Rose's Historic Season

[DASMACKDOWN]

To answer Doug's question about Rose's season and his averages.

Rookies avg 16+pts and 6+asts and 3.5+rebs in NBA History.

Oscar Robertson
Allen Iverson
Damon Stoudamire
Steve Francis
Magic Johnson
Chris Paul
Anfernee Hardaway

and

Derrick Rose

All of them were ROY besides Hardaway who was beaten by a monster named Chris Webber.

He is also the youngest of the group as a rookie.

 

[HeavyC]

Let's just hope he trends a little closer to Magic and CP3 then Steve Francis and Damon Stoudamire over the course of his career.

He's really put the numbers together pretty quietly which is encouraging. I think as he gains some more confidence and gains some more respect around the league, his ceiling is going to be very, very high.

 

[TheStig]

The impressive part is that only Penny and Magic made the playoffs their first year and both had HOF centers in Shaq and Kareem. I think that speaks volumes to Rose, his abilities and impact on our team despite the efficiency numbers. If he can work on his D, drawing contact and being more consistent throughout the game, Rose will be one of the leagues best in no time. Now we just gotta work on getting him a above average big man and lighting a fire under Deng.

 

[dougthonus]

The playoff thing is often kind of a hard thing to state because it depends a lot on what record was required to reach the playoffs and the caliber of team existing prior to drafting the player.

Rose landed on a pretty good team in a weak conference, so it's a lot different than some of those guys who landed on awful teams.

As a side note, Damon Stoudemire is interesting, because if you look at his rookie year, you'd think he was going to be a superstud in the future. However, he never really improved on it and by year 3 was declining rapidly.

Francis was a heck of a player before his knees slowed him down, he was never a superstar, but he was a legit all-star talent. A healthy francis without the horrible attitude would have had a tremendous career, and Rose definitely doesn't have Francis' attitude.

The rest of the guys are just great players all together. It's a pretty elite group to be a part of.

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

The playoff thing is often kind of a hard thing to state because it depends a lot on what record was required to reach the playoffs and the caliber of team existing prior to drafting the player.

Rose landed on a pretty good team in a weak conference, so it's a lot different than some of those guys who landed on awful teams.

As a side note, Damon Stoudemire is interesting, because if you look at his rookie year, you'd think he was going to be a superstud in the future. However, he never really improved on it and by year 3 was declining rapidly.

Francis was a heck of a player before his knees slowed him down, he was never a superstar, but he was a legit all-star talent. A healthy francis without the horrible attitude would have had a tremendous career, and Rose definitely doesn't have Francis' attitude.

The rest of the guys are just great players all together. It's a pretty elite group to be a part of.

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

 

[cool007]

It speaks volume especially Rose had to face a team full of underachievers from the previous year and then don't forget the injuries (people forget how many players missed games this year from Hinrich to hughes, Deng, Gooden, etc) and they were all important pieces since the player playing instead of them weren't all that great (Thabo/Gray/Hunter etc).

Then we had so many lineup changes and nothing set in stone, then the trade, and ofcourse a ROOKIE COACH.

When you combine all that with Rose being a Rookie PG, and we are making the playoffs is HUGE HUGE thing.

IMO, Rose and Gordon gets my Co-MVP vote for Bulls this year. They have been carrying the team since the beginning of the season and making the playoffs - the credit should go to both of them mainly.

Yeah, Salmons/Miller was a nice trade and Tyrus/Noah picking it up really helped as well but Rose/Gordon are my MVP for Bulls.

Rose without having a stud inside player, making playoffs is BIG TIME thing and we should not underrate/underestimate that.

 

[dougthonus]

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

Well it's sort of a moot point because Rose is going to make the playoffs, however, if the Bulls were in the west and missed the playoffs would Rose be worse somehow?

If LeBron was in the west then the Cavs would only have made the playoffs in 3 seasons (counting this year) out of his six in the league. I don't think less of LeBron though.

Situation does make a big difference as does the talent around you.

Garnett missed the playoffs many times in his career and then went on to lead Boston to a title.

Playoffs aer definitely meaningful, but I just don't think you can say playoffs yes / no as any kind of indication without considering conference and teammates.

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

It is and it isn't. Great players are almost always are in the playoffs. MJ never missed the playoffs till his time in Washington, Shaq, Lebron and Paul only missed their rookie year (till this year for shaq) Anthony and Magic have always been in the playoffs. The two go hand and hand, even KG made the playoffs with those horrible teams. I think it means a little more than you give it credit for. It really seems to seperate the greats and the normal allstars. I am not saying that Rose is an all time great or will be one, it is just a good lineage and I can understand your point that Rose got on a good team in a weak conference but we weren't going to the playoffs without him.

Well it's sort of a moot point because Rose is going to make the playoffs, however, if the Bulls were in the west and missed the playoffs would Rose be worse somehow?

If LeBron was in the west then the Cavs would only have made the playoffs in 3 seasons (counting this year) out of his six in the league. I don't think less of LeBron though.

Situation does make a big difference as does the talent around you.

Garnett missed the playoffs many times in his career and then went on to lead Boston to a title.

Playoffs aer definitely meaningful, but I just don't think you can say playoffs yes / no as any kind of indication without considering conference and teammates.

I don't really think its a mute point. While it is somewhat situational, the great players still make the playoffs. If Lebron went to the next West team (Denver) he would have easily had the same impact as Melo and made the playoffs every year too. You can't just transfer teams between conferences because you don't know what would happen in the previous drafts and rebuilding projects. I just think that it seperates the true greats from the all stars. Would Magic have one of the greatest legacy if he didn't play center in the finals and hit the winning jump hook as a rookie? What about Tim Duncan if he wasn't a champion in his first year? What about MJ dropping big 63 points on the c's? It isn't just skill, but a bit of luck too but you can't deny that the all time greats build their legacy by showing up in the playoffs every year.

 

[DASMACKDOWN]

The only person there who basically was kind of fluke-ish was Damon Stoudamire. I was never a huge fan of his even though his stats were good from a scoring/ast thing.

Stoudamire was very small (5'10) if that but he played a TON of minutes.40.5 mins per for his first 3 years. He wasnt exactly like the prototypical lightning fast small pgs either. He was probably slower than TJ Ford or Nate Robinson but he was crafty.

Rose compared to all the other players is just so different. He really is like a Lebron of pgs in terms of what he is physically or will be physically.

Rose in 2 years will be an absolute beast.

 

[JustinC5]

I'll qualify my statement by saying that I can really only watch games on TNT/ESPN/WGN America and saying that I think Rose is an incredible talent.

However, I think that he often suffers from Eddy Curry syndrome in that you look at the box score and he has respectable numbers, but the numbers are from generally one spurt and then the rest of the game is pretty lackluster (albeit Eddy's came in the 1st qtr and Rose's generally come in the 3rd or 4th from what I can tell).

He certainly isn't at the level of a Kobe or a Lebron where they can sleep walk through the first quarter allowing others to get involved first.

I think next season, I'd like to see a more consistent level of play from Rose. I'd also like to see how the team in general responds to expectations next season. This season, there were none at all. So when teams actually go into the season game planning for Rose, I'd like to see how he responds.

 

[SArmonte90]

As alot of you already know in the ALL STAR game Ovechkin threw a stick at Matt Duchene when Duchene was attemping a break away goal. What's up with that? Your in a ALL STAR game and you make a childish move like that? I don't know, I just hate when these big so called "godly" players do shit like this.

 

[jakobeast]

As alot of you already know in the ALL STAR game Ovechkin threw a stick at Matt Duchene when Duchene was attemping a break away goal. What's up with that? Your in a ALL STAR game and you make a childish move like that? I don't know, I just hate when these big so called "godly" players do shit like this.

I thought it was fine. The All Star game is an excersize in silliness. That said, I did like watching it. Ovi didn't throw it at Duchene really. He threw the stick on/along the ice at the puck. It got the first penalty shot in an All Star game, which was exciting for the fans there.



You would more then likely never see that at an actual game, and it didn't bother me that much. Yeah, he shouldn't have done that, but if it is gonna happen, may as well be at a non meaningful game.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

You do realize the ALLSTAR game is an exhibition and is SUPPOSED to be fun/silly right? LOL @ complaining and making it seem like he actually THREW his stick at Duchene.

 

[MassHavoc]

Didn't see it, anyone got video?

 

[IceHogsFan]

You do realize the ALLSTAR game is an exhibition and is SUPPOSED to be fun/silly right? LOL @ complaining and making it seem like he actually THREW his stick at Duchene.

I disagree. What a tool move by a player that has a history of injuring other players.

What if he stepped on the stick and went head first into the boards? Silly is one thing

but coming from him I would question whether his intent was humor and if it was he should

refrain from such acts because of his reputation in that regard.

 

[MassHavoc]

I disagree. What a tool move by a player that has a history of injuring other players.

What if he stepped on the stick and went head first into the boards? Silly is one thing

but coming from him I would question whether his intent was humor and if it was he should

refrain from such acts because of his reputation in that regard.

Without having seen it, I"m inclined to agree with this. I mean... how many other penalties were there in the game?

 

[chasman]

I did not see it that way...I thought he did it because he was beat big time and he just slid it way in front of the kid.

If I remember right he had a big smile on his face after he did it. Duchane was smiling also.

He had to know that it would be a penalty shot, thought the kid would make the shot anyway.

 

[JOVE23]

He also jumped into the glass when he fanned on a one-timer. HOW UNPROFESSIONAL OF HIM



Oh well, Sharpie got MVP. I just hope there wasn't a clause in his contrac....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Ton]

I thought it was kind of childish but I didn't really care much. That's just OV in my eyes being OV.



I'm sure he had no intentions of actually hurting anyone on that play, hes an entertainer, and gave Duchene a chance at the first All-Star penalty shot in league history. Something tells me Gary Bettman gave OV a pat on the back for that one.

 

[thanson1990]

I thought it was immature, and potentially dangerous. I remember during a game against Nashville a few years back, Wiz stepped on a stick during a fight and ended up tearing his ACL. I know that's a little different, but IMO throwing a stick like that could cause a similar injury.