OT: anyone follow the mets? ESPN was talking about their fans hating Harvey

[beckdawg]

Was watching a clip about 5 potential trade guys during the offseason with Dave Shoenfield(sp?) and Eric Karabel and they were talking about Mets fans hating Harvey. Karabel mentioned him for Castro as a possibility. Did I miss something? Granted I don't pay a ton of attention to the mets but I recall their fans wearing batman masks and calling him the dark knight. Also looking at his numbers the dude has pitched well. What am I missing here?

 

[CSF77]

http://nypost.com/2015/09/05/mets-fans-wont-forget-matt-harveys-a-hypocrite/

 

[CSF77]

Seems like a MYC hate fest to me. The bottom line is Harvey was a cy young level pitcher and is coming off of T.J. I believe that he doesn't want to risk the cash potential. IE Mark Prior stuff. But the NY fan base is a bunch of tough guy menataity and he has to play up to it.

So he is being tagged as a poser for not wanting to risk his future and the fan base IMO are a bunch of bone heads.

Think about if for a second. Would you lose 150 mil-200 mil over the span of your career just over rolling the dice on a play off run? I know I'm not that stupid.

 

[beckdawg]

Seems like a MYC hate fest to me. The bottom line is Harvey was a cy young level pitcher and is coming off of T.J. I believe that he doesn't want to risk the cash potential. IE Mark Prior stuff. But the NY fan base is a bunch of tough guy menataity and he has to play up to it.

So he is being tagged as a poser for not wanting to risk his future and the fan base IMO are a bunch of bone heads.

Think about if for a second. Would you lose 150 mil-200 mil over the span of your career just over rolling the dice on a play off run? I know I'm not that stupid.

I mean if they are stupid enough to trade him as the article suggests now would be the worst time with all the FA pitchers coming up. The video suggested Shoenfield thought it would take more than Castro but I'm not entirely sure anymore especially if Castro keeps playing well in the 2nd half. I mean I could see it costing them someone like Villanueva as a second tier prospect with Castro but I don't think anyone is going to pay 2 premium pieces for him and there's not much out there for SS especially with Tulow getting traded. Should be interesting.

 

[CSF77]

I mean if they are stupid enough to trade him as the article suggests now would be the worst time with all the FA pitchers coming up. The video suggested Shoenfield thought it would take more than Castro but I'm not entirely sure anymore especially if Castro keeps playing well in the 2nd half. I mean I could see it costing them someone like Villanueva as a second tier prospect with Castro but I don't think anyone is going to pay 2 premium pieces for him and there's not much out there for SS especially with Tulow getting traded. Should be interesting.

Maybe. If it was Harvey for Castro you would have to be stupid to even think of turning it down.

 

[CSF77]

Just watched it. When Wheeler gets back it opens up a opportunity to trade Harvey. Castro and ? For Harvey. They believe Baez and Russell are the future of the MI and Castro will be traded. Mets fans hate Harvey. So IDK who they would move with Castro to even get that deal done.

 

[beckdawg]

Maybe. If it was Harvey for Castro you would have to be stupid to even think of turning it down.

I think the cubs are going to be active in trade talks this offseason. They have a lot of talent they can't protect from the rule 5 draft. Most of those guys save for maybe Candelario and Pierce Johnson are probably available for trade talks. That would include Vogelbach just because there's not much you can do with him with Rizzo being what he is this year.

But I could easily see Castro plus someone like Villanueva and Vogelbach being enough to net a starter of note especially this offseason especially with the SS market and SP markets being what it is this coming offseason. Ian Desmond(30), Asdrubal Cabrera (30), Stephen Drew (33), Alcides Escobar (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $500K buyout, Alexei Ramirez (34) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout, and Jimmy Rollins (37) isn't really inspiring.

 

[CSF77]

A deal of Harvey for Castro. Seeing how Harvey's ERA is under 3 on a post injury year you would have to add a primmer prospect. Pitching they are set but they need a 7th inning guy.

I'm thinking Castro and either Edwards or Ramirez. Both have plenty of control.

Cespedes not resigning is another issue for them but I don't see an answer on the Cubs that replaces Cespedes. They should invest into him

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I think Harvey will be traded. The Mets don't like Boras and while they don't refuse to deal with him they often avoid it much like the White Sox (who will only deal with him when they acquire his guys in trade) and Kansas City. I also think they would be incredibly stupid to move him. I know they need plenty of positional help but the smart move would probably to move deGrom or Matz both of whom have fairly untested arms over the long haul and each would be very valuable in trade. Harvey had his TJ and has come out the other side. That's not nothing. The Cubs have been allegedly trying to move Castro to NY for over a year without a nibble. I'd say the chances of getting that deal done are negligible.

 

[brett05]

I think Harvey will be traded. The Mets don't like Boras and while they don't refuse to deal with him they often avoid it much like the White Sox (who will only deal with him when they acquire his guys in trade) and Kansas City. I also think they would be incredibly stupid to move him. I know they need plenty of positional help but the smart move would probably to move deGrom or Matz both of whom have fairly untested arms over the long haul and each would be very valuable in trade. Harvey had his TJ and has come out the other side. That's not nothing. The Cubs have been allegedly trying to move Castro to NY for over a year without a nibble. I'd say the chances of getting that deal done are negligible.

I think the big issue is that the Cubs value Castro at A, He plays at best as a D and teams are offering M thru D to land him thru his career. Until the Cubs lower their asking price I can't see Starlin getting moved.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I think the big issue is that the Cubs value Castro at A, He plays at best as a D and teams are offering M thru D to land him thru his career. Until the Cubs lower their asking price I can't see Starlin getting moved.

Yeah. I think he's their opening day guy at 2B, possibly in a platoon with LaStella, unless of course someone takes him and the contract as part of a larger deal of which the chances are remote. The thing is he is a better hitter than he's shown this year, you can get away with that bat at 2B with all the other firepower in that lineup, he could end up being just slightly below average at 2B with some work, he gives you flexibility int he infield in case of injury and his value could increase and it would still be possible to move him at a later time. Throwing him and money away doesn't seem to be the MO of this FO. It took them much longer expected to dump Edwin Jackson and this would be a larger dump on a player that could improve. I had previously thought they would get rid of him just to shed the drama but now I really don't see it.

 

[brett05]

I do not watch every game and read every article, but my observation as you couldn't ask for a player to handle this whole thing better than Starlin has.

 

[Raskolnikov]

If Castro gets the deal talking, figure it out. Castro, future picks, farm arms, and whatever it takes.

There is a reason his attitude has worn the fan base thin though. He is kind of a ******. Castro has shown ability to recover and get happy, die to self and put team above his own glory. I'm proud of Castro and it sucks to see him go but I hope he finishes this stretch run and the Cubs get what they deserve in return.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I do not watch every game and read every article, but my observation as you couldn't ask for a player to handle this whole thing better than Starlin has.

Agreed. There seems to be no questioning his character. For that reason if he's at 2B next year I wouldn't be unhappy about it. I'd like to see them cut the cord eventually but not if they have to eat money and throw him away.

 

[willycat]

Agreed. There seems to be no questioning his character. For that reason if he's at 2B next year I wouldn't be unhappy about it. I'd like to see them cut the cord eventually but not if they have to eat money and throw him away.

The time to cut the cord with Castro is this off season and if you get Harvey, then all the better. Sure he is still young but he has regressed both in the field and at bat and just doesn't show baseball smarts. Baez is the 2b of the future and Bryant doesn't hurt you at 3B, while Soler gives you some power from a corner OF spot.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The time to cut the cord with Castro is this off season and if you get Harvey, then all the better. Sure he is still young but he has regressed both in the field and at bat and just doesn't show baseball smarts. Baez is the 2b of the future and Bryant doesn't hurt you at 3B, while Soler gives you some power from a corner OF spot.

I really like Baez at 3B, he looks like a natural to me. I'm fine with him playing 2B too but your team defense improves exponentially by putting Bryant in right where he looks good and Baez at 3B.

 

[beckdawg]

I think Harvey will be traded. The Mets don't like Boras and while they don't refuse to deal with him they often avoid it much like the White Sox (who will only deal with him when they acquire his guys in trade) and Kansas City. I also think they would be incredibly stupid to move him. I know they need plenty of positional help but the smart move would probably to move deGrom or Matz both of whom have fairly untested arms over the long haul and each would be very valuable in trade. Harvey had his TJ and has come out the other side. That's not nothing. The Cubs have been allegedly trying to move Castro to NY for over a year without a nibble. I'd say the chances of getting that deal done are negligible.

My thing though is if you're the Mets and presumably you need a CF and a SS next year who are you trading Harvey for? There's been suggestions of them hoping to get someone like Xander Bogaerts but why would the red sox even bother giving him up when they can just buy a FA starter? CF is much the same because it's actually even harder to find a decent one(we've discussed this in relation to Fowler). To me it comes down to the fact that if the Mets are motivated to move Harvey who are they realistically going to get that has better upside than Castro at those two positions? I can't see them dealing Harvey for anything below AA and there's really not much in the way of high level prospects at those two positions that could be available. I could maybe see the argument for Corey Seager but the dodgers are another team that has shown no signs of being cheap with their money and they don't have much at SS/3B anyways.

Ultimately, I think it becomes a harder sell because Castro hasn't played well this year. If he'd played like last season I honestly think a pretty much straight up trade would be fair value given supply/demand. But again, why would the cubs be in a hurry to give up major player/prospects when they can spend money? Castro you can sort of understand moving because it's a logjam and if it takes a few lower level prospects I think that's fine.

 

[CSF77]

I really like Baez at 3B, he looks like a natural to me. I'm fine with him playing 2B too but your team defense improves exponentially by putting Bryant in right where he looks good and Baez at 3B.

Pretty much my thoughts. Soler has had real issues hitting breaking stuff..

Guys we are talking about:

Kris Bryant: wOBA: .365 BABIP: .366 So his BABIP has countered his 31.3 SO rate
Javy Baez: wOBA: .336 BABIP: .387 That is pretty unrealistic to continue. SO rate down to 24.4% so he has made a adjustment and the results are being seen.
Jorge Soler: wOBA: .307 BABIP: .368 Like Bryant he has been reasonably lucky. SO rate 29.4% Again can't hit breaking pitches.
Starlin Castro: wOBA: .272 BABIP: .290 Just a tick under league avg. SO rate is 15.8 which is pretty low. BB rate is 3.7 which is very low which is dragging his wOBA with it.

Chris Coghlan: wOBA: .343 BABIP: .284 Ok this is a guy that is hugely under rated. .284 is well below league avg. Inspite of this his wOBA is at a respectable .343. Even if his BABIP was league avg his production would surpass Soler (Who has been lucky and worse) Castro same thing. League avg but way below avg wOBA.

There is a legit reason why Coghlan keeps finding a spot to start on this team. He is producing more with worse luck going his way.

I think we are getting caught up in name value vs real value.

 

[CSF77]

My thing though is if you're the Mets and presumably you need a CF and a SS next year who are you trading Harvey for? There's been suggestions of them hoping to get someone like Xander Bogaerts but why would the red sox even bother giving him up when they can just buy a FA starter? CF is much the same because it's actually even harder to find a decent one(we've discussed this in relation to Fowler). To me it comes down to the fact that if the Mets are motivated to move Harvey who are they realistically going to get that has better upside than Castro at those two positions? I can't see them dealing Harvey for anything below AA and there's really not much in the way of high level prospects at those two positions that could be available. I could maybe see the argument for Corey Seager but the dodgers are another team that has shown no signs of being cheap with their money and they don't have much at SS/3B anyways.

Ultimately, I think it becomes a harder sell because Castro hasn't played well this year. If he'd played like last season I honestly think a pretty much straight up trade would be fair value given supply/demand. But again, why would the cubs be in a hurry to give up major player/prospects when they can spend money? Castro you can sort of understand moving because it's a logjam and if it takes a few lower level prospects I think that's fine.

They need a 7th inning guy. There are some who think he should take on the 7th inning role vs getting his starts cut short thus depleting the BP. That will be a real weakness going into a series for them. If a team can get their starter out early then they are exploitable.

Outside of that they need a SS. There is no other way around it. Castro holds name value if anything. Sure the Cubs would have to give up more. I would trade Castro and a arm like Grimm. I would say Ramirez but he has been injured and Edwards is un tested goods. Strop is another and might be an ideal choice for the Mets. Then you would have to add a primer prospect to it.

CF not sure. They have Conforto in LF now. And he is legit. Grandy in RF and Cespedes in CF. If I'm them I'm buying a multi on Fowler vs paydaying Cespedes.

 

[ursamajor]

Was watching a clip about 5 potential trade guys during the offseason with Dave Shoenfield(sp?) and Eric Karabel and they were talking about Mets fans hating Harvey. Karabel mentioned him for Castro as a possibility. Did I miss something? Granted I don't pay a ton of attention to the mets but I recall their fans wearing batman masks and calling him the dark knight. Also looking at his numbers the dude has pitched well. What am I missing here?

The wife is a Mets fan.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk