Polian on the cost of JG today

[Enasic]

Kind of pointless to franchise tag someone while having no existing intention to sign the guy to a long-term deal...especially during a "total rebuild".

So you think Pace tagged Alshon while having no intention to sign him long term? Interesting. If that were the case, he probably would have traded Alshon before the deadline....even if he got peanuts. I'm sure he wants Alshon back....but he has a number in mind and doesn't want to go over it. I highly, highly doubt Pace tagged him despite not wanting him on the team past the season. Seems like wild speculation.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I would bet Alshon ends up with the team that pays him the most. All this talk about "not wanting to be here" might be true but money changes things.

 

[The Hawk]

I'm not so sure about that. I think Pace is a very likeable and relatable guy. He's young, he's a straight shooter, and he could probably sell his vision pretty easily...especially if he's the highest bidder. Let's face it, that's the bottom line in the NFL and sports. Pace could sell what he's building and point to the roster he had when he took over filled with old has beens and nobodies. There's definitely more talent on the roster now....it hasn't showed up in the win column yet...but mostly that's due to the QB situation and a terrible secondary. Not to mention injuries. Pace should be able to completely revamp the secondary this season...obviously the QB situation is the biggest to figure out. But if he comes in with legit offers and lays out his plan, I don't think he'll have a problem selling guys to come here. Money goes a long way in and of itself.

How do you think the workers comp state issue will play in any free agent discussions?

 

[Enasic]

I'm not really understanding your interpretation of my posting. It doesn't make much sense.

I think Pace tagged Alshon to simply buy some time....the fact that he had yet to lock down Alshon to a long-term deal was the reason for the franchise tag. Not sure how Pace could have traded Alshon as he we was not under contract.

Alshon's 1-year franchise deal was essentially a 'prove it' deal, which was kind of dumb, and the result was the worst possible for Pace. Alshon didn't really prove anything, but neither did any of the other Bear WRs. Kevin White was another huge disaster. Wilson was hurt once again. The rest of the WR corps that Pace assembled was absolute garbage with the exception of Cam Meredith. All last year proved was that Jeffery might not be a top WR, but the Bears have very few alternatives in the passing game.

Are you implying every player who gets tagged is on a "prove it deal?" This is the NFL...sometimes sides can't reach an agreement and the tag is a tool to buy some time and keep the player. If Pace didn't want Alshon here long term, he never would have tagged him. And by trading him, I meant mid-season on the tag. If what you're saying is true, that Pace tagged him without the intention of signing him long term....wouldn't he trade Alshon during the season? Even if he only got a late rounder?

 

[remydat]

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

If the Pats franchise tag their backup QB, they'll be signing JG to a 1yr/$25M deal. Even if they think that eating up $25M in cap space is no big deal, how many NFL teams would be able to absorb that 1 year salary cap hit? Even if teams wanted to trade 2 #1s for JG, they wouldn't be able to fit him under the cap. And for the few teams that could fit JG under the cap, you'd still have to negotiate a new deal with him since his contract would be expiring at the end of the year.

So if the Patriots kill their own trade market for JG by franchising him, then they are on the hook to pay him $25M for one season. And then what happens when the seasons concludes? A 2nd year of franchising a BACKUP QB, with the $120% escalator...do you think ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would trade for JG when he has a 1 year deal for $30M?

By franchising JG, the Patriots have created a situation where they can neither hold on to him nor trade him. Simply incredible.

Are you stupid? I said he is not backed into a corner this year because he can franchise and trade him next year. All the things you are describing would be the reason why he would be backed into a corner next year because he would have to move him. The point was about whether he was backed into a corner this year or not. He is not.

And they wouldn't kill his trade value because someone could still trade for him and then sign him to a long term deal as long as it's before the deadline for such a deal to get done. It may depress his value somewhat but there are always desperate teams out there.

But I would agree it would make things more difficult hence why he would be backed into a corner next year if he did it but he certainly is not backed into a corner this year which was the point.

 

[satchice]

And they wouldn't kill his trade value because someone could still trade for him and then sign him to a long term deal as long as it's before the deadline for such a deal to get done. It may depress his value somewhat but there are always desperate teams out there.

This is a horrible plan.

What do you think his trade value would be next year assuming he doesn't take any snaps in 2017 season, and is another year older?
The majority of Bears fans are against giving up a 2nd round pick for him, and he is the local QB hero. I bet no where else in the country is he more popular then he is in Chicago.

Christ, by the time he goes though a whole offseason with his new team he will be 27 years old in your scenario.
If BB can not work out a trade this season then he will just let him hit FA and collect the 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

[remydat]

This is a horrible plan.

What do you think his trade value would be next year assuming he doesn't take any snaps in 2017 season, and is another year older?
The majority of Bears fans are against giving up a 2nd round pick for him, and he is the local QB hero. I bet no where else in the country is he more popular then he is in Chicago.

Christ, by the time he goes though a whole offseason with his new team he will be 27 years old in your scenario.
If BB can not work out a trade this season then he will just let him hit FA and collect the 3rd round compensatory pick.

The statement made once again is that BB is backed into a corner this year. My answer to that question is no, he is not backed into a corner this year because he can still franchise and trade him next year.

So first question, do you think BB is backed into a corner this year, yes or no?

My second statement is that I believe BB cares more about winning SBs than he does maximizing trade value. If BB thinks that JG is a pro bowl caliber QB then it is in his best interests to hold onto him as long as reasonably possible because a draft pick isn't worth more to him than the Super Bowl.

2nd question, do you think BB values maximizing draft picks more than he does winning Super Bowls, yes or no?

3rd question, if BB values winning Super Bowls more then what is more important to him doing so. Getting a top draft pick this year or preventing Pro Bowl JG from being able to compete against him as long as reasonably possible as well as guarding against a Brady injury?

I suspect we can agree on the first point ie BB is not backed into a corner this year but probably disagree on the 2nd or 3rd question.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

The statement made once again is that BB is backed into a corner this year. My answer to that question is no, he is not backed into a corner this year because he can still franchise and trade him next year.

So first question, do you think BB is backed into a corner this year, yes or no?

My second statement is that I believe BB cares more about winning SBs than he does maximizing trade value. If BB thinks that JG is a pro bowl caliber QB then it is in his best interests to hold onto him as long as reasonably possible because a draft pick isn't worth more to him than the Super Bowl.

2nd question, do you think BB values maximizing draft picks more than he does winning Super Bowls, yes or no?

3rd question, if BB values winning Super Bowls more then what is more important to him doing so. Getting a top draft pick this year or preventing Pro Bowl JG from being able to compete against him as long as reasonably possible as well as guarding against a Brady injury?

I suspect we can agree on the first point ie BB is not backed into a corner this year but probably disagree on the 2nd or 3rd question.

So he holds onto him one more year at 25 million just in case Brady decides to retire after next year, or gets hurt, or declines?

 

[WindyCity]

My guess is that BB can turn the 33rd pick into a starting player pretty easy easily making that pick more valuable to him in 2017 than Garoppolo.

I do not think he is backed into a corner at all. BB, like he did with Jones and a Collins will get good value and then turn those picks into players for 2017 run.

 

[remydat]

So he holds onto him one more year at 25 million just in case Brady decides to retire after next year, or gets hurt, or declines?

No, this year he would still only cost his rookie contract. Next year is where they would most likely have to franchise and trade him if they decided to keep him this year.

My guess is that BB can turn the 33rd pick into a starting player pretty easy easily making that pick more valuable to him in 2017 than Garoppolo.

I do not think he is backed into a corner at all. BB, like he did with Jones and a Collins will get good value and then turn those picks into players for 2017 run.

Gronk is likely more important to the Pats than anyone he gets at 33. The Pats still one the SB without him. The fact is whoever he drafts at 33 isn't going to be the difference between a SB and not a SB IMO because BB can most likely plug a player in at just about any position on the field and still be successful. He doesn't need that 33rd pick. It's a luxury for him.

However, if Brady goes done to injury and JG is allegedly Pro Bowl caliber, I think he is more important to the team's success than than the 33rd pick because Brady is the most important cog in the NE machine and having a good to great replacement in the event of injury seems more important to me than getting a player at 33.

 

[satchice]

The statement made once again is that BB is backed into a corner this year. My answer to that question is no, he is not backed into a corner this year because he can still franchise and trade him next year.

So first question, do you think BB is backed into a corner this year, yes or no?
NO, he has several options still
My second statement is that I believe BB cares more about winning SBs than he does maximizing trade value. If BB thinks that JG is a pro bowl caliber QB then it is in his best interests to hold onto him as long as reasonably possible because a draft pick isn't worth more to him than the Super Bowl.

2nd question, do you think BB values maximizing draft picks more than he does winning Super Bowls, yes or no?

I agree BB goal is to win the SB every year above all else. I think BB is fine with Jacoby Brissett as the backup QB in his system, and see JG best use for the Patriots as a trading chip.

3rd question, if BB values winning Super Bowls more then what is more important to him doing so. Getting a top draft pick this year or preventing Pro Bowl JG from being able to compete against him as long as reasonably possible as well as guarding against a Brady injury?

I think BB accepts that JG will never be his starting QB, but he could trade him for a Pick that turns into a starting DB that they are losing this offseason. I would also be surprised if the Pats did not pick another QB in rounds 3-5 maybe Webb or Peterman??

I suspect we can agree on the first point ie BB is not backed into a corner this year but probably disagree on the 2nd or 3rd question.

At this point I think BB would values a guy like Davis Webb higher then JG. Webb can sit behind Brady for 2-3 years, and when Brady is ready to retire Webb(or who ever) is only 25 years old and has been in the Pats system for 3 years

 

[WindyCity]

The 33rd pick could be a really good player for the Patriots for 4 years of his rookie deal.

Jimmy G gives them 1 more year of insurance.


My guess is he will value a starting CB over a backup QB, even more so with how they feel about Brissett.

 

[dbldrew]

The statement made once again is that BB is backed into a corner this year. My answer to that question is no, he is not backed into a corner this year because he can still franchise and trade him next year.

So first question, do you think BB is backed into a corner this year, yes or no?

My second statement is that I believe BB cares more about winning SBs than he does maximizing trade value. If BB thinks that JG is a pro bowl caliber QB then it is in his best interests to hold onto him as long as reasonably possible because a draft pick isn't worth more to him than the Super Bowl.

2nd question, do you think BB values maximizing draft picks more than he does winning Super Bowls, yes or no?

3rd question, if BB values winning Super Bowls more then what is more important to him doing so. Getting a top draft pick this year or preventing Pro Bowl JG from being able to compete against him as long as reasonably possible as well as guarding against a Brady injury?

I suspect we can agree on the first point ie BB is not backed into a corner this year but probably disagree on the 2nd or 3rd question.

He is backed into a corner this year for getting maximum return from JG. If they want high draft picks then this is the last chance to do so.. which is why they say he is backed into a corner.

 

[Adipost]

The 33rd pick could be a really good player for the Patriots for 4 years of his rookie deal.

Jimmy G gives them 1 more year of insurance.


My guess is he will value a starting CB over a backup QB, even more so with how they feel about Brissett.

The Patriots desperately need a pass rusher. They could get an impact EDGE rusher at #33.

 

[remydat]

At this point I think BB would values a guy like Davis Webb higher then JG. Webb can sit behind Brady for 2-3 years, and when Brady is ready to retire Webb(or who ever) is only 25 years old and has been in the Pats system for 3 years

So it seems our disagreement is centered around point 2. Personally I think the only way BB is comfortable with Brissett is if he doesn't view JG as a significant upgrade over him. And if that is the case not sure why we are trading for JG.

As for point 3, if Brady goes down for a significant period of time next year then do you think JG or Brissett gives the Pats, the best chance of making the playoffs?

 

[didshereallysaythat]

So it seems our disagreement is centered around point 2. Personally I think the only way BB is comfortable with Brissett is if he doesn't view JG as a significant upgrade over him. And if that is the case not sure why we are trading for JG.

As for point 3, if Brady goes down for a significant period of time next year then do you think JG or Brissett gives the Pats, the best chance of making the playoffs?

Because BB is not God himself and believe it or not, there is a chance that he is WRONG about Jimmy?

 

[remydat]

He is backed into a corner this year for getting maximum return from JG. If they want high draft picks then this is the last chance to do so.. which is why they say he is backed into a corner.

This was not your original argument. And no this isn't their last chance to do it. Their last chance to do it is next year. While I would agree that his value is more likely to decline, I wouldn't say they can't get a high pick as it depends on who has a need at QB. A team that is drafting say 27 may decide to give up that pick because it's late first round and they are a contender and just need a QB that they aren't likely to get in the draft at 27.

We don't know because we don't know the teams that will have QB needs next year yet.

Because BB is not God himself and believe it or not, there is a chance that he is WRONG about Jimmy?

Well of course he can be wrong. That's just not something I care all that much about testing out given his track record of success exceeds anyone involved with the Bears.

 

[WindyCity]

Peter King, said that McCarron could be an ideal fallback option for the Bears if they miss on their top QB choices in the draft.

 

[Applefan]

Who's to say McCarron won't have been traded by draft time.

 

[Matt Suhey]

Peter King, said that McCarron could be an ideal fallback option for the Bears if they miss on their top QB choices in the draft.

Weeks ago I had much more faith in Polian's opinions on QB's now I would not base a Bears QB acquisition on a Polian opinion. For this reason I am backing off Jimmy G as my first choice for the Bears QB option. I also recall a poster writing that McCarron has a bad personality and given Jay's personality issues I cant see the Bears taking a chance with someone whose personality is sketchy for a QB who needs to be the team leader.