Kirk's March and 3 Questions for Next Year

[Fred]

I'm just want to point something out that you won't hear from Funk or the local media. In March, our starting shooting guard was again called on to score for the Bulls due to injuries. Kirk averaged 32 minutes per game in 14 games played (suspended for 1). For 459 total minutes played, Kirk responded with a total of 7 points from the free throw line (12 total attempts). He shot 30% from the 3-point line for the month of March (15-50). If you take out his 4-4 game against Houston on 3.22, he shot 23% from long distance for the month. Overall, he shot 39% for the month 55-138. That's a complete pile of suck, although the feistiness and glue he provided more than made up for it.

To blame our horrible month completely on injuries is simply masking the fact that our highly paid starting shooting guard has been terrible when we needed him to step up. This was highlighted for me by the embarrassingly unprofessional performance put forth by Neil Funk on Sunday, who reveled in Gordon's struggles. I found it somewhat humorous that despite BG's injuries and problems in Detroit, Funk never once noticed that BG still had a higher overall shooting percentage than his favorite son Kirk for this season, who he never ceases to praise.

So finally, my questions regarding next year:
a. Assuming we add Chris Bosh, and Kirk is again our starting 2 instead of a bench player, how many games do we win?
b. Is the current Bulls team + Bosh better than LeBron's Cavs, assuming he stays in Cleveland?
c. Is the current Bulls team + Bosh better than the Heat, assuming Amare signs with them in the offseason and Wade stays put?

I say we would be extremely close to the Heat. But we would still have a massive hole without quality outside shooters that extend the d. If we can bring in Korver, that would help, although he is a disgrace on the defensive end. Depending on Deng's health, we could be a bit better than the Heat + Amare. I still think LeBron would make the Cavs better. What say you?

 

[houheffna]

Outside shooters grow on trees, some teams have so many of them, they can't play them. That said if the Bulls get Bosh they are better than the Heat, Bosh is a better player than Amare. BG is not important in that argument, neither is Kirk, Rose is much better than either of them. Finding a shooter to play with Rose in the backcourt is not a "massive hole". You can find someone to shoot from distance, and they can do it for cheap, hell, go get Courtney Lee from New Jersey, he might be available (just an example, there are better options). But I think Bosh is top 10 in the league right now. He and Noah would be an unbelievable duo in the frontcourt I believe.

 

[pinkizdead]

Fred wrote:

So finally, my questions regarding next year:
a. Assuming we add Chris Bosh, and Kirk is again our starting 2 instead of a bench player, how many games do we win?
b. Is the current Bulls team + Bosh better than LeBron's Cavs, assuming he stays in Cleveland?
c. Is the current Bulls team + Bosh better than the Heat, assuming Amare signs with them in the offseason and Wade stays put?

I say we would be extremely close to the Heat. But we would still have a massive hole without quality outside shooters that extend the d. If we can bring in Korver, that would help, although he is a disgrace on the defensive end. Depending on Deng's health, we could be a bit better than the Heat + Amare. I still think LeBron would make the Cavs better. What say you?

right now kirk is asked to be our 2/3 option. he's a terrible player on the offensive end.
he might be better as the 4/5 option. if we get a legit shooting threat, i'd start him and let kirk come off the bench at the 1 and 2. ( preferably i'd trade him for a bag of balls, and have the balls come off the bench. Let's be honest, hinrich is a decent/good bench player that is being paid as a starter. If he was being paid 4million a year, i'd punch everyone, who suggests trading him, in the face.)

with chris bosh we're a 50 win team. With deng rose and noah, we're a 40-42 win team(if healthy. I suppose that's a big "IF") Bosh would allow rose to be 1/2 scoring option, deng would be the 3rd, hinrich and noah are the 4/5 scoring option. he plays decent defense, but he's not going to be able to guard kobe.

This bulls team is filled with scrubs rose noah and deng. We have great depth at the 4/5. If we have Bosh, Deng, Noah, Taj, Miller/replacement,

PF: bosh/taj/noah/deng
C: Noah/ bosh/miller/?/ taj

However their bigmen pose a problem to us as well. Shaq, Z, Varejo are all good to decent Centers. Shaq and Z are damn old, but they still can offer the cavs a lot. Varejo ought to be seeing 30 minutes a night at pf/c, but he's backing up a future Haller famer in decline and Z. Also at pf they have Jameson/hickson/varejo. Admittedly Bosh and Noah are a better duo in terms of overall talent, but they're not significantly better.

Like i said before, we have great depth for big men, but we lack depth everywhere else. Our guards besides rose are complete crap/undersized. (4 inches baby!). Hinrich had 3 underwhelming seasons in a row, it's time to admit he's not a starting sg, and a mediocre pg. Murray is an aging chucker(also undersized, but he's played surprisingly well for us this year) If we resign pargo, i'm punching gar forman in the face.

Compare that to mo williams, Delonte west, gibson, and parker. Besides rose, i think we're beat on every other matchup. Admittedly parker is an aging player, but playing with lebron has allowed him to outperform hinrich. I'd take west/gibson over murray/pargo.

deng is injury prone, but he does a decent job on lebron. JJ has been underwhelming at the 3. Obviously we're beat on this match up too.

Ultimately the cavs are a better team, but i think the crux of the issue will be chemistry. If the bulls are able to play well together/compliment each other, they might be able to take on a significantly better Cavs team. (in other words, we'd need a new coach) .

I'd say we have a better chance with the heat. Amare isn't a center. I dont trust JO staying healthy, and i'm not sure the heat will be able to sign him w/o giving up his bird rights. If they do sign amare, what will they do with beasely? he has a significantly dimminished trade value due to all the bad PR he has been getting. He's averaging 16 pts a game, and reminds me of a less talented jameson(i'm basing this opinion from the 1 heat game that i've watched all year).
Their pgs aren't spectacular. Their sf position is underwhelming.

All in all their roster isn't too much better than ours. If the bulls could have stayed healthy this year, i'd see the bulls being better than the heat. If we added bosh, and the heat added Amare, based on pure talent, i'd say the bulls were significantly better than the heat.

Bulls and Bosh would be a 4/5 best team in the conference.
assuming amare goes to the heat and bulls get bosh, cavs keep lebron. JJ stays in atlanta

1. cavs
2. magic
3. celtics/hawks
4. hawks /celtics/ bulls
5. hawks/bulls
6. bulls/hawks/heat
7.Heat
8. charlotte/milwaukee(assuming skiles doesn't wear out his welcome/bogut can stay healthy)

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

Outside shooters grow on trees, some teams have so many of them, they can't play them. That said if the Bulls get Bosh they are better than the Heat, Bosh is a better player than Amare. BG is not important in that argument, neither is Kirk, Rose is much better than either of them. Finding a shooter to play with Rose in the backcourt is not a "massive hole". You can find someone to shoot from distance, and they can do it for cheap, hell, go get Courtney Lee from New Jersey, he might be available (just an example, there are better options). But I think Bosh is top 10 in the league right now. He and Noah would be an unbelievable duo in the frontcourt I believe.

There's only 17 players in the league right now shooting it better than 40% from the 3-point line. Korver's percentage is unbelievable, and he's number 1. I disagree that they "grow on trees". I think our 3-point shooting is a massive problem, and we better address it somehow next year, or we're not going to do much better than we did this year before the injuries happened...which was basically, a .500 team, despite the greatness of Rose and Noah.

Which one of these guys is likely to join us?
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

 

[houheffna]

We need a frontcourt player. 40% is not the benchmark for a good 3pt shooter. How many guys shot over 40% for last years champions? I can name good 3pt shooters on that team, who shot 40% over the course of the season? 37, 38% is good enough. You are either good at it or you are not. Its not the percentage, its when you hit them. The Rockets got 4 or 5 guys like that, so do the Magic and the Raptors, among other teams. That is not that big a deal man, all of those teams have 3pt shooter trees in their backyards.

By the way man, take the Celtics off of that top teams list, you can play Howlin Wolf's "Going Down Slow" for them, they are done.

 

[pinkizdead]

Fred wrote:

houheffna wrote:

Outside shooters grow on trees, some teams have so many of them, they can't play them. That said if the Bulls get Bosh they are better than the Heat, Bosh is a better player than Amare. BG is not important in that argument, neither is Kirk, Rose is much better than either of them. Finding a shooter to play with Rose in the backcourt is not a "massive hole". You can find someone to shoot from distance, and they can do it for cheap, hell, go get Courtney Lee from New Jersey, he might be available (just an example, there are better options). But I think Bosh is top 10 in the league right now. He and Noah would be an unbelievable duo in the frontcourt I believe.

There's only 17 players in the league right now shooting it better than 40% from the 3-point line. Korver's percentage is unbelievable, and he's number 1. I disagree that they "grow on trees". I think our 3-point shooting is a massive problem, and we better address it somehow next year, or we're not going to do much better than we did this year before the injuries happened...which was basically, a .500 team, despite the greatness of Rose and Noah.

Which one of these guys is likely to join us?
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

morrow might become better defensively. We need a sg who could play some defense, so i have no idea.

 

[Shakes]

Well despite suppossedly being a Kirk lover, I hope he's not starting next year. Draft someone with our first and let them play through mistakes like we did with Taj. But assuming the Bulls are unwilling to do that ...

a) If healthy, I think 55-60 wins. If we had this year's injury situation, low 40s.
b) No, LeBron + anything half decent is the best team in the league. But as we saw last year, being the best team isn't an automatic championship.
c) We were better than the Heat this year when healthy. Rose is young and will get better. So give us Bosh and them Amare (heck, or vice versa) and we're better than the Heat.

 

[Diddy1122]

a) I'd go low to mid 50's. Despite being an albatross on offense, as much as you hate to admit it Fred, Kirk is our best defender & one of the better perimeter defenders in the NBA. And this is not just me talking here, this is opposing players & coaches saying this. If we take the burden of having to be a scoring option away from him I think his numbers might actually go up. Though he will never hit a big shot. That's been proven over & over again from college on up. But I do hope that we resign Murray. I think his game fits in well with the system we have & he's proven already he can step up & score big when needed.
b) No. Lebron + 11 Pargo's is still better than the Bulls, he's just that amazingly great.
c) We are better than the Heat with Bosh. I'm not, nor have I ever been an Amare fan. He's the quintessential me-first player. Everyone can awe at his stats right now but HE'S IN A CONTRACT YEAR. Once he gets his money he will revert back to the same routine he had with the Suns, looking out for #1 & saving all his energy to score. A front court of Bosh & Noah is frightening from a defensive stand point. Bosh is an underrated defender imho. He has all the tools but he's a weak side defender with no strong side defender on his team. Actually no defenders at all. Coupled with Noah, who is a solid strong side defender, I think opposing players can forget about driving the lane. Not to mention you'd be combining 2 of the top 5 rebounders in the game right now. The thought gives me goosebumps.

 

[clonetrooper264]

1) I'm inclined to say 50+ with the continued improvement of Noah and Rose plus the scoring threat from the PF position that we've lacked for so long, that team could be very very good. And that's with Kirk as the starting 2. I ditto what Diddy said (haha alliteration).
2) LeBron + some 4th graders is better than us, he's that good.
3) Yes.

 

[pinkizdead]

Krik our best defender, did you guys see pargo on nash the other night?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Bullsman24]

a. i think we win about 54 games in the first season and we will only improve. i think that bosh is probably the best PF in the game right now, has a great combination of inside and outside game and will take enormous amounts of pressure off of everyone on the team. 54 at least and with a playoff run and potential for more. just remember, a team that's basically jUST bosh is about where the bulls are in the standings, and they have really nothing going for them but bosh.

b. if deng can stay healthy, i think that we are a formidable match for the cavs. deng always plays lebron great and i think our depth is too much for them. that said, they probably win more games at least for the first season, but we beat them head to head with few problems.

c. the way it is right now, rose and bosh is probably about equal to wade and amare. so i'm going to assume the team around them. miami would have little cap room to sign other players, so their depth would probably be mostly beasley, chalmers, and that's really the best of it. we have at worst deng and hinrich who are both better than the two players and we CLEARLY are better outside of those, so i think we win.

 

[houheffna]

b. if deng can stay healthy, i think that we are a formidable match for the cavs. deng always plays lebron great and i think our depth is too much for them. that said, they probably win more games at least for the first season, but we beat them head to head with few problems.

Nobody beats Lebron head to head with few problems...nobody...

 

[Bullsman24]

well jamison is only gonna get worse, the supporting cast around him is pretty bad, i think our depth will be too much for them, especially in the frontcourt. as well, mo got nothing on derrick

 

[houheffna]

Lebron doesn't need much man, they can retool around him easily...