record comparison last 4 seasons

[chibears55]

with 60 games left in the season i wanted to see where they were at this point last season and found them to be 4 games better, out of curiosity i looked to see how they compared to the 2010 and 2011 season the final 2 years of a mostly veteran team that came off of back to back playoff appearances.

2010 46 - 56 finished 75 - 87

2011 42 - 60 finished 71 - 91

2012 43 - 59 finished 61 - 101

2013 47 - 55 finished ????


as we can see this team and last year team that were somewhat built to lose games at the beginning of the season, are pretty much right there with the 2 teams ( 2010,11 ) that were kept together to try and compete for another playoff run.

the difference of the 10 games last season in the final 60 would be that they traded away some of their starting pitching and had nothing really ready to compete and help win games. this year, barring any more trades to the starters, i dont see that being a problem.

my point is , some can complain about how poorly of a job epstein and hoyer is doing because their paying more attention to the minor league level then the major team but the team they have assembled on the major side has been up to par to what they had in 2010 and 2011 when it was loaded with all the veteran players. im not saying their a better team record wise, but their getting somewhat the same results and epstein and hoyer have been able to strengthen the minor league level with some very good talent in the process.

in 2010 and 2011 they did not add much to the system but they did trade away some of their better prospects in hope to compete in those years but it didnt work. pretty much like taking 1 step forward but falling 4 steps back in a way..


we dont know how this team will finish, my guess will be in the 70-75 wins range if they keep the starters in tact, but i think we can definitely say that the minor league system is in a better place now then it was in 2010 and the major league team is on an upside now then it was after the 2010 season.

 

[SilenceS]

Until one of the prospects comes up and performs on the major league level, you cant say the major league team is in better shape. We have been bad for quite a few years.. You cant say Theo and them are helping the major league team until the major league does in fact improve greatly. It could easily happen, but it is still a complete what if.

 

[mountsalami]

Thanks for the statistics on the last three years of wins and losses.

That was very helpful.

Not sure what your point is because the Cubs are clearly sellers and have no intentions of competing in the short term.

But lets sprinkle more powdered sugar on the turd and eat it anyway.

We should feel lucky to get someone like Bryant after tanking the season to get the pick.

 

[chibears55]

Until one of the prospects comes up and performs on the major league level, you cant say the major league team is in better shape.

i said the minor league is in better shape, just said the major league team is on an upside now...

but i agree we have to wait and see what the prospects do but some of the ones that are on the team now put the team in a better position going forward then what they had in 2010/11.

in 2010/11 we had aging players with their best years behind them, now we have quite a few players on roster who have a lot of upside which makes the current team in better shape now then it was then. that dont even include what they have in the system now that we have to look forward to, which we didnt have much before either.

You cant say Theo and them are helping the major league team until the major league does in fact improve greatly.

it doesnt have to be greatly, just have to be better then where they were in 2010/11.. record wise their right there and the team core is younger with a lot of upside to be much better.

It could easily happen, but it is still a complete what if.

of course the future is unknown, but my point is what they have core wise so far puts them in a better position now going forward then they were in 2010/11.

 

[KBisBack!]

just said the major league team is on an upside now...

An 'upside' that just traded away two of the most productive players on the team in Soriano and Garza.

Say what you will about those players but the reality of situation is.....

Soriano had a higher BA than either Castro or Rizzo.

Until the last week, Soriano had a higher OBP than Castro

Soriano had a significantly higher SLG average than Castro or Rizzo

Soriano's OPS was equal to Rizzo and significantly higher than Castro.

That is gone now.

While Matt Garza made roughly half the starts of some of the other starters, he was clearly the best starter on the team.

That is gone now.

So the record the team has right now has nothing to do with the team moving forward.

now we have quite a few players on roster who have a lot of upside which makes the current team in better shape now then it was then. that dont even include what they have in the system now that we have to look forward to, which we didnt have much before either.

Really???

There is not one player on the roster currently that has supplied the quality of production that Garza, Soriano or Zambrano and Ramirez who were on the roster that JedStein inherited. Castro was inherited. Rizzo has potential, but has produced at a below average level.

The minor leagues are marginally improved (I don't care about Baseball America's or Keith Law's rankings) the major league roster is significantly downgraded.

To say that the team is improved is purely subjective and 100% opinion and 0% fact.

but my point is what they have core wise so far puts them in a better position now going forward then they were in 2010/11.

Please elaborate on this point and break down the roster and show position by position how the team RIGHT NOW, is better than the team in 2010/2011.

 

[chibears55]

An 'upside' that just traded away two of the most productive players on the team in Soriano and Garza.

Say what you will about those players but the reality of situation is.....

the reality of the situation is that soriano had a productive 3 weeks out of the whole year and is 1 season away from probably retiring (38)..

so, comparing where he is at and headed now to castro and rizzo who are basically at the beginning of their careers and obviously have more upside going forward then soriano is just plain DUMB...

you and a few others are the only ones who might think Garza is worth 15-18 mil per., only a desperate team or the dodgers/Angels may go that high for him.

While Matt Garza made roughly half the starts of some of the other starters, he was clearly the best starter on the team.

That is gone now.
So the record the team has right now has nothing to do with the team moving forward.

never said he wasnt their best starter, but to say his 6 wins out of the 47 is the reason their record is what it is and not the rest of the staff ( samardzija, wood, jackson ) who will still be with the team moving forward is well just DUMB

There is not one player on the roster currently that has supplied the quality of production that Garza, Soriano or Zambrano and Ramirez who were on the roster that JedStein inherited. Castro was inherited. Rizzo has potential, but has produced at a below average level.

The minor leagues are marginally improved (I don't care about Baseball America's or Keith Law's rankings) the major league roster is significantly downgraded.

To say that the team is improved is purely subjective and 100% opinion and 0% fact.

maybe you have bad reading comprehension or its still to early for you..
i never said anything about production or compared stats of the two teams..
I said they have players with upside, which makes this team in better shape now then it was then..

Please elaborate on this point and break down the roster and show position by position how the team RIGHT NOW, is better than the team in 2010/2011.

again your reading comprehension sucks, cause i never said that personal stats wise this team was better, i said this team is in better position now going forward then that team was...

here the main players from then..
C. soto 1B pena 2b barney SS castro 3B ramirez Lf soriano CF byrd RF Fukudome
Sp Dempster Sp Garza Sp Zambrano
Rel. samardzija Rel marshall Cl. marmol

now you tell me from those players, besides Castro, Barney, samardzija, and Garza
who from those players were you counting on to be productive 3-5 yrs from 2011, you know going forward ?


now they have castillo, rizzo, castro, schierholtz, Lake, Barney, sweeney, samardzija, wood, Jackson, Strop, rusin, Russell, and Parker.. all under 30 and barring being traded could be part of the team going forward

The minor leagues are marginally improved (I don't care about Baseball America's or Keith Law's rankings)

LMAO.. yea the opinions of people who been doing it for years and make a living at it should take a back seat to you.

sorry, but it aint just them giving the cubs system a big plus in their upgrade/improvement over where it was a couple of seasons ago.. a lot of baseball people that are actually involved with the game or has been in some capacity say the same thing. your just to damn ignorant to just say it is a lot better now, not just a slight improvement

 

[KBisBack!]

the reality of the situation is that soriano had a productive 3 weeks out of the whole year and is 1 season away from probably retiring (38)..

so, comparing where he is at and headed now to castro and rizzo who are basically at the beginning of their careers and obviously have more upside going forward then soriano is just plain DUMB...

That isn't what was said at all.

What was said is that the teams record this year that you want to point as a sign of improvement is more due to the production of Soriano than the production of Rizzo and Castro up to this point.

Thank you.

you and a few others are the only ones who might think Garza is worth 15-18 mil per., only a desperate team or the dodgers/Angels may go that high for him.

We will see come this offseason.

With Edwin Jackson making $14M per season, Garza would appear to be the much better value at $15-18M

never said he wasnt their best starter, but to say his 6 wins out of the 47 is the reason their record is what it is and not the rest of the staff ( samardzija, wood, jackson ) who will still be with the team moving forward is well just DUMB

And yet Garza's six wins are equal to the amount of Shark, Wood and Jackson.

The Cubs were 9-3 in the 12 games Garza started.

The Cubs are 10-11 in the games Shark starts.

The Cubs are 7-13 in the games Wood starts.

The Cubs are 8-12 in the games Jackson starts.

Please explain to me how the Cubs .750 winning percentage in the games Garza starts is less productive than the combined .409 winning percentage in the other starts?

maybe you have bad reading comprehension or its still to early for you..
i never said anything about production or compared stats of the two teams..
I said they have players with upside, which makes this team in better shape now then it was then..

Actually you have said cause they have won more games they are in better shape now then it was.





again your reading comprehension sucks, cause i never said that personal stats wise this team was better, i said this team is in better position now going forward then that team was...

here the main players from then..
C. soto 1B pena 2b barney SS castro 3B ramirez Lf soriano CF byrd RF Fukudome
Sp Dempster Sp Garza Sp Zambrano
Rel. samardzija Rel marshall Cl. marmol

now you tell me from those players, besides Castro, Barney, samardzija, and Garza
who from those players were you counting on to be productive 3-5 yrs from 2011, you know going forward ?


now they have castillo, rizzo, castro, schierholtz, Lake, Barney, sweeney, samardzija, wood, Jackson, Strop, rusin, Russell, and Parker.. all under 30 and barring being traded could be part of the team going forward

Castro clearly has the best chance of being a productive player in 3-5 years.

Rizzo's reality is that he does has potential but his production in his time with the Cubs has been subpar. At some point production has to equal potential. Reality is that you are what the back of your baseball card says you are.

Scheirholtz may not be with the team come August, much less 3-5 years from now.

Barney is terrible, period. If he is still starting 3-5 years from now, this team is in trouble.

Samardzija will be a free agent in 2 seasons. No guarantees he will be a productive player for the Cubs 3-5 years from now.

Travis Woods needs to continue pitching like this for the next 3-5 years.

Jackson has been terrible.

The rest of that list is middle relievers, the easiest pieces to find in building a team.

So Junior Lake's 9 games are a guarantee that he will be a productive major league player 3-5 years from now? Glad we are being realistic.

Ryan Sweeney?? Really?

LMAO.. yea the opinions of people who been doing it for years and make a living at it should take a back seat to you.

Never said they should take a back seat to me. I just don't pay a lot of attention to the rankings unless someone else brings them up.

sorry, but it aint just them giving the cubs system a big plus in their upgrade/improvement over where it was a couple of seasons ago.. a lot of baseball people that are actually involved with the game or has been in some capacity say the same thing. your just to damn ignorant to just say it is a lot better now, not just a slight improvement

Sorry, but as was pointed out by Parade Rain, Baseball America has the Cubs farm system ranked at the start of the season in almost the same exact place as it was in 2010-2011.

 

[mountsalami]

Sorry, but as was pointed out by Parade Rain, Baseball America has the Cubs farm system ranked at the start of the season in almost the same exact place as it was in 2010-2011.

Not sure how the rankings of the farm system make the ML team on the field better. Lets go ahead and blow our loads all over hell at the thought that something fantastic is taking shape. Still waiting for the "braintrust" to provide the math formula to these rankings that are held so dearly to their chests.

I guess since someone is hired to be an expert. The rankings are an accurate measuring stick and this team is headed in the right direction. Nice to know that some of the team's best assets are traded away for more garbage to provide sustained wins in the future. Can't wait to see Pierced Johnson hurl the game seven winner in 2026.

 

[chibears55]

What was said is that the teams record this year that you want to point as a sign of improvement is more due to the production of Soriano than the production of Rizzo and Castro up to this point.

LMAO.. ok ,, soriano had a bit of a hot streak driving in runs the last 3 weeks, but please spare me and others that he was more productive then rizzo and castro for the year..

soriano had 51 RBI and 47 RS
Rizzo has 58 RBI and 51 RS
Castro has 30 RBI and 45 RS

also, just as soriano got hot the last 3 weeks driving in runs castro got hot getting on base during the same 3 weeks

Please explain to me how the Cubs .750 winning percentage in the games Garza starts is less productive than the combined .409 winning percentage in the other starts

?


i never said he was less productive, i even said he was their best starter.. but you claimed he was the sole/main reason why the team has won 48 games to date
im just telling you he was a part of it but not the main reason.. 6 wins out of the 48 means there are other starters winning their share of games too.

Actually you have said cause they have won more games they are in better shape now then it was.

please copy and paste where i wrote anything about how the record is the reason their in better shape now

 

[KBisBack!]

i never said he was less productive, i even said he was their best starter.. but you claimed he was the sole/main reason why the team has won 48 games to date
im just telling you he was a part of it but not the main reason.. 6 wins out of the 48 means there are other starters winning their share of games too.

Please quote me on where I claimed that Garza was the sole/main reason why the team has won 48 games to date.

I will save everyone the time and quote myself....

An 'upside' that just traded away two of the most productive players on the team in Soriano and Garza.

 

[The Bandit]

and more derailing. the smash ass brothers strike again. Any dumbass can tell we've improved marginally over the course of 2 years of the plan...

 

[mountsalami]

and more derailing. the smash ass brothers strike again. Any dumbass can tell we've improved marginally over the course of 2 years of the plan...

Sounds like a great success story. Let's hope most can keep their jobs after not trying to start off and only get marginally better from there.

Any dumbass can easily improve a team that lost over a hundred games a year ago. At least Rizzo is living up to the hype that some believe to be a core piece.

1527 and counting.............

 

[Willrust]

Until one of the prospects comes up and performs on the major league level, you cant say the major league team is in better shape. We have been bad for quite a few years.. You cant say Theo and them are helping the major league team until the major league does in fact improve greatly. It could easily happen, but it is still a complete what if.

So far, Lake, Parker and Rusin are doing fine.

 

[SilenceS]

So far, Lake, Parker and Rusin are doing fine.

Im not really sure what this means. Are you saying these are impact prospects? We are talking about the core of the minors. None of these players are in the top 20 except Lake and I pray he continues his success, but its not likely. Rusin is garbage. 2 nice starts don't tell what he really is. Parker has a chance to stick. Horrible BP should net him a good bit of opportunities if he performs.