The Bulls MO - same for the past 25 years

[dunkside.com]

I just finished reading "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith and although he makes an effort to make Reinsdorf not look like a dick, you can see that the Bulls have the same modus operandi now as they did 25 years ago. Reading the book just confirmed my thoughts on who's really calling the shots and what to expect from the Bulls.

Things that haven't changed in 20+ years:

* contract negotiations are being stalled by the Bulls

* promises are made, promises that don't mean shit. Than negotiations are stalled till other teams use their cap so the player loses some options (if he's foolish enough to wait for the Bulls and believe their promises) which puts the Bulls in a position of force. I guess that's why extensions were offered in the last possible minute, so there won't be much time for the agents to negotiate and find out what the market can offer.

* there isn't an actual negotiation, but Reinsdorf expects a player to come to him with the best offer he can get on the market (if he's FA) and then he'll make an offer. Take it or leave it.

* the GM (whoever he is) and Reinsdorf play bad cop, good cop. The GM is a dick and makes final offers, and if the player doesn't fold, then Reinsdorf comes and sweetens the deal, overriding the GM.

* major trades are NOT done (unless they save the Bulls some money). The Bulls CLAIM they work on trades, but every single f**king time there is some reason why they don't make the trade. There are always excuses. ALWAYS. The other team balked, the other team demanded too much, the dog ate the Bulls scouting report on the player etc

Of course, since at one point Krause wanted another team to give him a pick for free, you can imagine how anything the other team asks for can be too much for the Bulls. I can imagine the conversation:
- Kobe wants out, and he wants to go to the Bulls. We only want a 2nd round pick for him
- a 2nd round pick ? Waaaay too much. How about you offer us Kobe, a couple of 1st round picks and some cash and maybe we'll talk.

* the Bulls don't care about winning. All they want is a good enough team for them to sell tickets. There's no financial incentive for paying extra to win a title. In fact, I think they are most profitable if they have a team good enough to make the 1st round (and maybe, occasionally, the 2nd round)

That's how Jordan felt about it 20 years ago, and that's how things are. The fact that the Bulls won those titles was just an incredible streak of luck considering how they go about business. The most important part was them having Jordan underpaid for most of the period and Pippen severely underpaid for the entire run.

Jordan was underpaid till 1996, and then, when it was time to pay him, even if he agreed to give him 30 mil, Reinsdorf actually told Jordan that NOBODY was worth that much money. Can you believe that ? What a way to try and keep the best player ever with your team ....

Pippen was underpaid till 1998, and Reinsdorf let him walk instead of paying him.

****************************************

CONCLUSION: This stuff is not recent. Is not related to Paxson. You can see the Bulls have been doing the same shit for over 20 years. They just happened to luck in on Jordan and win those titles. But now for 10 years you could see the results of their approach. And they again lucked in on Rose, but he's no GOAT and I doubt they'll be able to replicate the luck they had with Pippen and Phil Jackson.

You should brace yourselves for 10+ years of 1st round exits, "failed" trade talks and lots of false hope.

And for the immediate future, forget about Boozer, forget about Bosh, forget about any FA that costs more than the MLE. Also, forget about the MLE. So learn to enjoy mediocrity, or start watching other teams, too.

 

[Kush77]

Good stuff.

Reinsdorf is scum. He doesn't care about winning, he cares about making money. If his team happens to win along with making money, that's fine.

I don't know why any Bulls fan would give him the benefit of the doubt. Bulls management has been a joke my entire time of watching them.

Only Bulls management could alienate the best player of all-time and one of the best coaches of all-time.

They also let their relationship with Pippen deteriorate. I'm sure any other management, while winning multiple titles, would have just renegotiated a deal with Scottie. But that's how the Bulls do things, money first.

This is also the same team that somehow botched the Horace Grant situation. You let an all-star PF that started on your three title teams walk. Another great job by the Jerrys. Of course they got bailed out with the Rodman trade.

It's funny when folks in the media try to defend him and say "well he's the only owner that's won championships." Not his doing by any means. Anyone can sign checks.

The sooner Jerry goes away, the better.

 

[TheStig]

Thats why I call them the brain trust of mediocrity and profits, because thats all they care about, yes men and money. If you don't conform to their opinion on either of those items your gone.

 

[pinkizdead]

i'm performing a hexing spell for jerry on the next full moon. if any bulls fans want to attend, they're more than welcome. byob and byo-cauldron

 

[B1LLIONAIREKR3W]

all true!! but for some reason bulls fans all ways blame paxson. leave paxson alone!!!!!! jerry is a ******* :angry:

 

[dunkside.com]

I don't agree Paxson gets a free pass. He's one of Reinsdorf's minions and he sold his soul for a few bucks. Ok, for a few million bucks. But he doesn't get a free pass.

The point is that while Paxson doesn't get a free pass, he's just obeying Uncle Jerry. The decisions are made at the top, and Paxson and the rest of the gang are just there to implement them and take the blame. Well, they should get blamed, but fans should also realize who's actually at fault for the Bulls being stuck in mediocrity.

The other point of the thread was for all the people talking about Boozer to calm down. NOTHING will happen. Jerry is too afraid that Boozer will ask for max dollars next summer, and if he lets Boozer walk (cause there's no way Jerry's giving him max dollars) the fans might actually realize what is going on and start giving it the treatment it actually deserves - stop going to games, stop following the team, stop buying crap that puts cash in his pockets.

 

[reignman]

I don't want to give a quick answer to that myself, but what if Marc Cuban owned the Bulls in the big market of Chicago? Would they do better?

 

[clonetrooper264]

reignman wrote:

I don't want to give a quick answer to that myself, but what if Marc Cuban owned the Bulls in the big market of Chicago? Would they do better?

I am very very VERY tempted to say yes...but of course, I could never know for sure.

 

[dunkside.com]

reignman wrote:

I don't want to give a quick answer to that myself, but what if Marc Cuban owned the Bulls in the big market of Chicago? Would they do better?

there's no guarantee they'd do better.
but for sure they'd try harder to win a title.

 

[houheffna]

Who did you want the Bulls to spend money on the last 10 years?

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

Who did you want the Bulls to spend money on the last 10 years?

Why would I want to debate this with you, Sam Smith ?
You'll side with your employer and the reasons you'll give for trades that didn't happen (Gasol, Kobe for example) are the same that come from the Bulls front office - the same crap full of excuses meant to justify their actions - or inactions, to be more accurate.

There's is absolutely no way that you can fail trading for a major FA for 10 years in a row unless you aren't really trying, just pretending.

And this is what the Bulls are doing: PRETENDING to try to get FAs.

They probably make a weak offer and/or haggle over some irrelevant aspect of the trade till the other team gets tired and tells them to go f**k themselves. Then they can claim the other team asked for too much or refused the trade. And as long as the fans are buying it (hook, line and sinker and then they ask for more) and keep spending their money on the Bulls, they'll keep doing it and the profits will stay huge, just like Uncle Jerry likes it.

You have to either not want to see, or be blind or dumb not to realize that stars and superstars are traded every year, yet none of them to the Bulls.

So don't give me that crap.
Are you telling me that in the past 10 years there was no player worth spending money on ?
I suppose you're about to tell me how Lebron isn't worth more than the MLE ...

 

[Hendu0520]

dunkside.com wrote:

houheffna wrote:

Who did you want the Bulls to spend money on the last 10 years?

Why would I want to debate this with you, Sam Smith ?
You'll side with your employer and the reasons you'll give for trades that didn't happen (Gasol, Kobe for example) are the same that come from the Bulls front office - the same crap full of excuses meant to justify their actions - or inactions, to be more accurate.

There's is absolutely no way that you can fail trading for a major FA for 10 years in a row unless you aren't really trying, just pretending.

And this is what the Bulls are doing: PRETENDING to try to get FAs.

They probably make a weak offer and/or haggle over some irrelevant aspect of the trade till the other team gets tired and tells them to go f**k themselves. Then they can claim the other team asked for too much or refused the trade. And as long as the fans are buying it (hook, line and sinker and then they ask for more) and keep spending their money on the Bulls, they'll keep doing it and the profits will stay huge, just like Uncle Jerry likes it.

You have to either not want to see, or be blind or dumb not to realize that stars and superstars are traded every year, yet none of them to the Bulls.

So don't give me that crap.
Are you telling me that in the past 10 years there was no player worth spending money on ?
I suppose you're about to tell me how Lebron isn't worth more than the MLE ...

Great post dunkside, I read Jordan Rules a while ago and was aware of all of the financial crap Reinsdorf played with Pippen and Jordan. Really Reinsdorf Jordan wasn't worth 30 million? Only a fool of a man would say that, what a joke. Jordan was estimated at making the NBA, not just the Bulls but the entire league about 200 million a year alone his last 2 years in the league. I think it was probably more, that is hard to estimate. But he was definately worth more than a measley 30 million.

In the last 10 years I would have liked to sign Pippen, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Kobe, Pau Gasol. Or all of the possibilities that could have come up that we don't know about. Why didn't the Bulls get involved a few years back when Joe Johnson was being shopped by Phoenix? What about when Ray Allen went to Seattle? Also not to mention L.A. seems to be able to sign free agents all of the time, New York would if they ever had cap money, but for some reason no player wants to come to Chicago. That's ridiculous. 3rd Largest market, 3rd greatest franchise in the history of the NBA so there are some reasons for people to want to come here. JR always acts like poor Chicago no one wants to come here. We traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. We got Noah and Tyrus for Curry and nothing for Chandler. Then we signed Ben Wallace which is Reinsdorf's only great free agent signing ever. wow. I have no doubt that we will not gett Boozer, Bosh or Amare so let's go Tyrus.

 

[houheffna]

In the last 10 years I would have liked to sign Pippen, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Kobe, Pau Gasol. Or all of the possibilities that could have come up that we don't know about. Why didn't the Bulls get involved a few years back when Joe Johnson was being shopped by Phoenix? What about when Ray Allen went to Seattle? Also not to mention L.A. seems to be able to sign free agents all of the time, New York would if they ever had cap money, but for some reason no player wants to come to Chicago. That's ridiculous. 3rd Largest market, 3rd greatest franchise in the history of the NBA so there are some reasons for people to want to come here. JR always acts like poor Chicago no one wants to come here. We traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. We got Noah and Tyrus for Curry and nothing for Chandler. Then we signed Ben Wallace which is Reinsdorf's only great free agent signing ever. wow. I have no doubt that we will not gett Boozer, Bosh or Amare so let's go Tyrus.

What FA has the Lakers signed in the last 10 years? Pippen, they did a sign and trade, getting expendable players in return, Pippen would go quickly from being the most underpaid to one of the most overpaid players in the league. Bulls gave away a dumb contract for a player past his prime, boohoo. They freed up cap room so that they could go after Grant, McGrady and Duncan when they were all available at the same time. Duncan dropped early so the Bulls focused on the same players that Orlando focused on. Grant committed to Orlando so the Bulls pulled out all the stops and pursued McGrady. They practically embarrassed themselves. Krause and Elton Brand took him all over the city, Cubs game, Oprah, everything. Of course according to Dunkside, everybody was in on the conspiracy to make it SEEM like they were pursuing McGrady, so the joke was on the fans....right.

He explained why he didn't get Gasol, I am sure dunkside will read that article by 2030, since it took him 20 years damn near to read Jordan Rules. I have explained Kobe, who at the press conference for his signing with the Lakers, talked of the third team that really impressed him with a surprise offer. Three teams went after the best player in the league. The Lakers, Clippers, and the Chicago Bulls. They gave an honest and impressive presentation to Kobe that he didn't forget, that is why he bought Chicago's name up when he was pissed at the Lakers. Why didn't he say another team? Garnett is what I believe broke Paxson's will to do the job. He felt that he offered superior deals (at the time) to Minnesota for Garnett and a "buddy deal" between two teammates is what overruled his aggressive offerings. The fact is, Paxson didn't have a young, potential all-star frontcourt player like Al Jefferson on their team. So your frustration is understandable, but that is the way things go. They pursued the players who were franchise level players trying to improve.

 

[jsain360]

"* major trades are NOT done (unless they save the Bulls some money). The Bulls CLAIM they work on trades, but every single f**king time there is some reason why they don't make the trade. There are always excuses. ALWAYS. The other team balked, the other team demanded too much, the dog ate the Bulls scouting report on the player etc"

They'll make a trade as long as Kirk Hinrich's name isn't on the table

 

[jsain360]

If the Bulls would have trade for Gasol, they would've given up Deng and the "beloved" Ben Gordon, just like this is a one and done team, a core of Gasol,Hinrich,and Noc would've made me vomit, that core only screams good enough to be an 8th seed, if that

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

What FA has the Lakers signed in the last 10 years?

i think for a while they didn't need to get a major FA (and didn't have the cap to do it) cause they had a guy, pretty decent, shaq something .... i seem to forget his name.
which they got as a FA in 1996, 13 yrs ago.

houheffna wrote:

Duncan dropped early

why did he ?
yeah, i know, he loved SA.
but maybe if krause didn't have the reputation of being an asshole and reinsdorf didn't have a reputation of a cheap bastard who doesn't care about winning, duncan would have considered the bulls


houheffna wrote:

They practically embarrassed themselves. Krause and Elton Brand took him all over the city, Cubs game, Oprah, everything.

ooooh, poor krause, he embarrassed himself.
well, he already embarrassed himself by chasing jordan and phil jackson out of town.
there wasn't any reputation for him to ruin.

houheffna wrote:

Of course according to Dunkside, everybody was in on the conspiracy to make it SEEM like they were pursuing McGrady, so the joke was on the fans....right.

krause could have sucked mcgrady's d**k, but if he offered something ridiculous, as he's been known to do, of course mcgrady refused. and i'm pretty sure krause said something like "for a young unproven player we can't offer the max. he should be happy we give him the playing time and play for 5 min/season". and unless i can see something from mcgrady's agent saying the bulls offered the max, i won't believe they did.

houheffna wrote:

He explained why he didn't get Gasol

excuses. as i said above, that's all the bulls offer the fans, excuses.

houheffna wrote:

I have explained Kobe

more excuses ?
this time not even from reinsdorf or the GM but from an apologist.

houheffna wrote:

Garnett is what I believe broke Paxson's will to do the job.

oh, look: even more excuses.

poor paxson. i'm weeping for him as i type.
he's paid millions per season and his job is sometimes difficult and frustrating.
i wouldn't even consider a job paid with millions of dollars if i would be required to actually work.


houheffna wrote:

I have explained Kobe, who at the press conference for his signing with the Lakers, talked of the third team that really impressed him with a surprise offer. Three teams went after the best player in the league. The Lakers, Clippers, and the Chicago Bulls. They gave an honest and impressive presentation to Kobe that he didn't forget, that is why he bought Chicago's name up when he was pissed at the Lakers. Why didn't he say another team?

how about we give the bulls a prize for that ... they seem to be the best at finishing second when trying to get a FA. even if they did try "for real" to get all those FAs, if they didn't manage to land a superstar in 10 years while being the most profitable team and playing in the 3rd largest market, then the level of incompetence if off the charts.

houheffna wrote:

I am sure dunkside will read that article by 2030, since it took him 20 years damn near to read Jordan Rules.

You'd be surprised to learn that the one and only thing that's missing in a country ruled by a communist dictator are the NBA related books. And that later, after communism fell, it wasn't like there was a switch to "turn democracy on" which also had the side effect of making all american products suddenly available. It was a damn long process which is still ongoing and for a long time you still couldn't find most of the things you would find at every corner in the US and Western Europe. You might also be surprised to learn that there still are companies that don't accept payments by card from countries in Eastern Europe (because there are some dipshits that defraud companies using stolen credit card information), so is not that easy to buy stuff even if you want to and have the means to do it.

And don't you fuckin lecture me just because you were lucky enough to be born in a country that offers you so many opportunities (which you take for granted). Shit like this makes it really hard for me to refrain from just telling you to go **** yourself instead of answering your post point by point.

And speaking of democracies and liberty of expression, it's so sad to see someone who has that liberty and always had it wasting it and choosing to instead kiss the ass of one boss or another. In fact, you might have enjoyed communism, since there you were basically required to praise the supreme leader.

 

[dunkside.com]

jsain360 wrote:

"* major trades are NOT done (unless they save the Bulls some money). The Bulls CLAIM they work on trades, but every single f**king time there is some reason why they don't make the trade. There are always excuses. ALWAYS. The other team balked, the other team demanded too much, the dog ate the Bulls scouting report on the player etc"

They'll make a trade as long as Kirk Hinrich's name isn't on the table

or deng's

jsain360 wrote:

If the Bulls would have trade for Gasol, they would've given up Deng and the "beloved" Ben Gordon, just like this is a one and done team, a core of Gasol,Hinrich,and Noc would've made me vomit, that core only screams good enough to be an 8th seed, if that

forget what you're being told (by the bulls) or by someone in the media who quotes "unidentified/anonymous sources". unidentified/anonymous sources = i made that shit up but you can't prove it.

if the lakers could get him for a pile of crap with a cherry on top, LOGIC says the grizzlies would have settled for far less than deng + gordon.

but again, the bulls CLAIM the other team asked for too much. read my first post again. that's what i've been saying.

and if you ignore all the rumors and the stuff the bulls say and just look at the facts, the fact is they didn't trade for any star/superstar in 10+ years. they traded AWAY players for picks and expirings.

again, take JUST THE FACTS.

if everyone else but you (and the clippers - oh, sorry. even the clippers traded for elton brand) can trade for stars and superstars than you're either not trying, or doing a horrible job. and if the gm was doing a horrible job, reinsdorf should have fired him. which he didn't. which means reinsdorf agrees with what the gm does, which means they're doing it on purpose. it's logic. it's obvious. it's elementary ... as long as you have a functioning brain.

 

[houheffna]

And speaking of democracies and liberty of expression, it's so sad to see someone who has that liberty and always had it wasting it and choosing to instead kiss the ass of one boss or another. In fact, you might have enjoyed communism, since there you were basically required to praise the supreme leader.

had no idea you were from another country...I don't like communism, I am a black man, raised by sharecroppers, know what that is? Its hilarious that people can be sarcastic with me, but I cannot with them. You are obviously misled over there where you are about how these things work over here. We live in a capitalist society over here. Which means a man can run his business any way he sees fit within the confines of the law and make money which is what you do over here in the land of capitalism. I have laid out all of the times the Bulls have pursued opportunities to better themselves, over here, where there is such a freedom of choice, people make choices and those affected deal with them. So since you are 20 years behind let me help you. Jordan, Pippen, Jackson, Krause, all moved on with their lives, I suggest you do the same.

And don't you fuckin lecture me just because you were lucky enough to be born in a country that offers you so many opportunities (which you take for granted). Shit like this makes it really hard for me to refrain from just telling you to go **** yourself instead of answering your post point by point.

I would rather you have just said "go **** yourself". At least that makes sense. You don't know what I take for granted because you don't know me. Again, I am a black man who knows what black people have been through right here in this country. And certain issues we still deal with, grass is always greener on the other side. I have a feeling that if you had read a book called "St. Jerry of Berto" it wouldn't have changed your mind. My advice to you is get a new hobby, hating Reinsdorf is bad for your health. I asked you one question which you never answered, someone else gave their opinion, and I responded to that.



So I will try again, what would you have done differently? Pray tell?

Do you accept mail? In the spirit of goodwill I can mail you a book. The first one I would mail is by Paul Sheppard, its called "Build a Bridge, and Get Over It!"

 

[Shakes]

The best way to make money is to win championships. JR is no chump, he knows that even Jordan can't be milked forever. The whole idea that JR is deliberately putting out a poor product because it'll make him more money is silly: this is the guy who knows first hand how much money you can rake in if you win the championship.

 

[Diddy1122]

Shakes wrote:

The best way to make money is to win championships. JR is no chump, he knows that even Jordan can't be milked forever. The whole idea that JR is deliberately putting out a poor product because it'll make him more money is silly: this is the guy who knows first hand how much money you can rake in if you win the championship.

I don't think anyone is saying that JR is putting out a poor product just to make money, but he's certainly not doing anything to bring a championship back to Chicago. It's blatantly obvious that the guy could give 2 shits about basketball & he sees the Bulls as an investment only. As long as the UC is filled 41 x's out of the year, I don't think JR will be breaking his back to try & get the O'Brien Trophy back. Now the White Sox, that's a different story because he actually loves & follows the game of baseball.