S & T possibilities with Gordon

[Manic Devourer]

Though it's a possibility that Gordon can still remain a Bull next season, I'm sure putting emotions aside at this point it is more realisitic that Gordon will be gone. Under the assumption that Gordon won't re-sign with the Bulls, you'd have to be convinced that Paxson will refuse to let him walk for nothing. So which teams are the most viable sign and trade partners?

For arguments sake, lets say that Gordon will re-sign for approx. to a 8-10 million contract.

Bobcats

Bell + Felton for Gordon (swap of first round draft picks)

For Bulls: We get a back up point guard who can also play shooting guard. It will also path the way into a trading of Deng, so Salmons can stay at small forward, and Bell can be the shooting guard. A 3 guard rotation of Bell, Rose and Felton at least for a year doesn't seem too bad.

For Bobcats: They drafted Augustin, so would you prefer a dynamic 20 point scorer whilst still giving Augustin plenty of minutes or do you keep Augustin coming off the bench whilst starting Felton? I bet they wouldn't mind a scorer like Gordon on their roster, plus Jordan knows how good Gordon is.


Rockets

McGrady + Lowry + Dorsey + future draft pick for Deng + Gordon + James

For Bulls: On a talent to talent basis, we obviously lose out, but this gives us another huge expiring contract whilst getting rid of Deng ridiculously bad contract. Even having Tracy for 40 games isn't all that bad either. In addition we get a strong point guard in Lowry who can play a bit of the 2 also, who will willingly back up Rose. We also get a buddy of Rose's in Dorsey and an additional first round pick in the future.

For Rockets: Why wouldn't they? They could technically let Artest go and not worry about the ticking bomb and basically get a whole lot younger, and a lot more fire power in just one more whilst keeping Yao happy. Gordon on the outside whilst defenses converge on Yao, dejavu in Houston? Then we sell to them that Deng still has a lot left in his game, and we have a deal.

Heat

Haslem + Wright + first round pick for Gordon

For the Bulls: Haslem gives us another big body, Wright we could basically cut if need be. It isn't a trade that we would openly go after, but if we can't get much back from other teams(as is the situation with most sign and trades), why not try to get a decent asset plus a draft pick.

For the Heat: Gordon and Wade can share the ball handling responsibilities, and they would automatically become the highest scoring back court in the league, and it won't even be close. Without Haslem, you plug Beasley right into that spot.

Downside is that we'd be trading Gordon to an Eastern conference rival which we would likely hae to face for some time in the playoffs.
Bucks

Ridnour + Alexander for Gordon

For the Bulls: We get a temp. back up point guard, and we get a cheap player for at least 4 years in hopes that he continues to develop. Basically a, 'get something or nothing' type of deal.

For the Bucks: Alexander won't likely get minutes until Skiles gets fired, and Gordon has played for Skiles, maybe he'd be inclined to be re-united again?

Wolves

Foye + Cardinal for Gordon

For the Bulls: Cardinal is another expiring contract we can use by the trading deadline. Foye is a big body that we can use as a super 6th man that can come in at either the point guard or shooting guard spot. He loves to score, and we'd allow him to score as much as he'd like coming off the bench.

For the Wolves: Cardinal, do I really need to explain? Foye hasn't exactly been the ideal fit with the Wolves, so why not trade essentially a shooting point guard, for a shooting guard who is much better? And when you have a great post player like Jefferson it's always a wise thing to try and bring in a great three point shooter along.
Magic

Battie + Lee for Gordon

For the Bulls: We get another veteran big man, that can just give a veteran presences in the locker-room and allow for Tyrus and Noah to continue to make a few mistakes here and there knowing that we'd have Miller and Battie sitting on the bench ready to go. Lee, he was touted as a scorer and shooter, yet has made his biggest impact in his young career as a defender. Once he develops his offensive game, and continues to work on his defense, he could be a good one.

For the Magic: Say the Magic lose in the second round, or in the conference finals, would they not be inclined or at least intrigued by adding a player such as Gordon to their roster if they had the chance, even if it meant losing a player like Lee that they seem to really like?

Chances are they'd say no, but if they were close, I bet they'd have to think long and hard about losing only Battie and Lee to add a player of the calibre of Gordon to their roster.


Conclusion

Chances are that we won't get anything close to as much talent in return as I've suggested above, as most sign and trades don't result in the other team receiving anything of equal value back most times.

So if we were to sign and trade Gordon, what type of deal would you expect or want?

 

[dougthonus]

Actually, I think that if we could afford to do a S&T with Gordon that we'd just keep him instead. The problem is the luxury tax will prevent us from taking back anything interesting.

 

[Basghetti80]

A sign and trade is unlikely but if one was done it would be where we take back much less salary than we send out in Gordon(i.e. it would be to a team with some capspace). Miami is going to have a lot of interest. I firmly believe they were the most interested team last summer. I think this upcoming summer Gordon for Cook and a future pick could work. Daequan Cook would be a nice bench shooter at the SG/SF spot.

 

[cool007]

Like Doug already said. Why do sign and trade??? If we do that, then that means we are playing lux tax. If we are doing that then why not just Keep him???

It's a NO BRAINER.

Besides, all those trades are SOOOOOOOOO bad at so many levels - not even funny.

 

[Manic Devourer]

cool007 wrote:

Like Doug already said. Why do sign and trade??? If we do that, then that means we are playing lux tax. If we are doing that then why not just Keep him???

It's a NO BRAINER.

Besides, all those trades are SOOOOOOOOO bad at so many levels - not even funny.

Most sign and trades are bad, I'm not denying that.

But everyone is assuming that Gordon actually wants to be back. So are you saying that you'd prefer to just let him walk if we don't doesn't sign with us? Because I certainly don't want to lose him for nothing.

 

[dougthonus]

But everyone is assuming that Gordon actually wants to be back. So are you saying that you'd prefer to just let him walk if we don't doesn't sign with us? Because I certainly don't want to lose him for nothing.

I don't think your S&Ts are bad. I just think that they all require us to pay the luxury tax, so we won't do them. If we were going to pay the luxury tax then I think we'd jsut keep Gordon.

I think Gordon is open to returning as long as we're the high bidder. I think he's welcome to going anywhere that's the high bidder, and given that there are only a couple teams who can bid, I think we would be the high bidder if we went into the tax.

 

[Manic Devourer]

dougthonus wrote:

But everyone is assuming that Gordon actually wants to be back. So are you saying that you'd prefer to just let him walk if we don't doesn't sign with us? Because I certainly don't want to lose him for nothing.

I don't think your S&Ts are bad. I just think that they all require us to pay the luxury tax, so we won't do them. If we were going to pay the luxury tax then I think we'd jsut keep Gordon.

I think Gordon is open to returning as long as we're the high bidder. I think he's welcome to going anywhere that's the high bidder, and given that there are only a couple teams who can bid, I think we would be the high bidder if we went into the tax.

That's true, if we were to do a sign and trade we'd go over the luxury - which is why most of the trades I try to get a player that's still on a rookie contract and an expiring 2010 contract in return. Having an expiring contract in the range of 5-6 million is easier to buy out.

I just think that we've burnt our bridges with Gordon, and if he were to get a contract offer at similar price range, he'll go play for another team instead. I bet when it's all said and done we'll likely do a sign and trade and be really disappointed with the return.

 

[TheStig]

Not that I want to trade BG but we could always do a s&t like Orlando did for Lewis. We would get a large TE and maybe a pick of some sort.

 

[dougthonus]

I just think that we've burnt our bridges with Gordon, and if he were to get a contract offer at similar price range, he'll go play for another team instead. I bet when it's all said and done we'll likely do a sign and trade and be really disappointed with the return.

I don't think that's the case that we've burnt the bridge based on what I've heard. I don't think Gordon gives us a discount, but I certainly don't think he takes less money to go elsewhere either.

I think he's comfortable staying here if we make him a good offer.

To me, it will all come down to whether we pay the tax or can find a way to avoid paying the tax.

 

[anorexorcist]

I just don't see this "Gordon has burnt his bridges" thing. I thought that initially at the beginning of the season, but the Bulls have been giving him normal minutes and he has not talked about the contract thing at all during the season. I'm sure he's also aware of the economy, and I'm sure he also knows that the better Rose gets, the better he is going to get as well.

Without Derrick as a foil, I don't see Ben putting up the stats he produced this year on his own. He could try and get that somewhere else but it's no sure thing. Even if Ben does have some animosity towards management, it's probably more along the lines of "the devil you know" in his mind at this point.

I am slightly more optimistic now than I was in October, that he'll be back with us.

 

[dougthonus]

I am slightly more optimistic now than I was in October, that he'll be back with us.

I was far more optimistic prior to the trade deadline. We could have signed him and stayed under the tax, and we had no real replacement for his shooting or scoring.

Now we have another scorer, another shooter, and we have no room under the tax.

 

[Fred]

I have to get my Gordon talk in, because I'm retiring from talking about Gordon in a few days.

8.16.09
Gordon admitted he's frustrated and "feels slighted" by the slow pace of negotiations with the Bulls. He said at this point it would be best for him to play elsewhere since Chicago's backcourt is seemingly full, with Derrick Rose, Larry Hughes and Kirk Hinrich.
"It's a numbers game," he said. "Last season at the trade deadline, they brought in more guards and I saw my minutes drop and didn't understand why....maybe it'll be a better situation for me personally somewhere else." - ESPN.com

I completely agreed with him then, and I completely agree with him now. I wouldn't stay here unless they put a contract on the table that's greater than what Luol is making. If I'm going to sign a contract that makes me the 2nd or 3rd highest player on that team, I'd rather sign with a team like Miami, where I would actually be the 2nd best player. There isn't a player on this roster that's been better than him over the past 5 years, and this organization has shown the love to Noce, Hinrich, and Deng, all inferior players. And when it comes to the business of basketball, love is cash and that's all that matters.

Man oh man, thank God we lucked into Rose.

 

[dougthonus]

I completely agreed with him then, and I completely agree with him now. I wouldn't stay here unless they put a contract on the table that's greater than what Luol is making.

No one will offer Gordon remotely what Luol is making. Are you suggesting that if you were Gordon you would go some place else and sacrifice say 10 million dollars because you feel slighted?

If I'm going to sign a contract that makes me the 2nd or 3rd highest player on that team, I'd rather sign with a team like Miami, where I would actually be the 2nd best player.

I would sign for the most money I could most likely. I may eliminate a couple teams that are absolute cess pools or have highly undesirable cities. History would show that they vast, vast majority of FAs would agree with the "most money" philosophy and not the "I need to be the X best player and the X highest paid player on my team" philosophy.

There isn't a player on this roster that's been better than him over the past 5 years, and this organization has shown the love to Noce, Hinrich, and Deng, all inferior players. And when it comes to the business of basketball, love is cash and that's all that matters.

Hinrich's extension was 47.5 million, Noc's was 38. They offered Gordon 50 and 54 million.

I know you are the guardian of Ben's personal feelings, but who gives a crap, in the end, the Gordon will have turned down the two best financial offers that he will ever see in his life. He deserves as much or more blame than anyone if he ends up signing with another team for 10 million less than he was offered here twice.

 

[Ralphb07]

I've been back and forth on this but IMO Gordon is staying. They value Gordon more than Kirk and I don't see a team offering Gordon more than we did last year.

I think Kirk is traded and between Nelson and the draft we should be able to find cheap guys to replace Kirk.

I just really don't see how the Bulls let Gordon go after this season. We could have something very special with Gordon and Rose. Also we can't forget that Deng will be back which makes Salmons go to Kirk's role but playing SG/SF.

 

[collisrost]

I agree, Doug. Gordon screwed himself this summer. I love Ben Gordon, I think we should have signed him when he was willing to take the offer after our deadline, but he screwed up and he's going to lose a lot of money as a result.

That might possibly work out well for the Bulls if they can get him for a slightly discounted rate based on the market this year.

 

[jgonboricua]

i would love to keep gordon but if we have to do a sign & trade wonder if we could somehow nab andre iguodala from the sixers...i know your thinking their is no way they would trade him to us...but your forgetting they have thadeus young who is younger and is also a sf who is playing out of position....
maybe a sign and trade of gordon and our 2 1st round picks for iguodala? we could essentially trade hinrich and gordon to philli for iguodala and a filler...i think philli is going to look for a replacement for adre miller since he is geting up there in age...then maybe ship deng to portland for outlaw and steve blake

Rose/blake
salmons
iguodala/outlaw
Thomas/Miller
Noah/Gray

iguodala will be basically be the guy we all wanted deng to be this year....

 

[klemmer]

This is what is wrong with the media today..



Get the story out first. Getting it out right is secondary.





Quote: [font=Georgia, Century, Times, serif]"Astronaut Neil Young, first man to walk on moon, dies at age 82," the error was reportedly on the site for 10 minutes and was noticed by many online.[/font]



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/08/25/neil-young-armstrong-nbc-mistake_n_1830502.html

 

[KMChechASS69r]

Maybe Neil Young is that pundits fave musician?

 

[MassHavoc]

Very sad day for my fellow boilers, and the world. RIP Neil.