Watched the combine workout/some tape on Nelson, and....

[Mjiton]

This mofo just talked about himself in the third person.

:lmao: :bowrofl: :lol:

I was just wondering if he forgot to switch to an alt before posting that.

 

[Toast88]

1) Sarcasm aside, I am not paying a lot of attention to this draft because i've been working a lot and bought an investment property in Feb. Just busy, so sorry I am late on the train.

2) OP has been right on prospects a lot more often than wrong on this board. I won't beat the drum, but that's just the truth.

3) SOME people have touted the flexibility of this particular prospect vis a vis his ability to swing out to RT or even LT. I think it's important to comment on that capacity being real or imagined.

4) The OG position, while being somewhat relevant to pass blocking, is the LEAST IMPORTANT POSITION related to pass blocking. OT is obviously more important, and in most cases the C position makes calls/adjustments on protection, so is more important than G. I always chuckle when I hear people on the radio talking about picking Nelson because protecting Trubisky is so important.....ok, maybe a little, lol.

I wouldn’t dislike a Nelson pick, but it’s worth noting that all the people wanting him because of Trubisky might be a little off-track, one because of the reason you mentioned, the other because pass-blocking isn’t really even his strength. He’s a world-class run blocker and a good pass blocker. Hell, the Bears can find good pass blockers later in the draft if it’s about Trubisky.

If anything, picking Nelson would mean more for Jordan Howard.

 

[Toast88]

Nelson doesn't have the lateral foot quickness to play LT in the NFL.



Agreed. He's also a more dominant run blocker anyway. If you want to help Trubisky's protection, trade down and get Mcglinchey and use the extra pick for another weapon for him to throw to.

Beat me to it on the last point.

 

[Myk]

I wouldn’t dislike a Nelson pick, but it’s worth noting that all the people wanting him because of Trubisky might be a little off-track, one because of the reason you mentioned, the other because pass-blocking isn’t really even his strength. He’s a world-class run blocker and a good pass blocker. Hell, the Bears can find good pass blockers later in the draft if it’s about Trubisky.

If anything, picking Nelson would mean more for Jordan Howard.

He's certainly not bad at pass blocking.
And to claim he doesn't protect the QB, show up to the line without a guard and see how fast the sacks come.

 

[Da Coach]

Having a dominant run game also protects your young qb

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[ijustposthere]

He's certainly not bad at pass blocking.
And to claim he doesn't protect the QB, show up to the line without a guard and see how fast the sacks come.

Even when the Bears had terrible guards, it was the tackles getting beat consistently that killed them. Your overemphasis on the guard position because of Nelson has gotten out of control. They could look at Hernandez or Smith in the 2nd round, or even Billy Price at center and move Whitehair back to guard where he belongs. There is way too much defensive talent at the top of this draft to pass on defense for a guard.

 

[Myk]

Even when the Bears had terrible guards, it was the tackles getting beat consistently that killed them. Your overemphasis on the guard position because of Nelson has gotten out of control. They could look at Hernandez or Smith in the 2nd round, or even Billy Price at center and move Whitehair back to guard where he belongs. There is way too much defensive talent at the top of this draft to pass on defense for a guard.

My over-emphasis?
That's funny because my emphasis is on best player. I've even said Price at 39 if it was defense at 8 figuring to do just that with Whitehair. I highly doubt you get Hernandez at 39, anything could happen but I don't think that will.
The reason I was Nelson over Chubb last week was mainly because of all you pinheads acting like defense is the whole team (I'm probably Barkley Chubb Nelson Fitzpatrick this week). I'm not against defense at 8. I'm against passing over talent on offense for projects on defense because you're enamored with workout results.

Perhaps it seems like over-emphasis because of everyone blowing off the position like it's nothing in spite of the pros projecting him to be a top 10 pick so they can dream about defensive projects with the top 10 pick.

There is way too much defensive talent at the back of the draft with a lack of offensive talent to try to build up the top-10 defense as your #1 goal while ignoring the bottom feeding offense. I'm sure you can find Lovie seasons on video if you want to watch the Bears loose with a great defense and make QBs be less than they could be because of the players around them.

 

[TL1961]

Guards won't help protect Trubisky because, of course, he will never need to step up in the pocket. Especially with Bobbie Massie manning one tackle spot.

 

[theOHIOSTATE!]

Of course they help protect MT, but they have, AGAIN, the least important job out of the 3 regarding pass protection.

Nice try at strawmanning people; to bad some of us have IQs over 19

 

[TL1961]

People think guards don't matter in pass protection when the guards do their job, and the Tackles get beat.

Try protecting your QB from a bull rush with shitty guards.

And, YES, he will help in the running game, and a good running game protects / helps your QB.

I agree there are other viable options for grabbing a G or Price at C and moving Whitehair. I am not opposed to that. But Nelson, Whitehair and a healthy Kyle Long is a nice interior OLine.

 

[theOHIOSTATE!]

When you rightly get called out for strawmanning, setting up multiple additional strawmen doesn't seem prudent.

 

[ijustposthere]

There is way too much defensive talent at the back of the draft with a lack of offensive talent to try to build up the top-10 defense as your #1 goal while ignoring the bottom feeding offense. I'm sure you can find Lovie seasons on video if you want to watch the Bears loose with a great defense and make QBs be less than they could be because of the players around them.

Why would you go after offense in a defense heavy draft then? It makes no sense. It might suck that you can't fill all the holes you want to fill, but you can plug up the holes on defense and hopefully shore up the OL in the 2nd/4th round. I suspect this is partly why Pace went very heavy on offense in free agency, because he already knew the chances for impact offensive players in this draft is slim, while he should have his pick of the litter on the defensive side of the ball.

Building defense is part of the team. I don't see why you think that going with the flow of the draft means ignoring the offense or going back to Lovie led defense/incompetent offense teams. The leaps you make to come to your conclusions on this entire issue have been pretty astounding. If I were using the same logic you continually try to project on others that simply don't see the value in a guard being drafted top ten, I could pretty much accuse you of trying to recapture the Trestman led years that put everything into offense and ignored the defense.

 

[ijustposthere]

People think guards don't matter in pass protection when the guards do their job, and the Tackles get beat.

Try protecting your QB from a bull rush with shitty guards.

And, YES, he will help in the running game, and a good running game protects / helps your QB.

I agree there are other viable options for grabbing a G or Price at C and moving Whitehair. I am not opposed to that. But Nelson, Whitehair and a healthy Kyle Long is a nice interior OLine.

Except the Bears don't really have shitty guards. The Bears OL isn't some terrible group holding back the team. It isn't some massive project to make it better right now. Actually, the only outcome that I wouldn't be satisfied with for the Bears is if they draft a fucking guard with the 8th pick. Drafting in the bottom half, I wouldn't mind. I'd prefer something else, but it wouldn't bother me. Top ten, absolutely fucking not. You should be getting an impact player at an impact position. The only offensive line position that does that is the LT.

 

[SugarWalls]

I didn't offer any options.
That's what I see from those who demand defense in the 1st with the excuse of positional value (yet they want a project). Then they want defense in the 2nd and sometimes defense in the 4th then they throw in some offense who are rated lucky to be a backup, ala J'Taco, sold to us as a great hidden gem.

So in the very likely scenario that Nelson is gone are you willing to provide an opinion, or are you as much of a troll as omelette?

 

[HAVOCONE]

Well, if we get Nelson, it would be nice to have the LT that played with him at ND also. that would immediately upgrade our line for a few years. is it, McClinchy? i forget, but he is a good player to, and we do need a good T. i think having him will move massie to a backup, which isn't a bad idea either, . leno, or McC could man the left or right probably better then massie. Bears really do have a good chance to seriously upgrade the O-line. our Defense was top 10 last yr, with a crappy offense. imagine having a solid offense, that gives our D time to rest? everything starts upfront on both sides of the ball. a good team builds from the inside out.

 

[Myk]

Why would you go after offense in a defense heavy draft then? It makes no sense. It might suck that you can't fill all the holes you want to fill, but you can plug up the holes on defense and hopefully shore up the OL in the 2nd/4th round. I suspect this is partly why Pace went very heavy on offense in free agency, because he already knew the chances for impact offensive players in this draft is slim, while he should have his pick of the litter on the defensive side of the ball.

Building defense is part of the team. I don't see why you think that going with the flow of the draft means ignoring the offense or going back to Lovie led defense/incompetent offense teams. The leaps you make to come to your conclusions on this entire issue have been pretty astounding. If I were using the same logic you continually try to project on others that simply don't see the value in a guard being drafted top ten, I could pretty much accuse you of trying to recapture the Trestman led years that put everything into offense and ignored the defense.

Work the draft backwards so you get viable players with every pick instead of leaving yourself with nothing but backups at positions of need. Then it won't suck because you can't fill the holes.
By the nature of it being a defense heavy draft that means it's an offense light draft. That is why you pick the good offense while you can. That is why you don't pass over the best offensive players to get defensive projects.

I'm OK with defense at 8 and offense at 39, but that's not what I'm seeing from people. I'm seeing defense 8, 39, 105, 115 and then if lucky offense in the 5th. Not so much lately after I found out how difficult it was to find good offense later but I started out thinking offense/defense flip from rounds 1 & 2.

And I'm not seeing defensive talent wanted, I'm seeing defensive projects at the cost of offensive talent. Between the project players on defense and the projected backups on offense this would be the worst draft ever if they got their way.

I'm seeing fans wanting exactly what Lovie did. You got your QB, now let him make the offense shine, we're focusing on defense.
Newsflash: Pace wasn't brought in to change the Chicago Bears into a defense first team. I would think the fact that we have the first top 10 QB since McMahon would clue you in on that. We could've had a safety instead.

If Nelson's position excluded him from a top 10 pick the pros wouldn't have him rated that far above OTs. The pros say you're wrong.

So in the very likely scenario that Nelson is gone are you willing to provide an opinion, or are you as much of a troll as omelette?

I've always had my top 4 as Barkley, Chubb, Nelson and Fitzpatrick in some order or another, that's today's order. I could even add Smith and Ward, maybe, I haven't looked into them much. (edit) And Landry, I have looked at him enough to like what I saw. (/edit)
Ideally if 8 is offense or defense 39 is the opposite of 8. Although the more I looked into low round players the more I've leaned away from that.

Well, if we get Nelson, it would be nice to have the LT that played with him at ND also. that would immediately upgrade our line for a few years. is it, McClinchy? i forget, but he is a good player to, and we do need a good T. i think having him will move massie to a backup, which isn't a bad idea either, . leno, or McC could man the left or right probably better then massie. Bears really do have a good chance to seriously upgrade the O-line. our Defense was top 10 last yr, with a crappy offense. imagine having a solid offense, that gives our D time to rest? everything starts upfront on both sides of the ball. a good team builds from the inside out.

As far as I know we need a G and OT. I won't be surprised if McGlinchey, Williams and Hernandez go higher than some of the defensive names being thrown around.