OT: Chicago Bullseye #80

[Diddy1122]

Great cast guys. Have to say thank you Fred for trying to get Mark off the Jennings Kool-Aid & backing up everything I told him as he was watching that monumentous performance against the premiere defense of John Carpenter's Warriors. He's absolutely in love with BJ now. He's the new Monta Ellis.

I do have to call you guys out a lil though about the Hawks. Now Mark was arguing that Atlanta did not have alot of talent & asked who the starting center was. You guys said ZaZa "Gabore" Pachulia. Wrong Wrong. C'mon guys, how could you forget one of the top centers in the East RIGHT NOW? Al Horford. He is a talented young big who gives them low post offense as well as defense. He's 8th in the league in rebounds. He's on the All-Star Ballot. Which reminds me, everyone please go & vote & write-in Joakim Noah because it's ridiculous that he is not on it.

 

[Fred]

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

 

[houheffna]

Concerning Jennings...Tyreke Evans will have a better career I believe. Because I have Martin on my fantasy team, I watched a lot of Evans and he will be great one day if he continues to improve at the rate he is now.

As far as Johnson, yeah that is true...the Hawks are finally maturing into what they were projected to be...but as far as the Bulls success relative to the current teams of free agents to be...I guess the Bulls can only get Bosh then...

 

[Diddy1122]

Fred wrote:

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

Yea I was telling people at the beginning of the year don't sleep on Atlanta. They are essentially the same team as last year plus Jamal Crawford, who is killing in that 6th man role. All this team needed was to get some brains to go with all the talent they have. Johnson is really leading this team on & off the court & it has shown in their improved teamwork. Before when I would watch the Hawks, I'd be sitting there thinking, "Boy this team could be really good if they just played together." Now it seems they've finally got it. And I don't think Johnson will leave. I honestly only see Bosh, Boozer, & Amare definitely changing addresses. The rest of the top tier FA crop I'm not so certain about.

 

[Kush77]

Great show guys.

Fred I love you doughnut example. I'm sick of doughnut and his poor play as of late.

I also agree with everything Fred said about Hinrich. I love how now Hinrich's role has changed now into defensive specialist. He was giving that contract to be a defender and to be one of the top scorers in the league. I assume the Bulls didn't give him 47 million to be Bruce Bowen. The Bulls expected scoring. And they got it in 06/07 when he put up 16.5ppg, but since then he's but garbage on offense.

But the media and fans that want to defend him have slowly changed the expectations, or lowered the bar, to "hey Kirk is basically a role player."

 

[clonetrooper264]

Kush77 wrote:

Great show guys.

Fred I love you doughnut example. I'm sick of doughnut and his poor play as of late.

I also agree with everything Fred said about Hinrich. I love how now Hinrich's role has changed now into defensive specialist. He was giving that contract to be a defender and to be one of the top scorers in the league. I assume the Bulls didn't give him 47 million to be Bruce Bowen. The Bulls expected scoring. And they got it in 06/07 when he put up 16.5ppg, but since then he's but garbage on offense.

But the media and fans that want to defend him have slowly changed the expectations, or lowered the bar, to "hey Kirk is basically a role player."

Top scorers in the league? I can understand top scorer on the team, but in the LEAGUE?!? Anyone who thinks Hinrich could be a leader in scoring is quite delusional. Now I want Hinrich getting 20 ppg as much as the next guy, maybe even more so, but let's not kid ourselves. Kirk has never been and probably never will be a top scorer. He can be an above average scorer (16.6 ppg isn't that bad) but if you watch Kirk Hinrich play you know his strengths are defense and passing. If Kirk Hinrich was to be in the top 30 in anything, it would be assists or assists per game. Going a little further into maybe top 35 or 40 he would be there in steals or steals per game. It is probably true the Bulls expected scoring from him, but clearly not to be the top scorer on the team, let alone in the league. That's not to say I think Kirk is only a role player, I still expect him to improve his offensive game over the course of the season and get back up there to 38% 3pt shooting and about 13 or so points per game.

 

[Dpauley23]

Fred wrote:

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

Fred I thought I was crazy how you gave the defense no credit. It seemed like your main argument for why the Bulls defense was so good was because they got offensive rebounds thus taking more time off the clock. There 5th in the league in defensive efficiency so they must be doing something right. Plus you contradict yourself with your BG comments. You said that the Bulls defense would be as good with Gordon, but then you say what great defense that Salmons is playing, which is true. Your Hinrich argument doesn't hold up either as you say that he should be playing up to his contract, but Bulls management overpaid for him because they wanted to thank him for all he did to get the Bulls out of the hell hole they were in and making them a good franchise again. He did the same for Deng and Gordon, but they rejected their offers

 

[Diddy1122]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Fred wrote:

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

Fred I thought I was crazy how you gave the defense no credit. It seemed like your main argument for why the Bulls defense was so good was because they got offensive rebounds thus taking more time off the clock. There 5th in the league in defensive efficiency so they must be doing something right. Plus you contradict yourself with your BG comments. You said that the Bulls defense would be as good with Gordon, but then you say what great defense that Salmons is playing, which is true. Your Hinrich argument doesn't hold up either as you say that he should be playing up to his contract, but Bulls management overpaid for him because they wanted to thank him for all he did to get the Bulls out of the hell hole they were in and making them a good franchise again. He did the same for Deng and Gordon, but they rejected their offers

Exactly what hell hole did Hinrich pull the Bulls out of? When was he ever the difference maker out on the floor? I'll never understand the absolute lack of respect that BG has received in all the years he was here. He's the reason the Bulls were pulled out of the "hell hole". He single-handedly won 12 games BY HIMSELF with his 4th quarter performances his rookie season.

I know people will say "It wasn't one player that did it, it was the core, being BG, Deng, Kirk, Noce, blah blah blah." That's partially true but that team would have been HORRIBLE without BG & I mean HOR-RI-BULL. And let's look at why the Bulls would choose to overpay Kirk, which you are agreeing he's overpaid. It's not because of his amazing ability to pull us out of the Neil Funk that this team was in for 6 post-MJ seasons it's because JR is, and always has been, only concerned with selling tickets & Kirk was the most popular Bull at the time, & I think we all know why.

 

[Dpauley23]

Diddy1122 wrote:

Dpauley23 wrote:

Fred wrote:

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

Fred I thought I was crazy how you gave the defense no credit. It seemed like your main argument for why the Bulls defense was so good was because they got offensive rebounds thus taking more time off the clock. There 5th in the league in defensive efficiency so they must be doing something right. Plus you contradict yourself with your BG comments. You said that the Bulls defense would be as good with Gordon, but then you say what great defense that Salmons is playing, which is true. Your Hinrich argument doesn't hold up either as you say that he should be playing up to his contract, but Bulls management overpaid for him because they wanted to thank him for all he did to get the Bulls out of the hell hole they were in and making them a good franchise again. He did the same for Deng and Gordon, but they rejected their offers

Exactly what hell hole did Hinrich pull the Bulls out of? When was he ever the difference maker out on the floor? I'll never understand the absolute lack of respect that BG has received in all the years he was here. He's the reason the Bulls were pulled out of the "hell hole". He single-handedly won 12 games BY HIMSELF with his 4th quarter performances his rookie season.

I know people will say "It wasn't one player that did it, it was the core, being BG, Deng, Kirk, Noce, blah blah blah." That's partially true but that team would have been HORRIBLE without BG & I mean HOR-RI-BULL. And let's look at why the Bulls would choose to overpay Kirk, which you are agreeing he's overpaid. It's not because of his amazing ability to pull us out of the Neil Funk that this team was in for 6 post-MJ seasons it's because JR is, and always has been, only concerned with selling tickets & Kirk was the most popular Bull at the time, & I think we all know why.

When the hell did I say he was single-handedly winning games for us. I was saying Deng, BG and Kirk was. I never even been BG hater and was one of the few people here who wanted to keep Gordon. I was relentlessly emailing Sam Smith and KC Johnson if they would keep Gordon. When they told me that Bulls chose Hinrich over Gordon I wasn't happy as I thought you could of easily dumped Hinrich to the Blazers. So don't put me in that rap with all the drones.I despise Neil Funk and I even once dissed Neil in front of his own family. I'm just saying what the organization did. They did it for all the guys who helped them out and if your saying that during those key years that Hinrich wasn't key part then your sadly mistaken. I never said he was better than Gordon nor do I think he was better than Gordon. I do think that Hinrich is loved more in than media and Gordon gets bad rap sheet, but I think diehards give Hinrich a bad rap sheet just because of all the love the media gives him, like Fred.

 

[clonetrooper264]

You know what, Hinrich just gets screwed over everywhere. He gets some love from the media and the diehards complain. He gets no love and his fans complain. He plays well people still say he sucks, he plays poorly and people insist he sucks.

 

[houheffna]

Nobody paid Hinrich to be the leading scorer, team or otherwise. They thought he would be an allstar caliber point guard. He is a better player than Bruce Bowen, but no he is not living up to the contract. We will just have to see how things end up.

 

[Diddy1122]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

Dpauley23 wrote:

Fred wrote:

You're absolutely right Diddy about Mark with Jennings. I like Jennings..he's obviously great. But people are jumping off the Rose bandwagon so fast, and it's making me sick. Let's see Jennings put 30 against Boston in the playoffs before we start crowning him as a better player than Rose.

I love Horford, but I've always thought of him as a Power Forward. I'm really starting to believe in Atlanta. I've always had a man crush on Bibby..one of the most underrated, clutch points guards in NBA history. Smith is playing awesome. Their improvement leads me to another point...why would Johnson leave Atlanta if they're going to be better than the Bulls?

Fred I thought I was crazy how you gave the defense no credit. It seemed like your main argument for why the Bulls defense was so good was because they got offensive rebounds thus taking more time off the clock. There 5th in the league in defensive efficiency so they must be doing something right. Plus you contradict yourself with your BG comments. You said that the Bulls defense would be as good with Gordon, but then you say what great defense that Salmons is playing, which is true. Your Hinrich argument doesn't hold up either as you say that he should be playing up to his contract, but Bulls management overpaid for him because they wanted to thank him for all he did to get the Bulls out of the hell hole they were in and making them a good franchise again. He did the same for Deng and Gordon, but they rejected their offers

Exactly what hell hole did Hinrich pull the Bulls out of? When was he ever the difference maker out on the floor? I'll never understand the absolute lack of respect that BG has received in all the years he was here. He's the reason the Bulls were pulled out of the "hell hole". He single-handedly won 12 games BY HIMSELF with his 4th quarter performances his rookie season.

I know people will say "It wasn't one player that did it, it was the core, being BG, Deng, Kirk, Noce, blah blah blah." That's partially true but that team would have been HORRIBLE without BG & I mean HOR-RI-BULL. And let's look at why the Bulls would choose to overpay Kirk, which you are agreeing he's overpaid. It's not because of his amazing ability to pull us out of the Neil Funk that this team was in for 6 post-MJ seasons it's because JR is, and always has been, only concerned with selling tickets & Kirk was the most popular Bull at the time, & I think we all know why.

When the hell did I say he was single-handedly winning games for us. I was saying Deng, BG and Kirk was. I never even been BG hater and was one of the few people here who wanted to keep Gordon. I was relentlessly emailing Sam Smith and KC Johnson if they would keep Gordon. When they told me that Bulls chose Hinrich over Gordon I wasn't happy as I thought you could of easily dumped Hinrich to the Blazers. So don't put me in that rap with all the drones.I despise Neil Funk and I even once dissed Neil in front of his own family. I'm just saying what the organization did. They did it for all the guys who helped them out and if your saying that during those key years that Hinrich wasn't key part then your sadly mistaken. I never said he was better than Gordon nor do I think he was better than Gordon. I do think that Hinrich is loved more in than media and Gordon gets bad rap sheet, but I think diehards give Hinrich a bad rap sheet just because of all the love the media gives him, like Fred.

Dpauley I'm not trying to say you're a drone, because I don't believe you are. I was just venting a lil, thanks to the McGraw article earlier in the week that churned up old memories of all the BG hate propaganda the media in this town has been spewing for years. Sorry you had to bear the brunt of it. But I think there's more to it than the organization wanted to thank Kirk for helping the team regain respectability. Kirk was paid because he's marketable & he brings in season ticket holders. Don't think for a second that that was not in JR's mind when they were drawing up a contract for him. The front office can say they signed him to provide scoring, defense, & leadership, well I haven't seen anything other than some good defense every few nights. About the only thing they got right with that contract was to make it front loaded so were not paying Kirk $12mill next season to come off the bench. But atleast the guy plays hard out there even if he's hardly having any positive effect on the outcome.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Kirk Hinrich has no effect on games? Ever? Really? Damn who have I been watching then? Surely he must be worthless.