VDN On Notice

[ramblingrose33]

So I'm looking at greener pastures right now because things are a bit grim. I read a report the other day that had VDN's days numbered if he can't pull 500 in the next 15 or so games. I'm hoping that happens as I don't think VDN can develop our team or lead us to to even the point that we were at with Skiles. With that mind two questions:

1) If VDN was canned mid-season, how would that affect our summer free agent signing?

and

2) What about Mark Jackson as coach?

 

[ramblingrose33]

I find it important to look at the average Joe we have as a coach....

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vinny_del_negro/index.html

Honestly, I think his hire had to be thought of a two-year stint. Why give a new coach such a short leash? Also, Reinsdorf couldn't imagine paying the rest of Skiles' contract and hire a decent coach that wanted to paid.

 

[TheStig]

Why is Vinny on notice? He isn't playing with a talented or healthy roster, what do you expect him to do, suit up and become our outside shooter? Kirk, Salmons and JR should be on notice. We didn't hire a top level couch, so what did you really expect from him?

 

[ramblingrose33]

But that's my point I guess. Why do we not have a top level coach? He was a mistaken hire. Completely. What do you see in VDN that you want to keep? He looks panicked all time. He's a perfect blend of Dick Jauron and Wannstedt. Weirdly quiet sometimes yet he looks completely freaked out at other times.

Plus, do you really think he can develop Rose's game? Help Deng develop? Noah? I honestly don't think so. Nothing in his professional career show that. Better yet, nothing in his coaching career show that.

How come the Bulls have to be his hamster? I'm sorry, I watched Floyd, Cartwright, and Boylan coach. I'm tired of guys that lack an identity or general coaching strategy/aura. You get to learn how to be coach on the Bucks, Thunder, Hawks. Not the Bulls.

 

[TheStig]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But that's my point I guess. Why do we not have a top level coach? He was a mistaken hire. Completely. What do you see in VDN that you want to keep? He looks panicked all time. He's a perfect blend of Dick Jauron and Wannstedt. Weirdly quiet sometimes yet he looks completely freaked out at other times.

Plus, do you really think he can develop Rose's game? Help Deng develop? Noah? I honestly don't think so. Nothing in his professional career show that. Better yet, nothing in his coaching career show that.

How come the Bulls have to be his hamster? I'm sorry, I watched Floyd, Cartwright, and Boylan coach. I'm tired of guys that lack an identity or general coaching strategy/aura. You get to learn how to be coach on the Bucks, Thunder, Hawks. Not the Bulls.

I think you are exaggerating your case. Vinny is an average NBA head coach, sure he makes some mistakes here and there but he is not a machine and most importantly he has a great rotation and plays only our best players.

Both Deng and Noah are playing their best ball of their careers under VDN so I'm not sure where the complaint is coming from. Rose has also been injured for most of the year and will come along. Sure he should be put on the spot a bit more but I think that is more of rose's timidness than a VDN coaching flaw. I am really not sure what else you can expect from him, his roster just isn't very talented. They have clear roster issues and that have gone unfixed and gotten worse. My problem is more with the front office than the coaching. I don't think he is a championship coach but we are nowhere near that anyway.

That makes no sense. VDN didn't appoint himself, if you are tired of unexpirenced coaches, your problem is with JR not VDN. It wasn't his choice to make. Dan Tony wanted to come here but we fumbled that in typically bad negotiations.

 

[ramblingrose33]

I've never met somebody that defends VDN like you. I agree, I have a beef with the front office too however, VDN does not belong here. I'd take him as an assistant but not a head coach. What is this team's identity? What does VDN bring to the table? This point has been asked before on this board. The early Skiles team had raw and poor talent yet still had a defensive mentality and a bit of swagger. I don't see that with VDN's team. I also don't buy that VDN's team is lacking talent-wise. That only goes so far.

Deng and Noah are playing good ball but that doesn't necessarily translate to VDN. Deng is playing as well as he did in 05 - 06 under Skiles. Noah has gotten better but I can't find anyway of pointing that back to VDN. Oh right, he was a dominant big man is a freakish 6'4 frame...

 

[TheStig]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

I've never met somebody that defends VDN like you. I agree, I have a beef with the front office too however, VDN does not belong here. I'd take him as an assistant but not a head coach. What is this team's identity? What does VDN bring to the table? This point has been asked before on this board. The early Skiles team had raw and poor talent yet still had a defensive mentality and a bit of swagger. I don't see that with VDN's team. I also don't buy that VDN's team is lacking talent-wise. That only goes so far.

Deng and Noah are playing good ball but that doesn't necessarily translate to VDN. Deng is playing as well as he did in 05 - 06 under Skiles. Noah has gotten better but I can't find anyway of pointing that back to VDN. Oh right, he was a dominant big man is a freakish 6'4 frame...

I just don't see whats so bad about VDN. I really feel like he is an average NBA coach. He is more offensive oriented and lost his best player this offseason and had his next best player injured for most of the year. I don't know what more he could really do with the roster and injuries he has. I am just fine with his performance, sure you could do better but you could just as easily do worse. I wanted Dan Tony, but we just weren't going to spend the money and at least VDN puts the best possible line up out there. He is no where near the Boylan level of dysfunction.

Well if you aren't going to give him credit for anyone's successes and just his failures of course he is going to look bad.

 

[cool007]

I am really hoping that WE DO fire Vinny.

I just hate his offensive scheme and there is NO IDENTITY. We are not that good of a defensive team and we really suck on the offensive side.

Vinny also doesn't call many plays for Rose -mostly for Salmons and Deng and I simply hate the ISO plays for Salmons and Deng. I just don't think vinny has any clue on how to utilize the talent we have on the team - especially Rose. Does he motivate ANY player on the team???

I wish we had an experienced coach - especially the one who knows how to handle star PGs and how to develop them.

 

[ramblingrose33]

I don't think VDN is average. An average coach has experience to draw from when in game situations. All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be head coach at least in the future. You have to give me that at least!

Nothing in the past year and quarter have shown me that he deserves an extension outside of having the balls to play Gordon even though management wasn't going to sign him.

 

[ramblingrose33]

cool007 wrote:

I just hate his offensive scheme and there is NO IDENTITY. We are not that good of a defensive team and we really suck on the offensive side.

Vinny also doesn't call many plays for Rose -mostly for Salmons and Deng and I simply hate the ISO plays for Salmons and Deng. I just don't think vinny has any clue on how to utilize the talent we have on the team - especially Rose. Does he motivate ANY player on the team???

Both good points. Nobody can ever answer the Bulls lack of identity under VDN. It's sad...

Also, did anyone realize how many times we ran a baseline strong side play for Rose last night only for him to run up against Bogut? I saw this happen almost back to back at times in some quarters. VDN's play calling is like that of an interim coach. Better yet, I'd consider him maybe, MAYBE the Trent Dilfer of NBA coaches. He only manages, he can't coach.

 

[houheffna]

VDN is not doing that bad...you know what his offensive identity is? Let Rose handle the ball then give it to the wing players that cannot shoot straight. Basically, if the open man cannot hit shots, the offense will look inept...no matter what offense you run...

You have no post game, you have no shots made...you have problems. He calls pick and rolls for Rose..the defense goes under until Rose is more consistent with his jumpshot and the same with Miller who is worthless to the team offensively if he cannot hit the open jumper off of pick and roll. VDN has done an adequate job all things considered. A new coach will inherit old problems...

 

[ramblingrose33]

I'm willing to say he can play out his contract even though I'd prefer him canned BUT, do you think he should get an extension?

 

[pinkizdead]

i'm not saying give him an extention, but eh..do you want bernie bickerstaff as your head coach? IF you dont, i dont suggest firing vdn. the bulls organization has contracted vdn, and will have to patiently wait out the infection.

 

[TheStig]

cool007 wrote:

I am really hoping that WE DO fire Vinny.

I just hate his offensive scheme and there is NO IDENTITY. We are not that good of a defensive team and we really suck on the offensive side.

Vinny also doesn't call many plays for Rose -mostly for Salmons and Deng and I simply hate the ISO plays for Salmons and Deng. I just don't think vinny has any clue on how to utilize the talent we have on the team - especially Rose. Does he motivate ANY player on the team???

I wish we had an experienced coach - especially the one who knows how to handle star PGs and how to develop them.

I think that is more of a function of the roster than the coach. Do you really think Mike Brown has a offense scheme? He was COY. VDN has instilled a solid offensive system last year and has struggled this year because he lost his best player and has had his second best player from last year slowed by an injury most of the year. Defensively, I think he has instilled a better defense. So I think he has given us some solid schemes, I think the offense will get better when Rose steps it up and takes over it a bit. but that can't happen till he is a 100%.

 

[jsain360]

ramblingrose33 wrote:

But that's my point I guess. Why do we not have a top level coach? He was a mistaken hire. Completely. What do you see in VDN that you want to keep? He looks panicked all time. He's a perfect blend of Dick Jauron and Wannstedt. Weirdly quiet sometimes yet he looks completely freaked out at other times.

Plus, do you really think he can develop Rose's game? Help Deng develop? Noah? I honestly don't think so. Nothing in his professional career show that. Better yet, nothing in his coaching career show that.

How come the Bulls have to be his hamster? I'm sorry, I watched Floyd, Cartwright, and Boylan coach. I'm tired of guys that lack an identity or general coaching strategy/aura. You get to learn how to be coach on the Bucks, Thunder, Hawks. Not the Bulls.

You get learn how to be a coach in the D-League