One thing this CBA Dispute will tell Hawks fans...

[EspoForever]

I have been thinking about something as I have seen this year's CBA dispute going on, forgive me if this has been discussed, but I have not seen it.



I believe Hawks fans will find out how materially different our current Mr. Wirtz is from the previous Mr. Wirtz.



We all know how "Dollar Bill" would get into negotiatons and if a player did not roll over for the Organ-I-zation, Dollar Bill would take it personally, lose his mind and ship key players away irrationally. The best example is Roenick who wanted $4M. Bill was insulted, lost his mind and traded JR for Zhamnov. Alex was a player half as valuable as JR, he was also having contract stink with his team. Then Wirtz paid Alex $4M just to rub JR's nose in it. Insane. Irrational. Not for the best interest of the team.



Now...2012. A new Wirtz. CBA battle is going on and Jonathan Toews is out front supporting the NHLPA. What does Rocky Wirtz do? Does he set aside his feelings and do what's best for the Blackhawks...or does he act like his Dad and become irrational?

 

[IceHogsFan]

Interesting perspective

 

[jakobeast]

I could see Rocky not being silly like Bill. Keep in mind, Bill had the likes Pulford in his ear. Rocky has McDunno, who is all about the marketing and sellability of the team. Pulford didn't give a crap about marketability.



The old gaurd is gone. In now is the new, and with that comes their need for money. I don't see Rocky/McD/whatever marketing asshat that is in there cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

[EspoForever]

I could see Rocky not being silly like Bill. Keep in mind, Bill had the likes Pulford in his ear. Rocky has McDunno, who is all about the marketing and sellability of the team. Pulford didn't give a crap about marketability.



The old gaurd is gone. In now is the new, and with that comes their need for money. I don't see Rocky/McD/whatever marketing asshat that is in there cutting their nose off to spite their face.

Good point, Jako. I've been quitely worrying about that situation and your words of wisdom are calming...grin.

 

[PatrickShart]

Roenick's leaving had a lot to do with his mouth and his agent...he ran himself out of Chicago more then Bill ran him out



Zhamnov signed a 5yr 15mil dollar deal with CHI

Roenick's was a 5yr 20mil dollar deal with PHX...coming off his knee injury. And he was so loyal to PHX for trading for him, he bolted at the end of that contract to PHI for more money again ..5yrs 37mil.



Fact is, he never came close to any of the numbers he had after leaving CHI. His head and mouth got way too big.

 

[R K]

Roenick's leaving had a lot to do with his mouth and his agent...he ran himself out of Chicago more then Bill ran him out



Zhamnov signed a 5yr 15mil dollar deal with CHI

Roenick's was a 5yr 20mil dollar deal with PHX...coming off his knee injury. And he was so loyal to PHX for trading for him, he bolted at the end of that contract to PHI for more money again ..5yrs 37mil.



Fact is, he never came close to any of the numbers he had after leaving CHI. His head and mouth got way too big.

Spoken for truth.



His biggest problem ever, his mouth.

 

[Ton]

Spoken for truth.



His biggest problem ever, his mouth.

It's still his biggest problem... such a problem it landed him a gig on national television due to sheer entertainment. That said, Jonathan Toews and Jeremy Roenick shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, although that all can change in a few years... I'd like to believe (and truly do believe) that Toews won't fall along that path, he's a true leader and very level-headed, not a hot-headed idiot that rambles on emotion. One was a bumbling idiot with talent, the other an even-keeled leader that has completed the trifecta of hockey perfection in his short career.



Whether Rocky can hold a grudge like Bill is yet to be determined, but again I'd like to think that he is a bit more level-headed and has a bit more common sense when it comes to business. Peter may have been different in that regard. Heart is important, but sometimes the man at the top has to be heartless and rely on results to be successful. Rocky seems to be that kind of guy where he doesn't let emotion get in the way of profit (notice I did not mention success, which could be his biggest fault). Not saying Peter wouldn't have been a good owner, but Bill held grudges and let his emotion dictate the awful future this franchise endured, but also had a part in resurrecting it. Peter may have been the same way, or maybe not, we'll never know. That's the way I see it at least.

 

[R K]

It's still his biggest problem... such a problem it landed him a gig on national television due to sheer entertainment. That said, Jonathan Toews and Jeremy Roenick shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, although that all can change in a few years... I'd like to believe (and truly do believe) that Toews won't fall along that path, he's a true leader and very level-headed, not a hot-headed idiot that rambles on emotion. One was a bumbling idiot with talent, the other an even-keeled leader that has completed the trifecta of hockey perfection in his short career.



Whether Rocky can hold a grudge like Bill is yet to be determined, but again I'd like to think that he is a bit more level-headed and has a bit more common sense when it comes to business. Peter may have been different in that regard. Heart is important, but sometimes the man at the top has to be heartless and rely on results to be successful. Rocky seems to be that kind of guy where he doesn't let emotion get in the way of profit (notice I did not mention success, which could be his biggest fault). Not saying Peter wouldn't have been a good owner, but Bill held grudges and let his emotion dictate the awful future this franchise endured, but also had a part in resurrecting it. Peter may have been the same way, or maybe not, we'll never know. That's the way I see it at least.

Where exactly do you think Rocky got all his money?



This wasn't a business to Bill, it was a Hobby. Please don't ever do that again. Bill Wirtz was twice the business man Rocky is. In fact, he taught Rocky exactly what he knows.



And you confuse "grudge" for "Loyalty". They are two completely different things.



Rocky has more business sense than Bill.... Yea and the silver spoon Bill shoved up his ass. He's turned Bills "Hobby" into his Business.



Peter and Rocky were made by Bill. No question.

 

[Ton]

Where exactly do you think Rocky got all his money?



This wasn't a business to Bill, it was a Hobby. Please don't ever do that again. Bill Wirtz was twice the business man Rocky is. In fact, he taught Rocky exactly what he knows.



And you confuse "grudge" for "Loyalty". They are two completely different things.



Rocky has more business sense than Bill.... Yea and the silver spoon Bill shoved up his ass. He's turned Bills "Hobby" into his Business.



Peter and Rocky were made by Bill. No question.

I won't argue any of that. In that light, I would have rather used "hobby" rather than "grudge"... and from that view, I think Rocky is looking at this franchise more from a business stance than a hobby, therefore I think he will make better decisions than Bill. That said, I don't think we will look at so many ups and downs, just the bottom line at what brings in a profit. Hence the McD hiring.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Roenick's leaving had a lot to do with his mouth and his agent...he ran himself out of Chicago more then Bill ran him out



Zhamnov signed a 5yr 15mil dollar deal with CHI

Roenick's was a 5yr 20mil dollar deal with PHX...coming off his knee injury. And he was so loyal to PHX for trading for him, he bolted at the end of that contract to PHI for more money again ..5yrs 37mil.



Fact is, he never came close to any of the numbers he had after leaving CHI. His head and mouth got way too big.

That PHX contract was about 250k more a year that what Bill publicly offered. JR just felt he worth far more than he was going to be paid anywhere at that time. His head, at that time, ruined him more than anything else..something I think he only recently understood.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I would also like to point out that Archie was far from a bad player. Look up his stats...and most of his seasons in Chicago was with crap support.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

It's still his biggest problem... such a problem it landed him a gig on national television due to sheer entertainment. That said, Jonathan Toews and Jeremy Roenick shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, although that all can change in a few years... I'd like to believe (and truly do believe) that Toews won't fall along that path, he's a true leader and very level-headed, not a hot-headed idiot that rambles on emotion. One was a bumbling idiot with talent, the other an even-keeled leader that has completed the trifecta of hockey perfection in his short career.



Whether Rocky can hold a grudge like Bill is yet to be determined, but again I'd like to think that he is a bit more level-headed and has a bit more common sense when it comes to business. Peter may have been different in that regard. Heart is important, but sometimes the man at the top has to be heartless and rely on results to be successful. Rocky seems to be that kind of guy where he doesn't let emotion get in the way of profit (notice I did not mention success, which could be his biggest fault). Not saying Peter wouldn't have been a good owner, but Bill held grudges and let his emotion dictate the awful future this franchise endured, but also had a part in resurrecting it. Peter may have been the same way, or maybe not, we'll never know. That's the way I see it at least.

Not sure that it will be Rocky that would be the one to hold a "grudge"...however, even that one that would is smart enough to bend to the overwhelming fan will.

 

[EspoForever]

I would also like to point out that Archie was far from a bad player. Look up his stats...and most of his seasons in Chicago was with crap support.

Was not intending to debate Roenick vs Zhamnov, but if we must, Roenick scored over 500 goals, Zhamnov less than half that. Roenick also out-paced Zhamnov by a wide margin post trade.



Roenick was also emotional...you can call it a problem, but I'll take a guy who plays with passion over a soft player who is easy to play against any day. This is no knock on Zhamnov...he is who he is, and he was a hell of a smooth skater, but to say that taking him for Roenick was a rational decision is silly IMO. But again that was one example and not the main point I was making.



I am just keeping an eye out for whether this Wirtz is holding a grudge.

 

[R K]

zhamnov was certainly no JR thats for sure. I doubt Rocky has the same loyalty issues Bill did and he's certainly ONLY here to make money, IE check the ticket prices. Dealing one of the stars is not helpful in that respect.



Bill didn't give a shit about the money obviously.

 

[PatrickShart]

Zhamnov coming here had a lot to do with Mike Smith wanting him here as well.



If Roenick were offered to other teams...I think the Hawks could have done better. But Mike Smith wanted his Euro's.



Hawks were in on Lindros for Roenick before that...but the Hawks backed down from that trade. So there were plenty of teams that would have given up alot for JR, if they had a better GM.









......Hawks did get Craig Mills in the deal too.........

 

[R K]

Zhamnov coming here had a lot to do with Mike Smith wanting him here as well.



If Roenick were offered to other teams...I think the Hawks could have done better. But Mike Smith wanted his Euro's.



Hawks were in on Lindros for Roenick before that...but the Hawks backed down from that trade. So there were plenty of teams that would have given up alot for JR, if they had a better GM.









......Hawks did get Craig Mills in the deal too.........

I said JR was greedy and Sassone was all over me. talk about fandom and not being a impartial reporter last night.



JR was greedy. He most certainly could have stayed but his Mouth got ahead of him as always.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Was not intending to debate Roenick vs Zhamnov, but if we must, Roenick scored over 500 goals, Zhamnov less than half that. Roenick also out-paced Zhamnov by a wide margin post trade.



Roenick was also emotional...you can call it a problem, but I'll take a guy who plays with passion over a soft player who is easy to play against any day. This is no knock on Zhamnov...he is who he is, and he was a hell of a smooth skater, but to say that taking him for Roenick was a rational decision is silly IMO. But again that was one example and not the main point I was making.



I am just keeping an eye out for whether this Wirtz is holding a grudge.

I completely agree that JR's emotional side is one of the things that made him such a strong player, unfortunately it doomed him with the Hawks when he decided to go public with contract demands....I am sure not too many owners or GM's like that kind of thing anyway.



Also, Archie was definitely not a complete replacement for JR, but he was no pile of dung either. Given the talent slide that was occurring, Archie had little chance to be great but his numbers were pretty good with what he had to work with for the whole of his time with the Hawks. I am sure that JR's numbers would have decreased with the lack of talent had he stayed with the Hawks as well..that and his breaking down body from the strong physical play of his.

 

[R K]

most JR fans overlook his mouth which has continued to have his foot implanted in it long after he departed from here.



Great player, but an IDIOT on many different levels beyond that.

 

[PatrickShart]

There were several veteran players at that time/on those teams telling him he should tone it down...and get rid of his agent. He wanted no part of it

 

[R K]

Similar to Amonte. Most people don't realize after his agent fucked everything up Amonte went back to the Hawks to take their offer. By that time it was far to late.



Most have zero clue where agents and what they do or don't do, fit into the equation.