Report: Relationship between Tom Thibodeau and GM Gar Forman "Toxic"

[RoseMVP1]

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nb...thibodeau-and-gm-gar-forman-reportedly-toxic/

According to Yahoo! Sports, there’s a power struggle brewing in Chicago. Things came to a head when Bulls GM Gar Forman fired assistant coach Ron Adams, a decision that did not sit well with head coach Tom Thibodeau: “Between Forman and Thibodeau the disconnect is deep, but (Derrick) Rose’s reconstructed knee could be a powerful agent of reconciliation. With transcendent talents, there come redemptive powers. No one wants to be ousted with Rose on the roster, because he is one of those once-in-a-lifetime players for executives and coaches. [...] As Rose returns to the Bulls after missing a full season, his most important teammate – Luol Deng – is privately disappointed over the franchise’s unwillingness to engage him in serious contract discussions. Deng could leave as a free agent this summer, could be traded before the February deadline – everything is so unsettled over his future. An assistant coach that Rose deeply valued, Ron Adams, was let go over Thibodeau’s wishes this summer because Forman didn’t like Adams’ defiant disposition. Eventually, Rose could be trapped in the middle of the Forman-Thibodeau cold war. As the months passed without Thibodeau signing his name to a four-year contract extension last season, the coach privately feared the consequences of fully committing himself to that inevitable signature, league sources said. If Thibodeau had been convinced that his GM was usurping the coach’s influence without a signed deal, he knew the finalizing of his contract would move him further to the mercy of the GM. The Bulls had a news conference for that four-year, $18 million contract on the eve of training camp in 2012, but it was months and months until Thibodeau signed his name. ‘It is a toxic relationship that I believe will ultimately derail them,’ one NBA coaching source with close ties to Thibodeau and Forman warned. As Thibodeau delivered one of the best coaching performances the NBA had witnessed in years, pushing past the loss of Rose and core rotation players to beat the Brooklyn Nets and take the Miami Heat to five games in the conference semifinals, management kept pushing to exert controls on him. What had been a strained, fractured partnership descended into permanent disrepair with Forman’s firing of Adams, the Bulls’ top assistant coach and decades-long confidant of Thibodeau’s. If Bulls management had to take Thibodeau’s criticisms and pushback, they refused to take it from Adams. As one league source said, ‘Ron didn’t drink the Kool-Aid there, and this was a message from Gar to Thibs that he’s running the show, especially on picking the players.’”

A lot of interesting things in there. Just more evidence of how much of a tool Gar Forman is. I hate people that are pompous and think they're better than everyone.

 

[Scoot26]

We don't really know what all the facts are in this power struggle.

Thibodeau is a great coach, but he has proven to come with some negatives such as playing his players too many minutes. Adams firing was simply sent as a message and because Thibodeau seemed to be communicating his disapproval through Adams to GarPax. What the true disagreement is, we simply do not know.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Think BIG.
:thinking:
Gar should start reaching out to Phil Jackson.
Dont fire Thibbs.
Just get a good friendly relationship with Phil.
Then in time, some how convince Phil that coaching the Bulls would be worth him coming back.
If GarPax could get a mutual agreement with Phil to come back if they get rid of Thibbs, then get rid of him.
Now that coaches are tradeable, we could get a good player in return for Thibbs in the process.
Phil could also help recruit Lebron James.
Lebron couldnt refuse both the greatest coach of all time and Derrick Rose in one of the top sports market in sports.

I honestly dont see how a scenerio like this is impossible.

Get it done GarPax......Yeah right.....I forgot there motto is "stand pat" :lol:

Purhaps firing Gar and Pax would make more sense than anything.

:woot:

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Haha, yeah right. When has GarPax ever gotten anything done? It will be a cold day in hell before those two ever pull the trigger on any remarkable personnel moves.

I love Thibs, hope he's our coach for a long, long time. I love Phil too, but he has zero interest in coming back to Chicago as a head coach.

Anyway, anything less than the Eastern conference finals means the end of this roster as we know it. Say good bye to Deng, Taj and Boozer.

Forman should be let go as well. Rose is the only MVP type player without another star player along side him. Forman should be fired based on principle.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Anyway, anything less than the Eastern conference finals means the end of this roster as we know it. Say good bye to Deng, Taj and Boozer.

I'm pretty sure we'll make the ECF barring several major injuries happening at the same time.

Forman should be let go as well. Rose is the only MVP type player without another star player along side him. Forman should be fired based on principle.

Arguably Stephen Curry didn't have another "star" alongside him last year. If you're considering someone like David Lee or Klay Thompson a star, you have to consider Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, and Joakim Noah stars as well. In terms of overall production, they give you about the same production relative to their positions. Even with the addition of Iguodala, it's arguable that his production is on the same level as Deng's.

Also arguably Melo has been largely by himself in NY because of Amare's injuries. And despite the fact that the Knicks have had both these stars, the Bulls have been the better team while Derrick Rose was healthy.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, given what we've had, GarPax has done a good job with the roster. The sentiment of blowing up a team that would have the potential to reach the Finals every year if it were not for the Heat screwing over everyone doesn't make any sense to me. I guess teams like the Knicks and Pacers and even Jazz of the 90s should have just blown everything up and fired their GMs because there was no way they'd get past Jordan and the Bulls. :elephant:

 

[Chi-Town Brahma]

Be nice to keep Thibs & toss Forman...


**** it, fire sale! Pax you can go too lol

 

[DMelt36]

I know absolutely nothing about any of this, but I did want to add that there's long been a rumored power struggle between Blackhawks head coach Joel Quenneville and GM Stan Bowman. Winning tends to mend those problems rather quickly.

 

[Daa Bearrs]

Haha, yeah right. When has GarPax ever gotten anything done? It will be a cold day in hell before those two ever pull the trigger on any remarkable personnel moves.

I love Thibs, hope he's our coach for a long, long time. I love Phil too, but he has zero interest in coming back to Chicago as a head coach.

Anyway, anything less than the Eastern conference finals means the end of this roster as we know it. Say good bye to Deng, Taj and Boozer.

Forman should be let go as well. Rose is the only MVP type player without another star player along side him. Forman should be fired based on principle.

I'll side with Thibs over Forman any day of the week and twice on sunday but get out of here with Rose not having enough "stars" or whatever around him. It doesn't matter how popular a player is, it only matters how good a player is, and Rose has some damn good players around him (along with elite coaching)

Noah, for instance, may not be a *ahem* "star" (as in he doesn't put as many asses in the seats and isn't in as many commercials) but he's a better player than quite a few "stars" out there. So is Deng.

Rose has a complete team around him, and I'm not going to weep for him because he has to be the primary facilitator and scorer on the team. Last time I checked the man is getting paid an absurd amount of many to play at an elite level, and since I believe that he is one of the most competitive players in the league I would hope that he would look at winning a championship as the primary ball handler and scorer on the team as worthy challenge. If his mentality is "I can't win unless I have a second guy on the team scoring 20+ a game" then I have completely misjudged his character.

 

[Axl Rose]

its funny we're always avoiding bringing in a player that may bring bad blood yet our FO constantly brings bad blood

 

[houheffna]

Rose does not have a complete team around him....I don't know what STARS Deng plays better than....but neither he or those stars are good enough to be the second guy on a championship team year in and year out. In the NBA, you usually need two stars. The Bulls have one.

 

[Daa Bearrs]

Rose does not have a complete team around him....I don't know what STARS Deng plays better than....but neither he or those stars are good enough to be the second guy on a championship team year in and year out. In the NBA, you usually need two stars. The Bulls have one.

Meh. I'm not going to go back and forth anymore because I have my opinions and you have yours and my opinions have clashed pretty harshly with a lot of users on this board. Forget Deng for a moment, imo Noah is CLEARLY a better basketball player then quite a few "stars" out there. But if you disagree you disagree, so be it.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Rose does not have a complete team around him....I don't know what STARS Deng plays better than....but neither he or those stars are good enough to be the second guy on a championship team year in and year out. In the NBA, you usually need two stars. The Bulls have one.

Right on brother.
Tell these homers the biz.
:woot:

 

[Cerebral]

When Waddle and Silvy started talking about this a lot I told myself, if the Bulls organization somehow fucked this up i'm done with them. Now, i'm not saying I'm the worlds biggest bulls fan, but I became a HUGE Bulls fan when Jordan retired in 98. That meant that every game I could watch I watched the likes of Ron Mercer, Corey Benjamin, Marcuz Fizer, Rusty LaRue, Kornel David, Khalid El Amin, attempt to make the Bulls watchable. And boy did they fail. We finally get the once on a lifetime player, a coach that is on his way to a potential HOF coaching career and they **** this up? I'll be done with them. Real talk.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

When Waddle and Silvy started talking about this a lot I told myself, if the Bulls organization somehow fucked this up i'm done with them. Now, i'm not saying I'm the worlds biggest bulls fan, but I became a HUGE Bulls fan when Jordan retired in 98. That meant that every game I could watch I watched the likes of Ron Mercer, Corey Benjamin, Marcuz Fizer, Rusty LaRue, Kornel David, Khalid El Amin, attempt to make the Bulls watchable. And boy did they fail. We finally get the once on a lifetime player, a coach that is on his way to a potential HOF coaching career and they **** this up? I'll be done with them. Real talk.

Ive been saying the same thing for years now, but noone listens.
Everytime i mentioned Pax's firing, people here got upstight and started defending Pax's every **** up. (yall know who yall are)...
I knew this shit was gonna happen.

The Bulls will never win a title with stand pat incompitent, visionless gms in control like the 2 headed GarPax monster.
A wise man once said, "2 heads are better than one", but in PaxGars case, its simply not true.

FIRE PAXGAR.NOW.........BEFORE THEY CAUSE ANYMORE DESTRUCTION TO OUR BELOVED BULLS.
I believe PaxGar are capable of alientating Derrick Rose too in the future.
When Derrick gets fet up with watching the Heat or other teams win the title year after year, dont think for 1 second that Derrick wouldnt leave and try and win elsewhere.

Maybe its time for B.J Armstrong to get his chance to run this franchise like he was supposes to in the first place.

John Paxson sux.......period.......

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Ive been saying the same thing for years now, but noone listens.
Everytime i mentioned Pax's firing, people here got upstight and started defending Pax's every **** up. (yall know who yall are)...
I knew this shit was gonna happen.

The Bulls will never win a title with stand pat incompitent, visionless gms in control like the 2 headed GarPax monster.
A wise man once said, "2 heads are better than one", but in PaxGars case, its simply not true.

FIRE PAXGAR.NOW.........BEFORE THEY CAUSE ANYMORE DESTRUCTION TO OUR BELOVED BULLS.
I believe PaxGar are capable of alientating Derrick Rose too in the future.
When Derrick gets fet up with watching the Heat or other teams win the title year after year, dont think for 1 second that Derrick wouldnt leave and try and win elsewhere.

Maybe its time for B.J Armstrong to get his chance to run this franchise like he was supposes to in the first place.

John Paxson sux.......period.......

 

[transplant]

Rose does not have a complete team around him....I don't know what STARS Deng plays better than....but neither he or those stars are good enough to be the second guy on a championship team year in and year out. In the NBA, you usually need two stars. The Bulls have one.

How many stars are there and who are they? Since Deng and Noah don't qualify, I'm guessing that the number is lower than 24...that's the # of players who make up the 2 All Star squads.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

I thinks some people get confused when you say the Bulls need another All Star player to help Rose.

What some of us mean is the Bulls need a "5-tool" elite player with athletic talent who can score consistently, play a little defense and perform well under pressure. We only have one guy like that at the moment, and his name is Derrick Rose.

 

[clonetrooper264]

How many stars are there and who are they? Since Deng and Noah don't qualify, I'm guessing that the number is lower than 24...that's the # of players who make up the 2 All Star squads.

Nah that number could still be 24...guys like Steph Curry and Deron Williams got snubbed from the all star game and you'd be silly to say that Steph Curry is not better than Luol Deng or Joakim Noah.

But like ChiSoxCity said, when people say that Rose needs another "star" they're not talking about an All Star, but rather a superstar like the Durant/Westbrook combo that OKC has or the big 3 in Miami, or to a degree what's going on in Brooklyn this season and what happened in LA last season with Dwight (who is now with Harden which makes another superstar duo). There's only a handful of those kinds of players in the league and I'm pretty sure anyone here can name them. Problem is, most of them are either not moving, or won't come here which leaves us in the no mans land of really really good, but not quite as good as team x who has players a and b (and possibly c) while we only have player d (rose).

 

[sicko]

Sound like we have another Jerry Krause, a GM jealous of all the credit the Coach and Players are getting and wants to be notice


I would gladly choose to Keep Tom and make him happy and give him more Power than to lose Tom because eventually somebody is going to come along with a sweeter deal real soon. Tom is no Vinny Del Negro, your not going to be able bully him and tell him what to do how what lineup he should use like Paxson allegedly tried to do with Vinny

I can't tell without being on the inside that Tom is not a guy you can push around

not only that but I think he might be the Best X's and O's Head Coach in the NBA at the moment other than maybe Pop with the Spurs.

 

[transplant]

But like ChiSoxCity said, when people say that Rose needs another "star" they're not talking about an All Star, but rather a superstar like the Durant/Westbrook combo that OKC has or the big 3 in Miami, or to a degree what's going on in Brooklyn this season and what happened in LA last season with Dwight (who is now with Harden which makes another superstar duo). There's only a handful of those kinds of players in the league and I'm pretty sure anyone here can name them. Problem is, most of them are either not moving, or won't come here which leaves us in the no mans land of really really good, but not quite as good as team x who has players a and b (and possibly c) while we only have player d (rose).

Nice post. Agree with most of it. However, despite all the magic people give the "two superstar" formula, I like the Bulls over Houston and Brooklyn and see them as just slightly behind OKC. The Heat have the best player on the planet and there's no getting around that. Bosh is a top-20 player IMO. Both of these guys are smack in their primes. Wade is the wild card IMO. If DWade is "The Great DWade," every team in the league is clearly outmanned by the Heat. On the other hand, if the much-discussed Wade dropoff continues, things can get interesting for the rest of the league.