Trade Debate.

[mountsalami]

There was an interesting debate I watched this morning on MLB TV about the Shields/Myers trade where one guy said it was a stupid trade for KC to make (Brian Kinney) and the other said it was a good one for the Royals (Chris Byrnes). The debate was rather heated in both directions.

The one point that was never brought up that I'd like to make is that Shields would still hold some value to trade for more prospects because of his track record over Myers. If Myers were to just plain bust out, his trade value and years of control are worthless. Injuries aside. A similar situation we saw with Garza. We traded away prospects to get him and got some in return because he's a very good player. Shields holds plenty of value and KC can exercise his 12 million dollar option and trade him by the deadline for a crop of prospects. He could probably reap a similar haul to the one Garza got that the prospects lovers drooled over.

My point is that if the Cubs truely want to strengthen the farm system they can do it while still trying to compete as they move forward. They need to sign much better players in F/A. That would give them a better opportunity to compete at the ML and also get better trade returns if the season requires them to sell. I'm not speaking of signing elite talent. Just not signing the cheap, below average, for flipping, if they can turn the player around for half the season, shitbags. I see no reason why they can't go out and sign three or four players in the 10-15 million dollar range in 2014. The crap we received for Manhole'm and Feldman are not even worth wasting the time to make or even to sign to flip. All it amounts to is busy work that accomplishes nothing. Garbage for garbage.

I hated to see Garza go. They did surprisingly receive quite few prospects in return even though I believe it's mostly garbage. I doubt any of them will be able to replace the talent level of Garza. My hope for the coming offseason is that they try and sign Josh Johnson and Matt Garza for the rotation. Nelson Cruz and Aaron Hill for the everday line-up. This would provide right handed pop the line up needs and you may be able to get Cruz at a discount with the PED scandal surrounding him. Your odds at getting a better trade return are much greater.

All these players are still relatively young and can provide the vetern presence and mix the team needs. This organization has to start somewhere someday at trying to be competitive. There are just too many holes exposed that need filled if they keep progressing as they have been.

The farm is not going to produce them all at the same time nor do I believe they can do it over a three year period. The cheap bastards appear to be dragging this out longer than need be.

 

[Mr. Cub]

I would love to see Garza come back and get signed.

 

[dabears253313]

I would love to see Garza come back and get signed.

Me too.

 

[brett05]

To the south side.

 

[JosMin]

Josh Johnson has been absolutely horrible this year. I'd want no part of him. I've made this point several times before, but somehow I'm also cast as a troll. The Cubs are at the point where they can fill ML roster holes that won't potentially block a key prospect -- centerfield, catcher, starting pitching. If they're able to find value and make sure the players are signed for market value or lower, they could potentially flip those guys for more prospects once their young core gets closer to a call-up.

My ideal situation would be snagging Shin-Soo Choo, Brian McCann, Omar Infante and a starter or two (Ervin Santana and Tim Lincecum would be nice). You'd probably be adding upwards for $50 million in annual salary, but all of those guys are quality players who shouldn't show any signs of regression for a while. The Cubs would be helping themselves two-fold -- giving themselves a chance to bolster the everyday roster and add value long-term by having potential trade chips on reasonable deals.

 

[Jntg4]

Olt can be good if vision problems fixed, at the very least remains a very good glove with good power. Edwards may be the real prize though, but he's still a few years away from pitching in the majors.

If the Cubs choose to go sign guys this off-season, I'm all for it, but I don't want them to do something stupid and sign too many of the wrong types of players (older, declining) or make trades and overpay just the satisfy a fan base growing restless.

Add a few bats and a few arms, overhaul the bullpen, and see where it goes next season. Try to do as much of that as possible with semi-affordable FA's though as opposed to trading minor league talent. And when we still aren't in the playoffs next season, still wouldn't be up in arms about it.

 

[KBIB]

Who in gods name would want Josh Johnson? That raft sailed, got a hole, and sunk two years ago. He is washed up, and considering the haul the Marlins got our of that huge deal during the winter, compared to specifically where the Jays are, in last place among some of the worst teams in the league, I would say the Marlins sold high and got a great return for washed up has beens.

After all the trades, the Cubs have sent themselves up with so much system depth that wasn't even there a year ago. You cannot be anything but impressed and thank ful, imo, that Theo has done the right thing and stuck to his plan instead of bending to the small core group of fanboi's who want him to spend money like Hendry did. Hendry couldn't build a farm system. Theo obviously can.

Ill take this, and couple it with yet another high draft pick, and watch the Cubs become a .500 team next year, and a contender the next.



CHAMPS!!!

 

[SilenceS]

Who in gods name would want Josh Johnson? That raft sailed, got a hole, and sunk two years ago. He is washed up, and considering the haul the Marlins got our of that huge deal during the winter, compared to specifically where the Jays are, in last place among some of the worst teams in the league, I would say the Marlins sold high and got a great return for washed up has beens.

After all the trades, the Cubs have sent themselves up with so much system depth that wasn't even there a year ago. You cannot be anything but impressed and thank ful, imo, that Theo has done the right thing and stuck to his plan instead of bending to the small core group of fanboi's who want him to spend money like Hendry did. Hendry couldn't build a farm system. Theo obviously can.
Ill take this, and couple it with yet another high draft pick, and watch the Cubs become a .500 team next year, and a contender the next.



CHAMPS!!!

:facepalm:

 

[patg006]

Right now Myers looks awesome in Tampa. Credit their system, credit the coaches, credit his approach. It will be interesting to see his adjustments to pitchers adjustments to him. However Shields is still a fantastic pitcher, could fetch KC a prize, could also help out KC if their hitters started hitting.

Want Garza back, will he resign? I wont say 'never' but.....its not likely. Boston likes him too much, Yanks do, Jays do, and a host of teams as well. I also wont be surprised if right after another fantastic start a 5 year deal with the rangers is announced.

Who in god's name would want Josh Johnson? He's a good pitcher, just made of glass.....I'd take him right now. Probably will be a flip pitcher next year for a team; likely the cubs.

Hendry couldnt build a farm system? The wizard with the extra chromosome has arrived, everyone...

 

[KBisBack!]

I probably have the best perspective on the Shields/Myers trade living in KC.

It was a HUGE topic at the time and still is.

Even if the Royals do happen to come up short this season and miss the playoffs, there will still be GREAT value for the Royals for what they have received.

This is the first time in about a decade that the Royals are relevant this late in the season. If they win again tomorrow in New York against the Mets, that will give them 11 wins in their last 12 games and will be returning home for a 10 game homestand. I expect that they should get close to 30,000ish a game hopefully, which may not sound like a lot to Cubs fans, but for a team that has regularly been in the bottom 5 in attendance, that would be a very nice sign.

They also still have a chance to extend Shields. Shields has already said he would be open to it and is enjoying his time in the city. They probably can't keep both Shields and Santana, but they will have a bit of money coming off the books after this season. Francoeur and his $7M will be off the books as will probably Santana's $13M, Hochevar's and Chen's $4.5M apiece. Now Guthrie gets a nice bump in pay and Hosmer and Holland hit their first season or arb, so some of that money is already spent, but there is probably more than enough to extend Shields if they like.

They have the bullpen arms to replace Hochevar in the bullpen.

Chen has been moved into the rotation and likely he and Santana will have to be replaced in the rotation so they have to hope that a couple of guys like Duffy, Zimmer, Will Smith and Yordano Ventura or Felipe Paulino are ready to step up and fill in.

If the hopefully improved attendance which a team like the Royals is much more dependent on then most teams can lead the ownership to add maybe another $10M to the payroll and get the Royals in the $90M payroll to either keep some players they don't currently think they can keep or add a quality bat to RF, then this team can be a contender next year.

But the window appears to be a very small window as players like Alex Gordon and Billy Butler will be eligible for FA come 2016.

Myers is off to a great start in Tampa and his bat could be a definite plus to the Royals OF right now, but without Shields on the team Myers would only be a young OF off to a decent start on a very bad team. There is still tremendous value gain by the Royals in what Shields has provided them and still being on the fringes of the playoff hunt still in early August.

 

[JosMin]

I probably have the best perspective on the Shields/Myers trade living in KC.

Where do you live at in Kansas City? I used to live there when I graduated from college. I lived off of Barry Road on Roanridge.

 

[KBisBack!]

Jos,

I actually sincerely appreciate the attempt at real discussion, but would prefer to just leave it at that I live in the KC area due to my past issues with stalkers and that is in no way an accusation against you.

I am however familiar with the area you used to live. You were near the big AMC theater complex and across 29 from Zona Rosa.

How did you find your time here? Miss the BBQ? lol

 

[Jntg4]

Jos,

I actually sincerely appreciate the attempt at real discussion, but would prefer to just leave it at that I live in the KC area due to my past issues with stalkers and that is in no way an accusation against you.

I am however familiar with the area you used to live. You were near the big AMC theater complex and across 29 from Zona Rosa.

How did you find your time here? Miss the BBQ? lol

Nicholas Fisch?

 

[Flacco4Prez]

I would not want Cruz or Josh Johnson. If anything Ellsbury and Garza would be the best players to go after. Cano would be really nice but he is going to land an absurd contract from the Yankees especially if they get out of the A-Rod deal

 

[nwfisch]

Nicholas Fisch?

Jackson Scofield?

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Never gonna happen, but if the Twins were to put Mauer on waivers again, I wonder what the cost would be if the Cubs were to take on the entirety of his salary. He is way overpaid but still is one of the best catchers in the league and would be a great bat to add to the Cubs lineup

 

[KBisBack!]

Nicholas Fisch?

I don't think it is anyone that is currently active on the board.

 

[Jntg4]

Jackson Scofield?

Hate that guy!

 

[JosMin]

Jos,

I actually sincerely appreciate the attempt at real discussion, but would prefer to just leave it at that I live in the KC area due to my past issues with stalkers and that is in no way an accusation against you.

I am however familiar with the area you used to live. You were near the big AMC theater complex and across 29 from Zona Rosa.

How did you find your time here? Miss the BBQ? lol

Hell yeah I do -- It was one of the main reasons I moved out there, :lol:. I worked for FedEx at the time as a project coordinator, and one of the guys who worked for me had season tickets for Royals games, so we'd go a lot. Kauffman Stadium is a great place to watch a game. We sat about 15 rows behind the Royals dugout. I lived out there in '09 and '10, so I got to see a young Billy Butler, Zack Greinke and the immortal Gil Meche.

I dated a chick that worked in the Gap at Zona Rosa, getting the discount was bad ass. But hot damn -- the barbecue. We used to go to the one on Brooklyn almost once a week. The burnt-ends sandwich was off the hook. I loved going to Grinders and Blanc's, too. Dining was certainly awesome in KC. I'd love to move back there someday.

 

[mountsalami]

Josh Johnson has been absolutely horrible this year. I'd want no part of him. I've made this point several times before, but somehow I'm also cast as a troll. The Cubs are at the point where they can fill ML roster holes that won't potentially block a key prospect -- centerfield, catcher, starting pitching. If they're able to find value and make sure the players are signed for market value or lower, they could potentially flip those guys for more prospects once their young core gets closer to a call-up.

My ideal situation would be snagging Shin-Soo Choo, Brian McCann, Omar Infante and a starter or two (Ervin Santana and Tim Lincecum would be nice). You'd probably be adding upwards for $50 million in annual salary, but all of those guys are quality players who shouldn't show any signs of regression for a while. The Cubs would be helping themselves two-fold -- giving themselves a chance to bolster the everyday roster and add value long-term by having potential trade chips on reasonable deals.

Good post. Being that I'm not totally against players with "upside", I think Johnson is still young enough and has shown , when healthy, he can be an ace. He already comes with a ML resume unlike the flyers Command Central seems to be placing most of their eggs.

I would see nothing wrong with an attempt at trying to obtain him. They spent 30 million on Soler and we still don't know if he'll ever make it to the ML or be productive if he ever makes it there. With a team claiming that they are not going to compete in 2014 either. Johnson could be an asset if and when they finally decide to push the start button.