OT: Rays Closers

[dabynsky]

What The Rays Know About Relievers - Beyond the Box Score

Really interesting article about how the Rays have turned has beens Kyle Farnsworth and Fernando Rodney into effective shut down closers.

 

[Rice Cube]

Rays are smart.

Hopefully the Theo + Jed braintrust is just as smart. Houston's moving in the right direction too in terms of their front office and it's a good thing they're moving out of division. The Cubs waited way too long to start playing Moneyball so the Cubs will have tons of catching up to do.

 

[daddies3angels]

Rays are smart.

Hopefully the Theo + Jed braintrust is just as smart. Houston's moving in the right direction too in terms of their front office and it's a good thing they're moving out of division. The Cubs waited way too long to start playing Moneyball so the Cubs will have tons of catching up to do.

Has moneyball ever won a WS?

OAK no
TBR no

 

[dabynsky]

What are we calling Moneyball? If we are talking specifically about the approach of the Oakland A's which is using stats almost to the exclusion of scouts then no. If we are talking about what the book was actually about which was finding market inefficiencies then that label could be applied to a lot of teams including Theo's Red Sox.

Basically Moneyball has become a buzzword that carries little meaning since people use it to mean many things. So if you want to use the definition very narrowly for basically what only the Oakland A's are doing then D3A you're correct. If we are stretching the dfeinition to include teams like the Rays then it applies to a lot more clubs than just those two.

 

[Rice Cube]

Moneyball is the concept that dab was describing. Theo Epstein used essentially the same concept to get the BoSox in position to win two World Series. Andrew Friedman, same thing. You're more likely to win the World Series if you can get to the playoffs, and you're more likely to get to the playoffs if you use sound principles to build your team, including a mix of scouting and statistical analysis. That's what we're hoping for here.

 

[ZAN]

Scouting and Moneyball got the key pieces to the Sox first WS.

Big Papi off the scrap-heap.
Bill Mueller was a former batting champion that no one wanted, Theo jumped on it.
Millar.
etc...

and you can't even argue that Moneyball didn't entirely win the Red Sox second title...

 

[dabynsky]

Bill Mueller won his only batting title with the Red Sox. He was a nice piece though.

 

[brett05]

Moneyball is the concept that dab was describing. Theo Epstein used essentially the same concept to get the BoSox in position to win two World Series. Andrew Friedman, same thing. You're more likely to win the World Series if you can get to the playoffs, and you're more likely to get to the playoffs if you use sound principles to build your team, including a mix of scouting and statistical analysis. That's what we're hoping for here.

I just thought this was funny. Lol

 

[ZDemp34]

You're more likely to win the World Series if you can get to the playoffs

Makes sense :lol:

 

[Rice Cube]

Makes sense :lol:

...and yet some people don't realize this

 

[daddies3angels]

FLA would like to say HI

2 playoffs 2 WS

 

[dabynsky]

FLA would like to say HI

2 playoffs 2 WS

Right they made the playoffs and have a couple of titles. Your counterpoint would only be effective if you could say something like Royals 0 playoffs and a World Series title in the past twenty years.

 

[daddies3angels]

Right they made the playoffs and have a couple of titles. Your counterpoint would only be effective if you could say something like Royals 0 playoffs and a World Series title in the past twenty years.

i took the quote as only way to win WS if you get there tons. Where FLA has proven that you can win WS if you get there once in while. I agree though it would be alot easier to win WS if you make playoffs yearly then just once in while. Even though ATL won 1 WS in all those yrs in playoffs while FLA already has 2 lol

 

[dabynsky]

The point is that you have to get to the postseason. The more you do the better your odds of winning a title. You can get lucky like the Marlins and win it without being there regularly. But the odds are kind of stacked against you.

 

[FirstTimer]

Can we please quit using the term Moneyball?

 

[Rice Cube]

Can we please quit using the term Moneyball?

I personally could, but you know the media will keep right on using it :lol:

 

[FirstTimer]

Scouting and Moneyball got the key pieces to the Sox first WS.

No it wasn't.

Big Papi off the scrap-heap.

Papi wasn't "scrap heap" player. He had trouble staying with the Twins big league club due to injuries but when he played he mashed. When Ortiz was signed big things were expected...and even then he had trouble breaking the Sox normal rotation in his first season. If he was able to stay healthy I know some were expecting 50 homeruns. His power was never in doubt and he wasn't some unknown quantity when 2004 rolled around.

Ortiz wasn't signed in 2003 because of some idea he had a high OBP. He was signed because he could hit the snot out of the ball.

Bill Mueller was a former batting champion that no one wanted, Theo jumped on it.

Bill Mueller was a solid journeyman player. He wasn't a former batting champ when Theo "jumped on it". Mueller won is batting title in Boston. Mueller was a classic "glue guy" that most MLB teams have.

Millar.

People forget Millar was a pretty good player in Florida before he arrived in Boston. Again, just another "glue" guy. Nothing really "moneyball" about it.

and you can't even argue that Moneyball didn't entirely win the Red Sox second title...

Do you even know what "moneyball" is? If so, describe it. Especially in relation to the Red Sox 2004 and 2007 teams.

 

[FirstTimer]

I personally could, but you know the media will keep right on using it :lol:

Yeah but the problem is now is the term gets thrown around by people like Zan who either don't even know what it is or don't qualify what they think it is in the context they are discussing.

 

[Rice Cube]

Yeah but the problem is now is the term gets thrown around by people like Zan who either don't even know what it is or don't qualify what they think it is in the context they are discussing.

It's often misused. I think of it as a baseball team using objective analysis to identify a market inefficiency and then exploit it. In Oakland it was OBP but elsewhere it could be defense, middle relief, etc.

 

[nwfisch]

It's often misused. I think of it as a baseball team using objective analysis to identify a market inefficiency and then exploit it. In Oakland it was OBP but elsewhere it could be defense, middle relief, etc.

But even in Oakland they used those principles on Hatteberg, Bradford, etc.