On board the Nelson train

[msadows]

Hey, if we get Norwell you won't see me complain. Not sure about the assessment on Hernandez or Wynn, but I'll look more into it. If one of the defensive gems slip (Fitzpatrick, Chubb) slip, I would be all for that in the top 10. Severely unlikely, but after them I'm not big on Davenport, Ridley, Ward. I'd rather get the safe piece that we can immediately plug. Just my philosophy.

So do you know any of the strengths/weaknesses of those players? Because ridley might be the most nfl ready WR since amari cooper. He is expected to come in and start day 1 and contribute. Thats his whole entire appeal and why he is the only real WR with a first round grade. His game is nfl ready and polished.

 

[pseudonym]

So do you know any of the strengths/weaknesses of those players? Because ridley might be the most nfl ready WR since amari cooper. He is expected to come in and start day 1 and contribute. Thats his whole entire appeal and why he is the only real WR with a first round grade. His game is nfl ready and polished.

True, but he didn't blow away the combine.

"9. The wide receiver group isn’t top-heavy, and there are plenty of questions, and that has to be an area of concern for the Bears. Alabama’s Calvin Ridley is the top wide receiver in the bunch and he helped himself by running the 40-yard dash in 4.43 seconds, but his other testing scores were a little concerning. Don’t get me wrong. Ridley is a fine prospect who gets top marks in terms of character and is the best route runner in the draft. But his vertical jump was only 31 inches and his broad jump was 9-2. Those are low numbers for the position. His short shuttle was 4.41 seconds, which isn’t good, although his three-cone score was good at 6.88 seconds. He’s the best receiver in the draft, but he’s only 6-foot, 189 pounds and his arms are 31 inches and he has small hands. What I’m saying is that could make it difficult for a team to consider Ridley a top-10 pick. He’ll come in as a pretty polished wide receiver in terms of his ability to run routes, but will he be a dynamic playmaker? You’ve got to be able to answer that question if you’re talking about a top-10 pick, in my opinion."

 

[msadows]

You don't get it the most important part of a team is OL. Without players in the trenches none of those players you mentioned are worth a shit.

You also don't need a #8 pick and a #17 pick as your starting interior to have a good OL. You can also regularly find those interior lineman in free agency, which is what the eagles did.

Hard to find talent without issues at EDGE/WR in FA, not very hard to find good talent at guard/center due to the fact that oline isn't really valued that much....

 

[msadows]

True, but he didn't blow away the combine.

"9. The wide receiver group isn’t top-heavy, and there are plenty of questions, and that has to be an area of concern for the Bears. Alabama’s Calvin Ridley is the top wide receiver in the bunch and he helped himself by running the 40-yard dash in 4.43 seconds, but his other testing scores were a little concerning. Don’t get me wrong. Ridley is a fine prospect who gets top marks in terms of character and is the best route runner in the draft. But his vertical jump was only 31 inches and his broad jump was 9-2. Those are low numbers for the position. His short shuttle was 4.41 seconds, which isn’t good, although his three-cone score was good at 6.88 seconds. He’s the best receiver in the draft, but he’s only 6-foot, 189 pounds and his arms are 31 inches and he has small hands. What I’m saying is that could make it difficult for a team to consider Ridley a top-10 pick. He’ll come in as a pretty polished wide receiver in terms of his ability to run routes, but will he be a dynamic playmaker? You’ve got to be able to answer that question if you’re talking about a top-10 pick, in my opinion."

While his combine was pretty trash(hopefully he improves on it in his pro day), I dont think it will affect his draft stock one bit. He essentially said the same thing in his combine interview. Scouts, and pace too, mostly rely on tape. If you watch tape of the guy, even running in shorts, you see the most fluid wideout in this draft by a mile.

Now is his upside going to be elite? Prob not, but he will at minimum be a very good #2 from day one with reliable hands who can get open on every 3rd down we need a conversion for. I take that at #8. A lot of his same knocks people knocked OBJ for a few years back. Said he was too small, issues beating press, concentration drops, lack of 50/50 ball ability, mediocre blocker at best, etc.

When a prospects biggest issues are his weight(plenty of wideouts who play around 190) and his age, you know the guy is polished.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Nelson is not the only guard in the draft, or FA for that matter.

For all we know we sign norwell in 11 days, or pugh, or fulton, who are all more than adequate. Shit norwell is prob better than Nelson. Can't go much higher than ALL PRO.

Btw, Hernandez is just as good in the run game as nelson. Same with Wynn. Those are potential 2nd round prospects.

Or you can trade down, recoup your 3rd rounder, and pick billy price who could be a great center and play whitehair at guard.

Picking a guard in the top 10 is stupid, theres a reason why theres been probowl guards in FA the last 4 years. Theres also a reason teams dont waste a franchise tag on a guard. They are replaceable.

Nelson will be good. He also plays one of the least important positions in football that are the easiest to replace. FYI, the eagles didnt even draft their damn guards last year and they won the superbowl without their QB getting knocked on his ass.

Hernandez won't make it to the second. Bank on it.

 

[nc0gnet0]

This board just doesn't get it.

QB, WR, CB, LT, EDGE are the top paid positions in the NFL because they are the most important positions in the NFL. With a top 10 pick you want to hit on one of those positions so you have them for 5 years at a bargain price vs. blowing your load on a free agent QB, WR, LT, CB, or EDGE because you drafted a guard at #8.

It's more than picking the top player, positional value matters because of the long term economic effects on your salary cap.

But But but........

 

[msadows]

Hernandez won't make it to the second. Bank on it.

Whitehair was projected a late first. He made to to what...56?

You don't know that, and even if he doesn't there is still daniels, price, wynn, etc.

 

[xer0h0ur]

There is always a shot man....The olineman sports illustrated called the best offensive lineman ever ended up a bust. NOTHING IS CERTAIN IN THE NFL.

And I've said this a million times now, its almost like beating a dead horse, 5 years ago Warmack was touted nearly as highly as Nelson is this year. He was the #3 prospect that draft class. He ended up being a superbowl champ.....ON THE BENCH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Mandarich

Nothing is guaranteed in football. One thing that is guaranteed is that there is more than one pro bowl potential guard in this draft, and they wont require the #8 pick. Only way I am for nelson is if they draft him wanting to play him at RT from day one. If we drafted him to play guard we might as well just trade with buffalo, grab 21 and 22, and pick up hernandez and kirk

Look, wanna make a signature bet or something with me on that one? I'm down. I don't buy it for a second that Nelson will be a bust.

 

[msadows]

Look, wanna make a signature bet or something with me on that one? I'm down. I don't buy it for a second that Nelson will be a bust.

LOL i dont give a fuck if nelson is a bust or not, my point is ANYONE can bust. You said there is zero shot, thats just not true for any player in the history of any sport.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Whitehair was projected a late first. He made to to what...56?

You don't know that, and even if he doesn't there is still daniels, price, wynn, etc.

Btw, Hernandez is just as good in the run game as nelson. Same with Wynn. Those are potential 2nd round prospects.

I was just commenting about Hernandez because your brought him up, easy there...

I do know that, care to make a wager?

 

[nc0gnet0]

Look, wanna make a signature bet or something with me on that one? I'm down. I don't buy it for a second that Nelson will be a bust.

When it's put up or shut up time most run away with their tails between their legs............

But, you might want to quantify "bust".

 

[tgmxd]

There is always a shot man....The olineman sports illustrated called the best offensive lineman ever ended up a bust. NOTHING IS CERTAIN IN THE NFL.

And I've said this a million times now, its almost like beating a dead horse, 5 years ago Warmack was touted nearly as highly as Nelson is this year. He was the #3 prospect that draft class. He ended up being a superbowl champ.....ON THE BENCH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Mandarich

Nothing is guaranteed in football. One thing that is guaranteed is that there is more than one pro bowl potential guard in this draft, and they wont require the #8 pick. Only way I am for nelson is if they draft him wanting to play him at RT from day one. If we drafted him to play guard we might as well just trade with buffalo, grab 21 and 22, and pick up hernandez and kirk

Agreed we should all recognize this by now. It's okay to get excited about these guys but there is always a chance.

The generationally talented prospects are just the guys who usually have the lowest chance of failing

But it is always there.

 

[xer0h0ur]

When it's put up or shut up time most run away with their tails between their legs............

But, you might want to quantify "bust".

Its quite simple really. Not being a starting guard. You can take that another step if you like and say he should be one of the better starting guards in the NFL before his rookie contract is done. That leans closer to the sort of expectation fans like to put on high drafted players.

 

[BearFanJohn]

Listening to some sports radio and they were talking about Nelson or Nelson-like guards that come along just every once in a while. And while the point was that the downside is, yes, the pick isn't glamorous. However, if the Bears consider this guy an almost generational OG, and it has been discussed, then the pick does make some sense. While Nelson nor his work will show up directly in stats and his work won't be glamorous that doesn't mean he isn't highly effective. A great guard keeps your QB clean while he throws to a WR. A great guard who call pull and get to the next level, and be highly effective, breaks your RB lose. If he becomes a long term starter and leader on the field, he could be worth it.

I am not in favor or drafting him at #8 but worse things can happen. If they don't get a guard in FA, and I sort of think they will, he would be an obvious pick.

 

[msadows]

Thats cool and all, but there has been a pro bowl guard hit FA every offseason the last 4 years.

I'd rather spend my #8 pick on a position where its difficult to acquire above average talent thru free agency. I'm pretty sure thats what the draft is for?

But yes, nelson should be good. How much better will he be than hernandez and wynn to validate using a top 10 selection on him, however?

 

[pseudonym]

While his combine was pretty trash(hopefully he improves on it in his pro day), I dont think it will affect his draft stock one bit. He essentially said the same thing in his combine interview. Scouts, and pace too, mostly rely on tape. If you watch tape of the guy, even running in shorts, you see the most fluid wideout in this draft by a mile.

Now is his upside going to be elite? Prob not, but he will at minimum be a very good #2 from day one with reliable hands who can get open on every 3rd down we need a conversion for. I take that at #8. A lot of his same knocks people knocked OBJ for a few years back. Said he was too small, issues beating press, concentration drops, lack of 50/50 ball ability, mediocre blocker at best, etc.

When a prospects biggest issues are his weight(plenty of wideouts who play around 190) and his age, you know the guy is polished.

In the end it won't effect his draft stock MUCH, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him NOT be the first WR off the board. Hearing some people put Sutton above him. Kirk also had a great combine. But yes, I do think Ridley is still a great WR. Would love to have him on the Bears, maybe just not at #8.

 

[Icemanx]

In the end it won't effect his draft stock MUCH, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him NOT be the first WR off the board. Hearing some people put Sutton above him. Kirk also had a great combine. But yes, I do think Ridley is still a great WR. Would love to have him on the Bears, maybe just not at #8.

Definitely do not want Ridley at 8, if they traded down and got him I would be okay with that. But would rather get Edmunds in the first.

 

[msadows]

In the end it won't effect his draft stock MUCH, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him NOT be the first WR off the board. Hearing some people put Sutton above him. Kirk also had a great combine. But yes, I do think Ridley is still a great WR. Would love to have him on the Bears, maybe just not at #8.

Any former WR or GM/scout ive seen have said that ridley was the most impressive at the combine as far as his pass catching drills go.

I don't really want a big guy who runs mediocre routes, I don't think it fits mitches game at all. If sutton goes before ridley I'll be shocked, I'm predicting he goes 4th actually behind DJ Moore who had a much more impressive combine to me.

 

[msadows]

Definitely do not want Ridley at 8, if they traded down and got him I would be okay with that. But would rather get Edmunds in the first.

So if we dont get landry, robinson, or watkins.

Our FA aquisitions are albert wilson and john brown. You think #8 is too high for the best WR in the draft at our worst position?

Edmunds is my favorite player in this draft class who should be there at 8, but the reality is even if edmunds becomes a probowler it won't mean shit if mitchell becomes a bust. Our team will still be bottom feeders.'

Thats why I think there is zero difference between taking the top wr at #8 or #15, because you risk him being taken at 9 or 10 or 11 or 13

 

[pseudonym]

Any former WR or GM/scout ive seen have said that ridley was the most impressive at the combine as far as his pass catching drills go.

I don't really want a big guy who runs mediocre routes, I don't think it fits mitches game at all. If sutton goes before ridley I'll be shocked, I'm predicting he goes 4th actually behind DJ Moore who had a much more impressive combine to me.

Should be interesting. I'm still trying to sort out the WRs. What happens with Chalk, Moore, St. Brown, Cobbs? Really depends on who we get in FA, as far as the draft. Not sure who I'd take in the 2nd right now.

Definitely do not want Ridley at 8, if they traded down and got him I would be okay with that. But would rather get Edmunds in the first.

Agree.