OT: Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson retire

czman

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lets take AI completely out of the conversation and explain to me why tracy is an average scorer?

because his career average is 19PPG? you have to take into account he didnt even start his first 3 years and then injuries killed his career and he floated around the league playing limited minutes...all of that kills his career average

but when he was in his prime he was allot better than an average scorer

I think I have stated this like 5 times, not sure how you missed it.

McGrady was an average scorer when compared to all time great players. Rami was comparing him to all time great players. That is the bar that we were discussing. Compared to all time great players McGrady is an average scorer.

If you disagree please post some information to the contrary. If you don't think that is fair, well that is the conversation that you jumped into.
 

Axl Rose

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you're basing your argument around career PPG which isnt fair to tmac for reasons ive already stated...if you were to take just his prime years he'd shoot up the list and be up there with the all time greats

get off basketball-reference.com
 

BNB

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What would t-Mac's PPG average throughout his career be minus his years with NY, ATL, DET and TOR?
 

Axl Rose

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probably around 25-26 a game...im just guesstimating here

and thats counting some years in houston when injuries started to affect him

without them you're looking at about 27-28 a game

we'll never how great he coulda been since he didnt have any longevity...but for those years he was great scorer
 

houheffna

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Lol...McGrady was a great scorer by damn near any standard in his prime. By no means was prime TMac an average scorer. If he posts those numbers in any...ANY era...he is considered a great scorer in that era.
 

clonetrooper264

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McGrady an average scorer...:andruw:
 

houheffna

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[h=3]Tracy McGrady: Per Game (2000-01 to 2007-08)[/h]
FromToGGSMPFGFGAFG%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%ORBDRBTRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS
2001200855755238.79.521.8.4361.74.9.3405.67.4.7531.45.06.45.51.40.82.61.926.3

[h=3]Allen Iverson: Per Game (1998-99 to 2007-08)[/h]
FromToGGSMPFGFGAFG%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%ORBDRBTRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS
1999200867367042.210.023.5.4231.23.8.3107.89.8.7910.73.03.86.22.30.23.71.828.9

This is both players during their prime years when considering health and productivity. I really don't think the difference is that dramatic...
 

houheffna

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Here are Kobe's numbers over the same span of years as McGrady's...no decline, no key injuries. All time great player, great scorer...

[h=3]Kobe Bryant: Per Game (1999-00 to 2006-07)[/h]
FromToGGSMPFGFGAFG%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%ORBDRBTRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS
2000200758457939.99.821.7.4551.34.0.3387.38.6.8431.34.65.95.31.70.63.22.928.3

2ppg better. Bryant is considered amongst the best of the best in NBA history when it comes to scoring the basketball. He will always be remembered as a prolific scorer...I doubt if people see McGrady as an average scorer compared to him. The numbers don't show that.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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I never knocked McGrady for things that Iverson did his entire career.

You called out McGrady for being inefficient when Iverson and he were nearly just as efficient at shooting the ball for their careers. McGrady was also more efficient with assists:turnovers. You called McGrady selfish when Iverson was notoriously selfish. Both players dominated the ball in terms of shot attempts and time with the ball in their hands.

When Iverson left teams they got worse. When McGrady left teams they got better.

The Sixers nearly went into re-building mode after the Iverson for Andre Miller trade. The Nuggets arguably DID get better after A.I. left. They made the WCF after the Iverson for Billups trade. Pistons were in re-building mode after A.I. left.

The Magic got back Francis and Mobley after McGrady left. They got Dwight soon after that. The Rockets had the best season out of Yao and also had Artest and Battier. They were DEEP. If McGrady had been healthy, they likely would have won the West in 2009.

Iverson palyed off the ball for half his career. McGrady never played off the ball.

Again, that is not the case. McGrady played off the ball at times.

Iverson is 6th all time in scoring and McGrady is outside the top 60.

Already been over this. Minutes matter. Look at their prime years.

Iverson is the best scorer all time under 6'3". McGrady is not even in the top 30 scorers who are 6'4"-6'8".

McGrady is damn well one of the best 30 scorers in NBA history and so is Iverson. Iverson was 5'11'' and McGrady was 6'8''. I am pretty sure I know who would win that game of 1-on-1. Height matters. If Nate Robinson was 6'6'', he would be a current superstar and future hall of famer. Iverson's height was a key disadvantage.

Iverson went further into the playoffs.

The Eastern Conference from 2001-2003 was PITIFUL. The Western Conference was STACKED from 1999 all the way until now arguably.

McGrady is an average scorer amongst the best players all time. If you think he is an all time great you can believe that.

McGrady was arguably a better scorer than LeBron is now in his prime. He was a better scorer than Duncan and KG easily. The only two scorers that even rivaled him last decade were Iverson and Kobe. That is it.

The facts and data support what I have.

You haven't given any more fact than anyone else. Most of what you type are false assertions with no facts in sight like this:

Most of what you are implying I am wrong on I have not even typed. I never stated that Iverson was an efficient scorer. All I have stated is that Iverson did play without the ball and McGrady never did. If you disagree with that then you just don't know what you are talking about. Iverson under Brown was not the PG on offense. McGrady never learned how to play without the ball and it is the primary reason his teams lost in the playoffs.

Things are what they are, even if you cannot accept the facts.

What facts? Looks more like b.s. than facts.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Here are Kobe's numbers over the same span of years as McGrady's...no decline, no key injuries. All time great player, great scorer...

[h=3]Kobe Bryant: Per Game (1999-00 to 2006-07)[/h]
FromToGGSMPFGFGAFG%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%ORBDRBTRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS
2000200758457939.99.821.7.4551.34.0.3387.38.6.8431.34.65.95.31.70.63.22.928.3

2ppg better. Bryant is considered amongst the best of the best in NBA history when it comes to scoring the basketball. He will always be remembered as a prolific scorer...I doubt if people see McGrady as an average scorer compared to him. The numbers don't show that.

A player with slightly lower efficiency and productivity than Kobe Bryant was an 'average scorer amongst the great scorers of all-time.' What a crock.

Iverson's prime numbers were 29-4-6-2-0 in more minutes at the same overall efficiency with 1 more turnover /game.

McGrady's numbers were 27-6-6-1-1

No one in their right mind can say Iverson was clearly better than McGrady.
 

Alpha Male

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Allen Iverson is a first ballot hall of famer. No doubt. Tmac sucks though.
 

Axl Rose

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Allen Iverson is a first ballot hall of famer. No doubt. Tmac sucks though.

sup czman

couldn't back your own argument anymore so you had to make a new account? tsk tsk
 

scottiepippen1994

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Tmac is cool. :smug:
Allen Iverson is awsome. :beerbang:


Carry on...................................
 

Daa Bearrs

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Dear God of Jesus/Satan/Lunatic, what the ever living hell is this boards obsession with turnover prone, inefficient chuckers?

Nate Robinson sucks
Ben Gordon sucks
J.R. Smith sucks
Monty "have it all" Ellis fucking sucks

They all fucking suck balls. The HELL is wrong with you people?
 

clonetrooper264

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Dear God of Jesus/Satan/Lunatic, what the ever living hell is this boards obsession with turnover prone, inefficient chuckers?

Nate Robinson sucks
Ben Gordon sucks
J.R. Smith sucks
Monty "have it all" Ellis fucking sucks

They all fucking suck balls. The HELL is wrong with you people?
I'm sorry but this isn't relevant, is it?
 

Axl Rose

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Dear God of Jesus/Satan/Lunatic, what the ever living hell is this boards obsession with turnover prone, inefficient chuckers?

Nate Robinson sucks
Ben Gordon sucks
J.R. Smith sucks
Monty "have it all" Ellis fucking sucks

They all fucking suck balls. The HELL is wrong with you people?

i dont believe what you said has any relevance to the topic at hand

Ben doesnt suck :angryfinger:
 

Daa Bearrs

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I admit that post had no relevance. I thought I was posting in the JR Smith thread.:smoke:
 

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