The Small Forward Position Going Into Next Year

[ryguy24]

Obviously, alot depends on the Gordon situation. If Gordon leaves, then Salmons slides to the 2 and we are left with Deng/Timmy. If Gordon stays, then we likely have Kirk gone with Salmons backing up the 2 and 3. However, Luol and Salmons both seem to be somewhat prone to injury, so what would you prefer to see done this offseason?

Stick it out with who we have and maybe test out Tyrus there in spot minutes?
Emphasize the 3 spot at pick 16 (or maybe a Sam Young type at 26)?
Try to sign an average 3 on the market to give some depth?

It's weird because on one end i'm not comfortable with our current depth (injury possibilities), but on the other end, you don't want to willingly create another log jam at the spot if Deng and Salmons both play significant minutes next year. If Luol gets injured again next year or has to have lengthy surgery, I don't think we can be rolling Salmons out there for 42 a night like it seems like we have been.

 

[Rose1]

The only way I suggest draft a Small forward with the 16th pick, Gar Foreman will have to sign Carlos Boozer this off-season. It's no way I'll waste that pick on a 3 when are weakness is a true 5. If BJ Mullens is available, I'm not taking James Johnson into account. Same rules apply for T-Will. Now for some reason I think Ausin Daye will still be on the board come the 26th pick. I'll draft him in a heart beat, but he's a project.

PG: Rose, Hinrich
SG: Gordon, Salmons
SF: Salmons, Deng, Daye
PF: Boozer, Ty.Thomas
C: Noah, Mullens

#Early-on in Daye career you will notice him being a stationary high percentage shooter ala Okur, Nowitzki, and T-Prince.

#Unlike Ty.Thomas, Boozer will make a high post and low post shot 9 times out of 10 if left open. Last, Boozer has an array of moves down low.

 

[dougthonus]

I think you have to find a low end SF if you lose Gordon. In the draft I'd just take the best player available regardless of position played. I wouldn't shy away from SF, but I wouldn't go out of my way by any stretch.

I think you start looking at LLE guys if you can't bring back Gordon. If you do bring back Gordon then I think you're set at SF with Deng/Salmons. You still probably have to bring in another guard if you move Hinrich in this scenario, but you're probably looking for a 1/2 more than a 2/3.

 

[Bullsman24]

i don't think salmons is injury prone, this is the only injury he's really had that's limited him, but now he's getting labeled that way even though it's just now

 

[Rose1]

You have to take into account the guy is 30. I don't know many 31 year olds that will be able to produce now.

 

[AirP]

Honestly... if we had Luol Deng this series we might be up 3 games to 1 with no overtime games. Rebounding.... which has been killing us is something that Deng does very well for his position, not to mention his defense and his usually good midrange shot. *If Boston had KG they would have swept us, no doubt in my mind... they exectute too well as it is and throw in a dominate PF like KG and it's over.

Right now... Chicago's overall talent minus Deng is greater then Boston's talent minus KG, the difference has been exection of the offense and rebounding as a team.

 

[AirP]

Rose1 wrote:

You have to take into account the guy is 30. I don't know many 31 year olds that will be able to produce now.

If you're talking about Salmons, the thing he's got going for him is that he hasn't logged a lot of minutes on the court like most do by 30, so in that respect he may have a decent amount of good years left in him. Salmon's isn't an especially fast player, he's a pretty smart offensive player that has a pretty good shot even with a man in his face. He's got atleast 3 more solid years in him and after that he should be an excellent scorer off the bench in limited time.

 

[dougthonus]

Right now... Chicago's overall talent minus Deng is greater then Boston's talent minus KG, the difference has been exection of the offense and rebounding as a team.

I wonder about that. I'd take Rondo, Allen, and Pierce over Rose, Gordon, and Salmons. In this series Davis, Perkins, and Moore have outplayed Tyrus, Noah, and Miller

We have an edge in Hinrich over House/Marbury. I don't think I'd look at what's left of our teams though and say we've got better talent. We probably should be winning the front court matchup but it hasn't really worked out that way. I think their backcourt/wings are better than ours with the exception of the fact that they're only three deep and we're four deep.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

Right now... Chicago's overall talent minus Deng is greater then Boston's talent minus KG, the difference has been exection of the offense and rebounding as a team.

I wonder about that. I'd take Rondo, Allen, and Pierce over Rose, Gordon, and Salmons. In this series Davis, Perkins, and Moore have outplayed Tyrus, Noah, and Miller

We have an edge in Hinrich over House/Marbury. I don't think I'd look at what's left of our teams though and say we've got better talent. We probably should be winning the front court matchup but it hasn't really worked out that way. I think their backcourt/wings are better than ours with the exception of the fact that they're only three deep and we're four deep.

Outplayed because of execution or by talent? The Boston offense looks pretty damn clean cut compared to Chicago's cluster crap. It's gotten their bigs a bunch of easy baskets and open looks.

I really, really, really think our coaching is holding back our players, there's no reason why Rose doesn't continue to attack more other then he's following the game plan. I just think some coaches understand special players and some ex players who weren't special rely more about out thinking the other team.

 

[Morten Jensen]

The SF position is tricky. A 100% healthy Luol could make a strong case to be a starter, but even at full strenght, he doesn't offer the versatility of Salmons. Deng is the better defender and rebounder, but the floor is extremely different with Salmons out there being able to stretch the floor.

I'm not opposed to go on a SF hunt, if things goes south with Luol. Salmons is pushing 30, so at some point we will need a new one. Might as well find someone and try to embed them into our structure. But that's probably 2 years away, IMO.

Looking forward, I think there needs to be certain criterias for that position. He needs to be a strong shooter and a decent defender. I wouldn't necessarily want huge scoring from him, but I would like someone who could put up an efficient 16-18 a game.

 

[??? ??????]

Assuming we re-sign Ben Gordon (really, how can we not at this point?), then it all comes down to whether we make a trade or not.

If we bring in a guy like Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, or Chris Bosh, I would look to sign a veteran small forward for the MLE preferably Artest, maybe Lamar Odom or Shawn Marion, and go for the championship next year.

If not, then I would just try to get Luol Deng back on track. Maybe trade John Salmons and package him with a draft pick if that's what it takes to create capspace to re-sign Gordon.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Luol Deng is 24 and he will be looking to prove doubters wrong. He will hopefully be fully healthy and playing 30+ minutes a game. Having Timmy and Tyrus playing spot up minutes is fine with me.

 

[AirP]

??? ?????? wrote:

Assuming we re-sign Ben Gordon (really, how can we not at this point?)

Play better defense and rebound better as a team?

 

[dougthonus]

Assuming we re-sign Ben Gordon (really, how can we not at this point?)

I would assume we won't resign him.

His contract will still put us in the luxury tax, and we're still a 41 team that's maybe / maybe not going to win a playoff series against a Boston team missing Garnett and Powe. Not that missing Powe would normally be a big deal, but their front court is now ridiculously thin.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

Assuming we re-sign Ben Gordon (really, how can we not at this point?)

I would assume we won't resign him.

His contract will still put us in the luxury tax, and we're still a 41 team that's maybe / maybe not going to win a playoff series against a Boston team missing Garnett and Powe. Not that missing Powe would normally be a big deal, but their front court is now ridiculously thin.

I don't JR allows Paxson to resign Ben Gordon while going into the Luxury Tax, but I think JR will go into the Luxury Tax to S&T Gordon in a package to upgrade a starting position for this team. Then again, we have till the end of next season to get out of the Luxury Tax area, it doesn't have to be below it by game 1, just by game 82. Hell, if Paxson had to move Miller's 13 million expiring for someone say... 10 million but for 2 or more years he could do it to stay under the Luxury Tax.

This team just needs to define itself this summer, build around Derrick Rose is the best way and if we can get a bigtime big man.... it has to be done by any means minus Rose as possible.

 

[dougthonus]

I don't JR allows Paxson to resign Ben Gordon while going into the Luxury Tax, but I think JR will go into the Luxury Tax to S&T Gordon in a package to upgrade a starting position for this team. Then again, we have till the end of next season to get out of the Luxury Tax area, it doesn't have to be below it by game 1, just by game 82. Hell, if Paxson had to move Miller's 13 million expiring for someone say... 10 million but for 2 or more years he could do it to stay under the Luxury Tax.

There are several problems with this theory:
1) If you are going to go into the luxury tax, then doesn't it make a lot more sense to do so for Ben Gordon than in a S&T? In a S&T you're not likely to get back someone better than Gordon. No one is likely to trade big for small for Gordon or to give us something better than Gordon for Gordon. Usually S&Ts give back pretty mediocre talent back to the team moving the talent.

2) While in theory we could get out from under the tax later, in this economic climate that's going to be awfully difficult. I think you're going to have to give up quite a bit in assets in order to get out from under the luxury tax. The one thing you may be able to do is move Jerome James to a team if his contract is covered by insurance and take back less salary. That team saves money, while you also save money by getting under the tax.

This team just needs to define itself this summer, build around Derrick Rose is the best way and if we can get a bigtime big man.... it has to be done by any means minus Rose as possible.

I agree with this completely. It will be extremely difficult to get the right big man though.

 

[Ralphb07]

Regardless if we sign Gordon or not Deng should be our SF. It all comes down to is Salmons our starting SG or is he the back up to Gordon and Deng.

When healthy which I think will be the case next season Deng's brings a lot to this team. He can score but in a team concept, rebounds well and plays good defense.

I hope we keep Gordon and even if we do we should draft a Terrance Williams type because he can play multiple positions and we could use the depth.

The offseason should be sign Gordon and trade Kirk and Tyrus to Utah for Carlos Boozer and go with

C-Noah
F-Boozer
F-Deng
G-Gordon
G-Rose

With Miller,Salmons and the two draft picks to fill the roster out

 

[dougthonus]

Regardless if we sign Gordon or not Deng should be our SF. It all comes down to is Salmons our starting SG or is he the back up to Gordon and Deng.

When healthy which I think will be the case next season Deng's brings a lot to this team. He can score but in a team concept, rebounds well and plays good defense.

I believe Deng will be our starting SF, because he can't play anywhere else and has a huge contract. Whether he should or not is another question. He doesn't fit into the system we ran this year at all.

I don't think Deng will ever be successful in a system that expects him to create in isolation a lot like our present system does. We need to figure something out in the summer, or Deng will be in big trouble.

On top of that, counting on Deng seems like an iffy proposition at this point. Maybe he comes back and plays well, but building the team with expectations of what Deng will bring you at SF seems like a plan fraught with danger.

I don't think Utah would accept your Hinrich + Tyrus for Boozer deal. If they would, and the Bulls weren't turned off by Boozer screwing over Jim Paxson, then I would do that deal in a heart beat despite the massive injury risk with Boozer.

Still, the resulting team is over the luxury tax, so that doesn't seem likely to be something we'd do even if either side would do it (which I suspect neither side would).

 

[charity stripe]

Gordon's contract will put the team into luxury tax, but they have until summer of 2010 to get under the tax, because that's when JR would have to pay.

The Chicago Bulls can sign Ben to any number they want, and simply deal with the luxury tax consequences later. Luxury tax is not computed until the end of the season, and the Bulls could always try and unload contract dollars as they go. Hard to imagine the Bulls not retaining Gordon today.

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