Roster turnover the last two years

[bamainatlanta]

1. Roquan - completely fucked that up and didn’t receive proper comp

2. Claypool - one of the worst trades this franchise has ever experienced.

3. Carter - essentially traded him for a 4th rd pick.

4. Not addressing C

5. Used 4 fucking second round picks in 2 years on defensive players that look like JAG’s or even worse.

6. The JJ situation

7. Flus

8. Velus Jones - nuff said

9. 21 drat picks - maybe 2 good players, 3 JAG’s and the rest will be out of the league shortly.

10. July still out - The Sweat contract. I’m hoping to see more to justify the draft pick and contract. 1 sack so far (when he wasn’t even blocked)

Lololololol. Same guy that can’t tell the difference between Whitehair & Davis. Meatball 1000%

 

[DanielCCSBears]

The defense absolutely needs to get better and our defensive minded coach is putting together a horrible argument for why he should be retained. But here, you are using what they did better in a vacuum as a throwaway comment, as if you are tipping your hat to observe an isolated occurrence. The team was playing with vigor for most of the game and the defense was playing above their weight until the end. This team has had drives in past games where they were able to do that, and now they were almost able to keep it up for a game. We are months removed from the period when this team was bleeding talent (which is why using last year as trend data for this year is illogical).

It is right to give the players credit for how they improved and to give them credit for where they can go if they keep it up. Like it or not, this DL still needs help on the pass rush, and has for a long time, and yet in this post you seem to hold that against the secondary. Is it not common knowledge that a bad pass rush allows all DBs, nomatter how talented, to get roasted all game?

The italicized is where I want to draw your attention on that note, because it is case-in-point that you start from the perspective that they arent good enough and refuse to acknowledge growth as it happens.

But the bolded is where I want to comment most, because this is the kind of thing that makes me believe you never played organized sports - at least not past the youth leagues where everyone gets a turn at bat and a pizza party comes after. Hope dictates effort in so many ways, hope is shown in many ways and effort comes forth in many ways. Someone that comes in as a high effort player, and is willing to fight through significant contact to make a play, and keep energy up all game, is of incredible importance. Do you not think that players who loaf have an affect on the effort other players give on a play? The incredible come backs in this league start and end because tone-setters don't quit on the win no matter the score. In a game where everyone is asked to take a beating, that makes a significant difference. Hell, Brisker is nowhere near the talent today that Urlacher was in his second year in the league, but in your lifetime you saw Brian Urlacher keep this defense strong to steal a win from Denny Green's Cardinals. If you take away the tone setter, that defense gives up because of the score and Chicago loses that game.

"This team was playing with vigor"

Is that why the Lions were 5 for 5 on third down to start the game?

The old Herm Edwards rant seems to fit here "you play to win the game"

That defense didn't play for the full 60 minutes.

I've never seen a board of fans so excited over a moral victory.

It's like this fan base is so resigned to failure that they're now keen to making a huge deal out of small insignificant plays as a way to hope the future.

You are what your record says you are.

 

[gallagher]

"This team was playing with vigor"

Is that why the Lions were 5 for 5 on third down to start the game?

The old Herm Edwards rant seems to fit here "you play to win the game"

That defense didn't play for the full 60 minutes.

I've never seen a board of fans so excited over a moral victory.

It's like this fan base is so resigned to failure that they're now keen to making a huge deal out of small insignificant plays as a way to hope the future.

You are what your record says you are.

This is unnecessary negativity and it is no wonder nobody on this board likes to talk with you. If you were trying to talk sports around the watercooler, I and others would just walk away and talk elsewhere because you don't have a conversation about football, it is just negative jab after negative jab. You cannot see players getting better and give them credit for getting better. You don't give two shits about effort. This defense punched above it's weight and fell short. You are so focused on how they fell short that everything else falls to the side.

I would guarantee that if you were on that team and played the game yesterday, that you would have resigned yourself to failure and quit because you felt that it was hopeless to try. If you played for Detroit, you would have also quit on the Lions in 2021 because they lost games in way that tested their resolve. I wonder if you were a Lions fan during that time, how you would have talked about their 2021 team.

A lot of fans are excited because our players didn't let a playoff team walk all over them, which is what a lot of people expected out of this team. I don't know why that doesn't give you something positive to consider while we - the fans - look forward to another tough divisional matchup. A tough divisional matchup where, once again, the prevailing belief will be that Chicago is lining up to get bricked.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

This is unnecessary negativity and it is no wonder nobody on this board likes to talk with you. If you were trying to talk sports around the watercooler, I and others would just walk away and talk elsewhere because you don't have a conversation about football, it is just negative jab after negative jab. You cannot see players getting better and give them credit for getting better. You don't give two shits about effort. This defense punched above it's weight and fell short. You are so focused on how they fell short that everything else falls to the side.

I would guarantee that if you were on that team and played the game yesterday, that you would have resigned yourself to failure and quit because you felt that it was hopeless to try. If you played for Detroit, you would have also quit on the Lions in 2021 because they lost games in way that tested their resolve. I wonder if you were a Lions fan during that time, how you would have talked about their 2021 team.

A lot of fans are excited because our players didn't let a playoff team walk all over them, which is what a lot of people expected out of this team. I don't know why that doesn't give you something positive to consider while we - the fans - look forward to another tough divisional matchup. A tough divisional matchup where, once again, the prevailing belief will be that Chicago is lining up to get bricked.

Unnecessary negativity? This team has won 6 of 28 games and I'm being overly negative?

It's quite possible that they have one more game on their schedule that they might be favored to win, against the Cardinals.

I never once yesterday was confident that they were going to win and that thought is reflective of the in game conversation on this board. No one had any real confidence that they were going to win.

Yes the coaching is consistently bad but at some point someone needs to step up and make a play to assure victory. Just one player needs one shining moment for the Bears to get the win.

Nothing from no one.

Like as an example Aidan Hutchinson didn't need to make that play. He didn't need that sack to assure the win but he did it any way.

Where's that guy to make that play for the Bears?

 

[gallagher]

(1) Unnecessary negativity? This team has won 6 of 28 games and I'm being overly negative?

(2) It's quite possible that they have one more game on their schedule that they might be favored to win, against the Cardinals.

(3) I never once yesterday was confident that they were going to win and that thought is reflective of the in game conversation on this board. No one had any real confidence that they were going to win.

(4) Yes the coaching is consistently bad but at some point someone needs to step up and make a play to assure victory. Just one player needs one shining moment for the Bears to get the win.

Nothing from no one.

(5) Like as an example Aidan Hutchinson didn't need to make that play. He didn't need that sack to assure the win but he did it any way.

Where's that guy to make that play for the Bears?

(1) Yes. And this itemized post that you just made also proves it. In the biz, we would call this prima facie evidence. Last year this team shed contracts and traded stars with the intent on getting as high of a draft pick as possible. You are ignoring the facts of the matter as if you werent paying attention.

(2) True. Zero argument here, but for context I don't much care for who is favored when, that is mostly for people who gamble. This team was not favored to win at all against Detroit and played their way to have an actual shot at an upset. This game was a thriller for a fanbase that was preparing to see them get slaughtered not unlike they did against KC earlier this year.

(3) Two parts to this one - first, if you never once had any confidence that they would win, then why are you not excited that they played like they had a chance the entire time? Why are you not joining the fans in excitement that for most of the game, Chicago was playing with a chance for the upset? I am not here to play gatekeeper to how people enjoy their team, but you post like there is nothing to enjoy about the first 50 minutes of game time. Second part is that the conversation on this board in the in game thread had tons of comments sharing excitement every time the team was giving the effort it took to win. I was in there and shared joy and pain for every up and down. So your post is either a lie or a horrible misrepresentation of the attitude of fans on this message board. There was tons of positive energy in there and you choose to share in none of it.

(4) You are absolutely correct in your antecedent but you use it to just dismiss it. The coaching is horrendous and there will be zero arguments on here to them getting fired. Except for the Lions and Packers fans that show up on here, of course. But the moments here this team could have put Detroit in the ground were squandered by coaching decisions, and you are putting that on the players. JJ failed when he had a chance at a pick-6. That is on the player. The missed opportunity on 4-1 and chose to go for a FG when a TD would have been too big a hurdle to overcome? That was a coaching decision. RB dives into a stacked box to waste a timeout when they needed to play for a 4-minute drive? That was a HC choice. I am not going to call on the players to execute better when the plays were not designed to succeed in that manner. Were you expecting those plays to go for 4 yards a plod and set up an easy 3rd down conversion? I want to know why the plays were not called to have the stars play to win the game - using Fields speed and Moore's incredible talent to give them a chance to win - because that is a coaching decision to have your first-round-worthy-talent step up to win the game.

(5) There is no argument that this team still has to add talent to play like they need to, to close games against a better opponent. But again, if I work back to items (1), you intentionally ignore the reality of how this team became short on talent. The person who was put in a position to make that play to win was WR Scott, who came up just short because he made a single misstep with the ball in the air. That is how close our rookie, late round WR was to making the big play we would all be talking about that set us up to ice the game. Hutchinson iced the game by eating a rookie RT's lunch, which is how Khalil Mack led this defense to beat Tom Brady in Tampa.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

The hc/gm hire was a circus show and this is the result of it. Got allot of shit for calling it out when it happened. Allot of people with extra small claypool jerseys are really butt hurt rn but they will do the same cope during the next round of bad hirings

 

[DanielCCSBears]

(1) Yes. And this itemized post that you just made also proves it. In the biz, we would call this prima facie evidence. Last year this team shed contracts and traded stars with the intent on getting as high of a draft pick as possible. You are ignoring the facts of the matter as if you werent paying attention.

It's nice that you think that they made those trades to tank. That you've actively bought into the media narrative that NFL teams tank for a better draft pick and that the Bears somehow followed a formula to "tank".

Here's why the media driven narrative that the Bears were tanking is absolute bullshit a step by step guide.

#1 The Bears were 3-4 and not out of the playoff hunt because the Lions Packers and the Vikings had done nothing to establish themselves with the division as clear favorites. The Vikings were continuously winning games by one score and in danger of a collapse. The Packers had chemistry problems between their rookie WRs and Aaron Rodgers and the Lions were still the Lions (the Lions won 7 straight to close out the year)

#2 Justin Fields and the offense had just run through the Patriots and were the talk of the league. The offense had just put together their best effort and were allegedly on the verge of making a run

#3 They traded for Chase Claypool to add an additional immediate weapon for Justin Fields and Poles stated it was a move to be made for a playoff run.

#4 Trading away Robert Quinn who was having very little impact after his 18.5 sack season was about moving playing time around to give the fifth round pick Robinson a shot to learn on the job. He flashed against the 49ers and for some reason lost playing time. If your fifth round pick is having equal impact as the tenured veteran you give the young guy a chance by trading away the guy who is having minimal impact.

#5 Roquan Smith wasn't having the type of impact they envisioned him having and they knew they could trade him away move Jack Sanborn up to the starting role and have minimal production drop off because Sanborn was playing so well.

You add up those 5 things and they don't equal a deliberate effort to lose 11 straight games.

Evidence from last year to this year that Ryan Poles and Matt Eberflus don't know what they're doing and that's why this team has lost 22 of their last 28 games are as abundant last year as they are this year.

#1Eberflus is a horrible coach, Getsy is a horrible offensive coordinator. Both of those are factors in the Bears losing last year and this year.

#2They have one good receiver in DJ Moore but teams can take him away because there's no other weapon at WR on the roster.

#3The offensive line is still in shambles because Braxton Jones is overrated and just about every fan on this message board has him being replaced if they stick with Fields. They have no center and they have no depth and trading for Feeney was a panic move to try and fix the problem Ryan Poles has created.

#4. The front seven is still one of the worst in the NFL. Draft picks and free agent signees are not playing to up snuff in terms of starter impact and depth impact. They had to trade for an average pass rusher and then way overpaid for a guy that benefitted from having one of the best pass rushing DTs in the game playing next to him. A player that's never had a 10 digit sack season.

#5 The secondary is a mess that is among the worst in the NFL in forcing turnovers. A hard hitting safety that doesn't force fumbles or get picks or make any impact plays. No consistent INT production from three major players added in Gordon Smith and Stevenson.

#6 I don't even need to talk about Justin Fields but rest assured I will if someone is dumb enough to argue that the above 5 things are affecting his game.

 

[gallagher]

It's nice that you think that they made those trades to tank. That you've actively bought into the media narrative that NFL teams tank for a better draft pick and that the Bears somehow followed a formula to "tank".

Here's why the media driven narrative that the Bears were tanking is absolute bullshit a step by step guide.

[snip]

You add up those 5 things and they don't equal a deliberate effort to lose 11 straight games.

Evidence from last year to this year that Ryan Poles and Matt Eberflus don't know what they're doing and that's why this team has lost 22 of their last 28 games are as abundant last year as they are this year.

#1Eberflus is a horrible coach, Getsy is a horrible offensive coordinator. Both of those are factors in the Bears losing last year and this year.

#2They have one good receiver in DJ Moore but teams can take him away because there's no other weapon at WR on the roster.

#3The offensive line is still in shambles because Braxton Jones is overrated and just about every fan on this message board has him being replaced if they stick with Fields. They have no center and they have no depth and trading for Feeney was a panic move to try and fix the problem Ryan Poles has created.

#4. The front seven is still one of the worst in the NFL. Draft picks and free agent signees are not playing to up snuff in terms of starter impact and depth impact. They had to trade for an average pass rusher and then way overpaid for a guy that benefitted from having one of the best pass rushing DTs in the game playing next to him. A player that's never had a 10 digit sack season.

#5 The secondary is a mess that is among the worst in the NFL in forcing turnovers. A hard hitting safety that doesn't force fumbles or get picks or make any impact plays. No consistent INT production from three major players added in Gordon Smith and Stevenson.

#6 I don't even need to talk about Justin Fields but rest assured I will if someone is dumb enough to argue that the above 5 things are affecting his game.

Buddy, the italicized part of your post falls apart because you are putting words in my mouth. They traded Smith for the highest price they could. They traded Quinn for as high a pick they could. They were cutting contracts and getting the best return they could because the intent as to tear it down. Hey, I can see how it sounded like I inferred the tank narrative, no harm no foul.

The rest of the post is supporting what I said in item (1), which is the only part of my post that you responded to. The point was that your negativity does not give due credit that last year was all about getting rid of bad contracts and getting the best return you can, where you can. You are stating facts about the current defense without giving them credit for having been part of a total rebuild. At the same time, you are holding last year against the current squad where last year was significantly affected by the state that Pace left the salary cap.

Your point #1 is correct and Flus and Getsy should be fired. We should absolutely be talking about the coaches that we think would turn this around. Items 2-5 are statements that observe how hard it is to come back from a nearly-barren roster, one that was barren because of the state of the finances Poles inherited from the last regime which was really irresponsible with money.

You are holding it against Poles, without saying it outright, that he is being financially conservative. It is a consequence of you holding the facts of last year against the current roster. I would say is the responsible way to go about free agency, given that he took over a mess of a balance book, is to not spend top dollar for top FAs while the team is still in the process of turning things around. Are you here to argue that he should have gone into the offseason intent to spend every dime getting top FAs into the building? If you just payed off an old credit card, would you then turn around spend up to your borrowing limit?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

So there's been two years of a complete roster overhaul with this team and this is what we're left with in terms of talent. One of the worst losses in the history of the NFL.

No team in the history of the league had ever forced three turnovers held the ball for 40 minutes of time of possession and lost.

Ryan Poles is ultimately responsible for everything.

So do you trust him to try and rebuild this team a second time with these players and who would you want to keep?

I ask this because no one offense or defense made a key play in a critical situation today in the fourth quarter on offense or defense.

This team continues to unravel and some point someone has to take on the individual responsibility of their own failures.

I'm not excusing the coaching it's awful but I honestly don't see even a basic foundation to build on with those that are here. I see guys that can contribute sure but there's no one that's untouchable.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726668873402093892

 

[DanielCCSBears]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726668873402093892

Ah yes the old reliable ESPN pass rush win rate stat.

Here's their pass block win rate stat for centers a year ago. Sam Mustipher is a Top-10 center in 2022. Do you agree that Mustipher was a Top-10 center?

 

[Spitta Andretti]

Why people continue to take this fat loser (OP) seriously is beyond me