None of the games Bulls played vs Miami mattered

[nwfisch]

I messaged David B. Thorpe, the ESPN writer who had Derrick Rose 5th in the MVP voting.

I said I didn't understand how Rose can be undervalued considering the Bulls beat the Heat 3 times with Wade and James, and how both of them couldn't be more valuable than Rose.

He responded that games didn't matter.

:talktohand:

 

[X]

yeah...but um....if the Heat won all 3, they'd be 1st in the East...and he'd use that for his springboard argument as to why James should be the MVP...even though Bosh and Wade combined this season have missed fewer games than Boozer did on his last stint (8), and they still couldn't beat us.

Besides, Wade is the best player on the Heat.

 

[Glide2keva]

yeah...but um....if the Heat won all 3, they'd be 1st in the East...and he'd use that for his springboard argument as to why James should be the MVP...even though Bosh and Wade combined this season have missed fewer games than Boozer did on his last stint (8), and they still couldn't beat us.

Besides, Wade is the best player on the Heat.

This, especially the last part.

 

[Glide2keva]

I messaged David B. Thorpe, the ESPN writer who had Derrick Rose 5th in the MVP voting.

I said I didn't understand how Rose can be undervalued considering the Bulls beat the Heat 3 times with Wade and James, and how both of them couldn't be more valuable than Rose.

He responded that games didn't matter.

:talktohand:

Haters gunna hate.

 

[Anytime23]

If none of that mattered then what does matter? The post-season? Then how in the world can anyone be ranked?

Fact is LeBron statistically is having a better year but he arguably has the a top 3 player in Wade playing with him and a perennial all-star PF in Bosh. Rose has no current all-stars and a frontcourt thats missed a combined 60 games. Rose's is already making a name as a closer and one of the great team leaders in the NBA. This kid deserves it and a big F U to anyone who doesnt have him in at the very least 2nd place behind Howard.

 

[Uman85]

Who gives a shit about David B. Thorpe? :lmao:

 

[houheffna]

When I first read this, I thought it was about the playoffs, which then I might have agreed with the statement. But this is about MVP....

There are people who want to be the Bill James of the NBA, and want to have a Theo Epstein come up from under their wing, using their theories concerning efficiency and so forth. All it is is shameless self promotion...hoping to hit it big. It worked for Bill James, I don't think it will work for Hollinger and others.

Remember, Hollinger had the Bucks winning the division...why? Because it supports his stat principles...

Lebron is the best player in the league...period. The best player doesn't always win MVP.

 

[nwfisch]

I'm not opposed to anyone else winning the award. I'm just saying I find it disrespectful that 2 Heat players are more valuable than Rose and Bryant.

 

[TopekaRoy]

I messaged David B. Thorpe, the ESPN writer who had Derrick Rose 5th in the MVP voting.

I said I didn't understand how Rose can be undervalued considering the Bulls beat the Heat 3 times with Wade and James, and how both of them couldn't be more valuable than Rose.

He responded that games didn't matter.

:talktohand:

Obviously he is a moron. "Games don't matter?" Games are all that does matter.

What does he know? He has Rose ranked 5th, for crying out loud.

 

[X]

Lebron is the best player in the league...period. The best player doesn't always win MVP.

Agree with everything you said, but this part stuck out. Isn't it possible to be the best player in the league, but not be the most valuable to "your" team? Example? Take Rose off the Bulls and LeBron off the Heat....Heat still have home court advantage 2 series' deep in the playoffs. We would've fought to get in, given the injuries we went through.

just my $.02

 

[houheffna]

Agree with everything you said, but this part stuck out. Isn't it possible to be the best player in the league, but not be the most valuable to "your" team? Example? Take Rose off the Bulls and LeBron off the Heat....Heat still have home court advantage 2 series' deep in the playoffs. We would've fought to get in, given the injuries we went through.

just my $.02

I guess its possible, but very rare. Lebron and Wade are the first time that I remember two top 5 talents played on the same team. So this is breaking new ground. But in that case, the argument can be made that you can be most valuable to the league and not be most valuable to your team.

 

[Anytime23]

When I first read this, I thought it was about the playoffs, which then I might have agreed with the statement. But this is about MVP....

There are people who want to be the Bill James of the NBA, and want to have a Theo Epstein come up from under their wing, using their theories concerning efficiency and so forth. All it is is shameless self promotion...hoping to hit it big. It worked for Bill James, I don't think it will work for Hollinger and others.

Remember, Hollinger had the Bucks winning the division...why? Because it supports his stat principles...

Lebron is the best player in the league...period. The best player doesn't always win MVP.

Thats exactly why I can't stand Hollinger because he doesn't really have opinions, he just goes by what his stats would project. He's like the Trent Dilfer of the NBA, ranking QBs based on SBs because it defends his own career...ok a bit different but flawed none the less.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Steve Nash won the MVP award in 2005 and 2006. In 2005, a case could be made that Nash was not even the 2nd best player on his own team (He, Stoudemire, and Marion were all pretty interchangeable in that regard. Except in '06, Stoudemire was hurt. But I do kind of feel like Marion was the best player on the Suns that year, even though Nash was more valuable.

 

[houheffna]

By the way, Abbott has the Bulls going to the finals...surprised me....

 

[Rick]

Thorpe is from Florida...of course he's gonna be biased. The BooYa network is classic for this, which is why I try not to watch. I'd much rather rely on the internet or local sports radio to get my news and of course CHI CITY SPORTS l Chicago Sports Blog - News - Forum - Rumors - Fans (damn good advertising there, give me some love)

 

[Lex L.]

I think John Hollinger has become irrelevant. The guy has mutilated his genitals and convinced followers to do the same as a sacrifice for his PER stat. I really wish people would realize some very fundamental things: 1) just because a stat is complicated, that doesnt make it valid or good. 2) Any stat that layers over other stats (as all advanced stats do) are subject to even more scrutiny than the more meat and potatoes stats. In other words, since the more meat and potatoes stats are subject to scrutiny being as basic as it gets, a lot of the more complicated stats build on that and, as a result, are even more subject to flaw. 3) A lot of thses guys aren't any more qualified as statisticians than a lot of us who have taken a number of math classes. I can make up my own stats too.

Too many people look at stats as an ending when the vast majority of the time, they should be the beginning.

 

[BogansDPOY]

I think John Hollinger has become irrelevant. The guy has mutilated his genitals and convinced followers to do the same as a sacrifice for his PER stat. I really wish people would realize some very fundamental things: 1) just because a stat is complicated, that doesnt make it valid or good. 2) Any stat that layers over other stats (as all advanced stats do) are subject to even more scrutiny than the more meat and potatoes stats. In other words, since the more meat and potatoes stats are subject to scrutiny being as basic as it gets, a lot of the more complicated stats build on that and, as a result, are even more subject to flaw. 3) A lot of thses guys aren't any more qualified as statisticians than a lot of us who have taken a number of math classes. I can make up my own stats too.

Too many people look at stats as an ending when the vast majority of the time, they should be the beginning.

Bingo. I always re-read the quote below when I get steamed at reading a stat-based article bashing DRose undeservedly.

"Statistics are like a drunk with a lampost: used more for support than illumination."
-Sir Winston Churchill

A lot of these stat-based writers seem to validate that quote.

 

[houheffna]

Bingo. I always re-read the quote below when I get steamed at reading a stat-based article bashing DRose undeservedly.

"Statistics are like a drunk with a lampost: used more for support than illumination."
-Sir Winston Churchill

A lot of these stat-based writers seem to validate that quote.

I thought that was a Vin Scully quote? He stole it from Churchill...wow...didn't know that...used that quote a lot in my bullspodcasters days...lol

 

[BogansDPOY]

I thought that was a Vin Scully quote? He stole it from Churchill...wow...didn't know that...used that quote a lot in my bullspodcasters days...lol

Lol...well, it's possible Churchill also stole it from someone else..maybe a Roman general or something.

 

[Gunzaan]

When I first read this, I thought it was about the playoffs, which then I might have agreed with the statement. But this is about MVP....

There are people who want to be the Bill James of the NBA, and want to have a Theo Epstein come up from under their wing, using their theories concerning efficiency and so forth. All it is is shameless self promotion...hoping to hit it big. It worked for Bill James, I don't think it will work for Hollinger and others.

Remember, Hollinger had the Bucks winning the division...why? Because it supports his stat principles...

Lebron is the best player in the league...period. The best player doesn't always win MVP.

I completely agree, and if you want to talk about the playoffs, as opposed to the MVP race, then those games won't matter at all if it's Bulls - Heat in the ECF.