This is just stupid

[TSD]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110512/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_demjanjuk



This is really taking it too far. We would all love to think we would take the "Death before dishonor route", you cant know that until you are in that position, no matter what you think you know for sure you would do. Which is why I hate soldiers being tried for killing civilians, you cant know what you would do in their specific situation unless you experienced it yourself.



A Ukranian soldier captured by the germans in 42 is offered probably the choice of rotting to death in a prison camp himself, or being a guard at another as the germans werent exactly fond of eastern europeans "ethnically" either.



All I hear about the Jewish Sonderkomando is how "they were just doing what they had to do to survive" or they had no choice etc. etc. (If you dont know what that is, in most of the nazi death camps, there were jewish "trustees" so to speak who knowingly led fellow jews into the gas chambers, and dumped them in the crematoria for a few extra months of life.) I've never seen those guys prosecuted, and what many of them did in my opinion is even more disgraceful than your run of the mill Nazi guard, who probably had just as much to fear if he refused duty.



How is this really any different? Hes not a jew I guess?

 

[bri]

This guy wasn't just any old guard. He was Ivan The Terrible who was known for being excessively harsh and brutal. He made the conscious choice to act that way so that eliminates any sympathy for him on my part.

 

[TSD]

This guy wasn't just any old guard. He was Ivan The Terrible who was known for being excessively harsh and brutal. He made the conscious choice to act that way so that eliminates any sympathy for him on my part.

and the Sonderkomando are better than him how? They made the conscious decision to kill their own people, killin someone is killin someone, doesn't really matter how you do it, I don't know of a nice way to stick someone in a gas chamber.



That and after almost 70 years, who is really to say what this guy was or was not guilty of. Because of hearsay? I am sure when you are on the receiving end of the third reich anyone that worked those camps was a boogey man, whether they actually were or not.

 

[MassHavoc]

This guy wasn't just any old guard. He was Ivan The Terrible who was known for being excessively harsh and brutal. He made the conscious choice to act that way so that eliminates any sympathy for him on my part.

In the 1980s, Demjanjuk stood trial in Israel after he was accused of being the notoriously brutal guard "Ivan the Terrible" at the Treblinka extermination camp. He was convicted, sentenced to death and then freed when an Israeli court overturned the ruling, saying the evidence showed he was the victim of mistaken identity.



If Israel is going to overturn it, then it must have been true.

 

[bri]

and the Sonderkomando are better than him how? They made the conscious decision to kill their own people, killin someone is killin someone, doesn't really matter how you do it, I don't know of a nice way to stick someone in a gas chamber.



That and after almost 70 years, who is really to say what this guy was or was not guilty of. Because of hearsay? I am sure when you are on the receiving end of the third reich anyone that worked those camps was a boogey man, whether they actually were or not.

There is a difference to me between just "doing your job" if you want to call it that, and choosing to make a horrible situation for the victims more agonizing and torture filled. He got his rocks off on being a cruel heinous bastard.

 

[sth]

There is a difference to me between just "doing your job" if you want to call it that, and choosing to make a horrible situation for the victims more agonizing and torture filled. He got his rocks off on being a cruel heinous bastard.

Yeah I also heard Demanjuk was identified as a guard who was remembered by the prisoners to be extra brutal and harsh. Now some still say the ID card that was a big part of the evidence against him still has flaws. But if this is who he is I have not sympathy. One of professors said he doesn't care if he's old and sick now he deserves no sympathy. I'm sure he didn't show it to elderly people at the camp.

 

[JOVE23]

There is a difference to me between just "doing your job" if you want to call it that, and choosing to make a horrible situation for the victims more agonizing and torture filled. He got his rocks off on being a cruel heinous bastard.

IF he was Ivan the Terrible.

 

[JOVE23]

and the Sonderkomando are better than him how? They made the conscious decision to kill their own people, killin someone is killin someone, doesn't really matter how you do it, I don't know of a nice way to stick someone in a gas chamber.

I'm sure a lot of the Sonderkommando didn't make it to the end of the war. I know of many who did, but I don't know how many of them are still alive.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

He was originally found guilty of being the infamous Ivan the Terrible and sentenced to death in Israel, the ruling was overturned and he was completely exonerated of the charges.



Although present day "experts" are saying that the ID card "appears to be genuine" there has been evidence that has been unearthed stating the contrary. the courts have decided not to allow this evidence to be presented and used.



IF he is honestly guilty, I have no sympathy for him, regardless of his age. But as of now, there is evidence that says he may not be one of the notorious "Watchmenn" innocent till proven guilty.