The Near-Sightedness Of This Board (Howard/Heat)

[ZAN]

People are so near-sighted it's not even funny.

Why did we lose to Miami? Because they doubled D-Rose to the point where he couldn't get into a consistent rythym.

That's going to be ALL we see next season unless we get somebody that can hammer it down in the lane. Indiana open a can of worms. Teams were afraid to double Rose every time down the floor this season. They didn't want to play 3 on 2 after Rose dumped it off. Well...when worse came to worst, the Pacers KNEW they couldn't beat us unless they took the ball out of Rose's hands. If Indiana doesn't grow the cajones to double Rose every play, Miami may not have gotten a blueprint handed to them on a silver platter of how to beat the Bulls, and we could be playing Game 2 of the NBA Finals in Chicago as I type this thread.

Tell me what would have happened during the Miami series if we would have been able to throw the ball to the free player at the top of the key and had the 3-on-2 with Dwight Howard and another forward being split by 1 defender. Good fucking night, Miami. That's what would have happened.

Keep Taj? Why? Because he's pure effort? Because he dunked over Wade? Yes, he's solid. He's an excellent role player. But his stock is as high as it will EVER be coming off these playoffs where he played as well as Boozer (who also had a decent series). You trade Noah and Taj and your first. Hell it's pick 27, so who cares. Marshon Brooks is not our savior. Our two guard situation is going to be taken care of in FA, not through the rookie draft.

If you have

Rose
Hamilton (chances are that's the most we'd afford if we traded for Howard)
Deng
Boozer
Howard

with a bench of

Watson(*)
Brewer(*)
Asik(*)
Korver(*)

*-1 will be needed to swing a deal + open cap for Rip
and you go out and sign a defensive minded bench PF such as Chris Wilcox...hell maybe Carl Landry or Chuck Hayes decides to take a lesser role/money to play on the Bulls and have a legit chance at a ring...

We'd still be 10 deep, with a very VERY lockdown 2nd tier, and one HELL of a dangerous starting 5...

You know how hard it would be to double up Rose with Rip Hamilton running off of baseline screens. Not to mention, to guard Rip Hamilton on the baseline/wing, you're going to need ABSOLUTELY PERFECT post defense hedging on Rip...which frees up the lob game to D-Howard...If they go ahead and full on switch the post to Rip as he goes off the Howard baseline screen, you got your opponents starting shooting guard guarding Dwight Howard...not to mention, what the hell do you do with Rose as he crosses the time line:

1. You can't double him because you're chasing Rip Hamilton all over the damn place
2. If you double Rose, what team is going to be capable of defending a 3 on 2 of Luol with the ball, and a combo of Howard and Boozer being guarded by one man, with Rip Hamilton still moving around the wing to shake his man?
3. If you do double him, you got Rip (one of the best spot shooters in the league) coming off a baseline screen set by D-Howard, which is going to net you an open wing jumper OR a mismatch of Dwight pick and pinning the opponents SG for a lob and lay-in/dunk.

All you guys saying keep Taj and Noah and the 27th pick over Howard are freaking crazy. Taj is replaceable in the form of a bench PF like Chris Wilcox (defense-first). A guy like Wilcox won't give you the scoring...but Taj's scoring better be eaten up by adding a Howard and one of the lower-tiered SGs that can be had this off-season...Hamilton being one of the more accessible.

Not to mention, what happens if we keep Noah and Taj for the next 5, 6 years? Maybe we knock out Miami in the playoffs once, MAYBE (whether it be due to missing D-Wade or Bosh or LeBron)...but this team as-is, can NOT beat the Miami Heat unless we enforce the paint. We may have the best player on the floor, in Derrick Rose...but the rest of our scoring isn't enough...

Especially considering that many vets are going to take MLE's to capture a ring with Miami.

Expect them to net a Morris Peterson or Chuck Hayes at the minimum...SOMEONE that increases their depth past the 7 (8 tops) they played vs. us, will sign for nothing and make them only better.

 

[97Bulls]

People are so near-sighted it's not even funny.

Why did we lose to Miami? Because they doubled D-Rose to the point where he couldn't get into a consistent rythym.

That's going to be ALL we see next season unless we get somebody that can hammer it down in the lane. Indiana open a can of worms. Teams were afraid to double Rose every time down the floor this season. They didn't want to play 3 on 2 after Rose dumped it off. Well...when worse came to worst, the Pacers KNEW they couldn't beat us unless they took the ball out of Rose's hands. If Indiana doesn't grow the cajones to double Rose every play, Miami may not have gotten a blueprint handed to them on a silver platter of how to beat the Bulls, and we could be playing Game 2 of the NBA Finals in Chicago as I type this thread.

Tell me what would have happened during the Miami series if we would have been able to throw the ball to the free player at the top of the key and had the 3-on-2 with Dwight Howard and another forward being split by 1 defender. Good fucking night, Miami. That's what would have happened.

Keep Taj? Why? Because he's pure effort? Because he dunked over Wade? Yes, he's solid. He's an excellent role player. But his stock is as high as it will EVER be coming off these playoffs where he played as well as Boozer (who also had a decent series). You trade Noah and Taj and your first. Hell it's pick 27, so who cares. Marshon Brooks is not our savior. Our two guard situation is going to be taken care of in FA, not through the rookie draft.

If you have

Rose
Hamilton (chances are that's the most we'd afford if we traded for Howard)
Deng
Boozer
Howard

with a bench of

Watson(*)
Brewer(*)
Asik(*)
Korver(*)

*-1 will be needed to swing a deal + open cap for Rip
and you go out and sign a defensive minded bench PF such as Chris Wilcox...hell maybe Carl Landry or Chuck Hayes decides to take a lesser role/money to play on the Bulls and have a legit chance at a ring...

We'd still be 10 deep, with a very VERY lockdown 2nd tier, and one HELL of a dangerous starting 5...

You know how hard it would be to double up Rose with Rip Hamilton running off of baseline screens. Not to mention, to guard Rip Hamilton on the baseline/wing, you're going to need ABSOLUTELY PERFECT post defense hedging on Rip...which frees up the lob game to D-Howard...If they go ahead and full on switch the post to Rip as he goes off the Howard baseline screen, you got your opponents starting shooting guard guarding Dwight Howard...not to mention, what the hell do you do with Rose as he crosses the time line:

1. You can't double him because you're chasing Rip Hamilton all over the damn place
2. If you double Rose, what team is going to be capable of defending a 3 on 2 of Luol with the ball, and a combo of Howard and Boozer being guarded by one man, with Rip Hamilton still moving around the wing to shake his man?
3. If you do double him, you got Rip (one of the best spot shooters in the league) coming off a baseline screen set by D-Howard, which is going to net you an open wing jumper OR a mismatch of Dwight pick and pinning the opponents SG for a lob and lay-in/dunk.

All you guys saying keep Taj and Noah and the 27th pick over Howard are freaking crazy. Taj is replaceable in the form of a bench PF like Chris Wilcox (defense-first). A guy like Wilcox won't give you the scoring...but Taj's scoring better be eaten up by adding a Howard and one of the lower-tiered SGs that can be had this off-season...Hamilton being one of the more accessible.

Not to mention, what happens if we keep Noah and Taj for the next 5, 6 years? Maybe we knock out Miami in the playoffs once, MAYBE (whether it be due to missing D-Wade or Bosh or LeBron)...but this team as-is, can NOT beat the Miami Heat unless we enforce the paint. We may have the best player on the floor, in Derrick Rose...but the rest of our scoring isn't enough...

Especially considering that many vets are going to take MLE's to capture a ring with Miami.

Expect them to net a Morris Peterson or Chuck Hayes at the minimum...SOMEONE that increases their depth past the 7 (8 tops) they played vs. us, will sign for nothing and make them only better.

I like where your going with this. But we are talking about bulls mgmnt. They're just not creative enough to get howard. Hell they should've got hamilton thiis year.

 

[Diddy1122]

I'm just wondering with no CBA a month from now, how this would even be possible. It's not even possible under the current CBA. Howard makes approx. $18mill next year, Rip is making $12.5, & all you are giving up in that trade is $11mill in total salary. Even with the $5 or $6mill under the cap, that's nearly double the amount of salary taken back. That's not near-sightedness, it's simple math.

 

[97Bulls]

I'm just wondering with no CBA a month from now, how this would even be possible. It's not even possible under the current CBA. Howard makes approx. $18mill next year, Rip is making $12.5, & all you are giving up in that trade is $11mill in total salary. Even with the $5 or $6mill under the cap, that's nearly double the amount of salary taken back. That's not near-sightedness, it's simple math.

Exactly. The bulls can get it done, but they'd need to get real creative. They'd need to get another team involved. The mgnt just doesn't think outside the box

 

[houheffna]

Exactly. The bulls can get it done, but they'd need to get real creative. They'd need to get another team involved. The mgnt just doesn't think outside the box

Based....on.....what? The Bulls have done nothing BUT think outside the box...they have gone after every major player damn near over the last 5 years from Kobe to Lebron and everybody in between. The Bulls showed me years ago they think outside the box...that is not the worry.

And has anybody even considered that Howard may NOT want to come here?

 

[Adog06]

Based....on.....what? The Bulls have done nothing BUT think outside the box...they have gone after every major player damn near over the last 5 years from Kobe to Lebron and everybody in between. The Bulls showed me years ago they think outside the box...that is not the worry.

And has anybody even considered that Howard may NOT want to come here?

I really cant see him objecting to it with Rose being a friend of his. Plus its a big market, he would make more money here, and Championships. Cant see why he wouldn't, especially since Rose has stepped up his game tremendously to the point where big name players are going to want to come here. I mean he is the MVP and did so at 22 years of age. But we'll see what the Bulls can do. They would have to talk directly to Howard and convince him if that was the case ya know.

 

[houheffna]

I really cant see him objecting to it with Rose being a friend of his. Plus its a big market, he would make more money here, and Championships. Cant see why he wouldn't, especially since Rose has stepped up his game tremendously to the point where big name players are going to want to come here. I mean he is the MVP and did so at 22 years of age. But we'll see what the Bulls can do. They would have to talk directly to Howard and convince him if that was the case ya know.

Well, I hope he really, really wants to come to Chicago...like Kobe in 2007 bad...lol

 

[Adog06]

Well, I hope he really, really wants to come to Chicago...like Kobe in 2007 bad...lol

Same here lol. But really think about it, why wouldnt he want to come here with the MVP and the COY on the a big market franchise. I think this could happen.

 

[Crystallas]

Howard has made endless comments about wanting to stay in Orlando just recently. He doesn't want to follow the other #1 picks in franchise history, and skip out at his first chance.

 

[Adog06]

Howard has made endless comments about wanting to stay in Orlando just recently. He doesn't want to follow the other #1 picks in franchise history, and skip out at his first chance.

Didnt Lebron say that we would prefer to stay in Cleveland and sports writers were saying more than likely staying there? I really do not believe what these guys say especially after last summers fiasco.

 

[Crystallas]

Didnt Lebron say that we would prefer to stay in Cleveland and sports writers were saying more than likely staying there? I really do not believe what these guys say especially after last summers fiasco.

I think BECAUSE of LeBrons mess, we are likely getting an honest answer from Howard. But you're right, we never know.

I'm more in the boat of thought, that I don't want to speculate ANYTHING until there is at least some kind of hint from Dwight that he wants to be a Bull.

 

[Adog06]

I think BECAUSE of LeBrons mess, we are likely getting an honest answer from Howard. But you're right, we never know.

I'm more in the boat of thought, that I don't want to speculate ANYTHING until there is at least some kind of hint from Dwight that he wants to be a Bull.

True, i think as time goes on i think we might. Keeping my fingers crossed of course lol.

 

[Glide2keva]

And the pipe dream continues

 

[ZAN]

I'm not pipe-dreaming.

Truthfully, do I think we can/will get Howard? No.

Do I think that if Orlando wants Joakim + Taj + 27th pick + 2012 first that we should do it? In a heartbeat.

I'm just saying that a dominant big man is a bigger pressure release on Derrick than an streaky SG like JR Smith or trading up to get Marshon Brooks. People act like having Joakim and Taj beats having Dwight Howard.

The fact of the matter is that there is NO team that would be capable of getting out and running against the Bulls with Derrick Rose AND STILL be able to D up our half court game if we had Boozer and Dwight Howard on the low block.

Derrick forced so many transition 1-on-2 attempts against the Heat, because he knew that if he slowed it down and let the Heat set up, we had nothing reliable...

All else being said, are we getting Dwight? No...probably not. But the basketball stupid in this board is coming out on the Howard/How to beat the Heat topic.

 

[clonetrooper264]

And the pipe dream continues

Well I think us getting an all star SG is also a pipe dream. I guess I shouldn't bother with expecting the Bulls to do anything then and prepare for losing to the Heat in the ECF for the next 5 years.

 

[B18]

Well I think us getting an all star SG is also a pipe dream. I guess I shouldn't bother with expecting the Bulls to do anything then and prepare for losing to the Heat in the ECF for the next 5 years.

If the bulls cant pull something nice together during the offseason I wouldn't even count on the bulls getting to the ECF much in the next 5 years.

 

[clonetrooper264]

If the bulls cant pull something nice together during the offseason I wouldn't even count on the bulls getting to the ECF much in the next 5 years.

Oh lovely, it gets worse...