming back to the nba. We should have gone after Mccants if we didn't want AI.

I've been screaming from the roof tops for McCants, I know he is low budget, but he gives us a better option than Pargo and Hunter, and would be cheaper, since JR likes to penny pinch

McCants isn't getting a shot because he has a really bad rep. Pargo will definitely get better, he is just still injured. I do however think we should have just made hunter an assistant and gotten an actual player since we knew Pargo, Hunter, James and Gray would all be injured to start the year.