What is Derrick Rose really good at?

[kukoc4ever]

Color me skeptical on the Derrick Rose is a superstar bandwagon.

Is he good at defense? Team or individual? No.

Is he a good rebounder? No.

Is he a good long range shooter? No.

Is he good at creating for others? No, not for a point guard. He's about at the level of Hinrich, IMO.

Rose really isn't a great point guard at this point. He's OK. He's more like a SG that is OK at distributing. No PG mentality though.

He has a really good midrange J and is really good at attacking and finishing at the rim.

That's about it.

He's very young, so there is plenty of time for improvement, but he really needs to extend his scoring distance and become a MUCH better defender before he's anywhere close to an elite NBA player. And that's just assuming he'll never develop real PG skills.

 

[mlewinth]

Derrick Rose was incredible for a rookie. He has a freakish body for a PG and he is if not the fastest, a top 3 contender for fastest player in the game. Rookies normally suck at D, especially guards, so I am not going to discuss that. His jump shot is actually very good, though he has to improve his range. Rose shot over 47% last season. That is DAMN good for a rookie guard. You can't say he doesn't have a point guard mentality! He averaged 6.3 assists a game as a rookie! That is about 1 assist less than Chris Paul, Magic Johnson and 2 assists more than Deron Williams had his rookie season.

The question here is, is Derrick Rose a superstar yet? NO! He is going into his second year and is only 21 years old! He however had monster stats for a 20 year old rookie and has the insane body and athletic abilities to be the best PG in the game. He won rookie of the year for christ sakes! Derrick Rose's future is as bright as anyone's in the NBA.

 

[kukoc4ever]

I dunno.

6ish assists a game is OK, but he only generates an assist around 1 out of 4 possessions.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/jh_ALL_AST.htm

The very good PGs do a much better job at this.


Just watching him play, he's more intent on attacking the rim and scoring more than being a true PG. Not that its a terrible thing, there are good "PGs" that focus more on scoring than creating for others, but I really think he needs to seriously extend his range if he wants to be an all-star.

Who do you think he projects out like at this point in terms of PGs, based on his style to this point?

Chauncey?

 

[pinkizdead]

yeah the expectations for what rose can be shouldnt be applied to what rose is. We drafted a guy who was 20. keep that in mind. He isn't a finished product.

either way, our future rests with him. i can understand your concern, but i'm pretty happy with what i see. a hardworking talented player like rose doesnt really come around every time.I think we used our high draft pick very well. I mean hay we could have gotten tyrus and khrypka(sp?) or Baraganni/oden.

 

[houheffna]

When Rose steps on the court, he is the most athletic of any pg in the league. That and the uncanny combination of size and speed, and a willingness to harness all to better his game (Tyrus are you reading this?) is what has and will continue to keep him on a steady road to greatness. Will he be a scoring point guard? More Isiah or Tim Hardaway? Or will he be an assist man like Stockton or Mark Jackson? He is much more athletic than any of those guys and any pg I can think of...except for maybe Michael Ray Richardson, but he could play 3 positions. I believe the sky is the limit for Rose, check out game 1 of the playoff series against Boston and you can see greatness there, with a game that is still very limited...

 

[TheStig]

I'd really like to see Rose go into the contact and try to finish above the rim. He certainly has the athletism to do that and if he does both, I think he will get a lot more calls and get to the line more. I really think once he does that, improves his jumper a bit and fixes his defense, he will be a star.

 

[mlewinth]

I agree. Rose has a much better ability to score than most PG's. I don't want him to be a John Stockton or Steve Nash, he has too much ability to penetrate to be that. 6 assists a game is fantastic for a rookie. If you saw him in college he had a very uncanny passing instinct that was unusual for a kid his age. With his natural ability, he is going to be a phenominal player, but he is going to be very unique. Unlike any other PG in the leauge.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I see Rose becoming the kind of scoring PG that gets like 8-9 assists per game. His speed and strength are too great for him not to be a scoring type PG IMO.

 

[??? ??????]

Derrick Rose will need to become a 33% three point shooter, who takes a significant amount of threes in a game if he wants to be a superstar. That, and his mental block which keeps him from taking over, are all that's holding him back from being a superstar.

Right now, Derrick Rose = Steve Francis.

 

[mlewinth]

??? ?????? wrote:

Derrick Rose will need to become a 33% three point shooter, who takes a significant amount of threes in a game if he wants to be a superstar. That, and his mental block which keeps him from taking over, are all that's holding him back from being a superstar.

Right now, Derrick Rose = Steve Francis.

Again...Rose = Rookie. Kevin Durant avg 27% from three his rookie season and 42% in year 2! Francis was not as athletic as D Rose, hence Rose's higher rookie fg%. Also, Francis was a little *****.

 

[Rerisen]

??? ?????? wrote:

Derrick Rose will need to become a 33% three point shooter, who takes a significant amount of threes in a game if he wants to be a superstar. That, and his mental block which keeps him from taking over, are all that's holding him back from being a superstar.

Right now, Derrick Rose = Steve Francis.

Similar tools. Except Steve Francis wasn't a team player. He was more about getting Steve Francis a shot than his teammates a good shot. Pound, pound, pound and try to show someone up. Francis also shot under 45% for 9 out of 10 years in his career, Derrick has already bested any percentage he put up because Rose is very careful about the quality of shots he takes.

That hasn't translated into great efficiency yet, but it would be hard to believe his free throw draw won't increase, which will bring that number up.

Rose needs better finishers around the rim as well to make his life as a passer a little easier. If Tyrus would stop trying to be Joe Smith on offense it would be nice.

 

[dougthonus]

??? ?????? wrote:

Derrick Rose will need to become a 33% three point shooter, who takes a significant amount of threes in a game if he wants to be a superstar. That, and his mental block which keeps him from taking over, are all that's holding him back from being a superstar.

Right now, Derrick Rose = Steve Francis.

I disagree with that. Look at Tony Parker, Dwyane Wade, or Michael Jordan.

He needs to score efficiently, but that can also be done by attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. Derrick's 47.6% FG% already bests Steve Francis's career best 45.1% by a significant margin and is in another league relative to his 42.9% career average.

Rose's game is very similar to Parker's except that Rose is bigger and more physical.

I too am skeptical of Rose becoming a superstar, but I don't think his game needs to change all that much. Derrick Rose needs to draw two more fouls a game on the same number of possessions he had last year to be an all-star. Take away 2 of his misses and call them fouls, and add 3 points, and his TS% is sitting around 57% or so is my guess.

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

Derrick Rose will need to become a 33% three point shooter, who takes a significant amount of threes in a game if he wants to be a superstar. That, and his mental block which keeps him from taking over, are all that's holding him back from being a superstar.

Right now, Derrick Rose = Steve Francis.

I disagree with that. Look at Tony Parker, Dwyane Wade, or Michael Jordan.

He needs to score efficiently, but that can also be done by attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. Derrick's 47.6% FG% already bests Steve Francis's career best 45.1% by a significant margin and is in another league relative to his 42.9% career average.

Rose's game is very similar to Parker's except that Rose is bigger and more physical.

I too am skeptical of Rose becoming a superstar, but I don't think his game needs to change all that much. Derrick Rose needs to draw two more fouls a game on the same number of possessions he had last year to be an all-star. Take away 2 of his misses and call them fouls, and add 3 points, and his TS% is sitting around 57% or so is my guess.

You beat me to the punch, I was going to bring up wade. As long as you sorround him with three point shooters to spread the floor he will be fine. Just look at this past year, when defenders hung off of him he made that mid range 2 to keep them honest.

 

[kukoc4ever]

Steve Francis career ts%
53.3

Derrick Rose career ts%
51.6

So, Francis is the more effective scorer. He shot 3s and 3 > 2.

No real point looking at FG%, IMO. Rose shoots shorter shots than Francis did. Of course, Francis and his team were rewarded with 3 points instead of 2 for those longer shots.

Also, interesting was looking at Francis' assist % his first 3 years in the league. It hovered around 30%. Rose's last year was 29%.

Yikes, maybe Francis is the proper comparison.

 

[cool007]

To me what's holding him back are only couple of things.

He needs to attack the basket right from the get go, and get to the line. Almost all superstars get to the line A LOT. Rose's efficiency would have been really good if he was able to go to the line LAST year.

He will definitely improve in that area given that he is strong and can absorb the contact and get a shot off, plus he can get to the rim so effortlessly.

2nd, he needs to be aggressive right from the start and be in ATTACK mode. He usually worries too much about running the offense and let everyone touch the ball and all that good stuff but if he is in the attack mode and scores himself, that will really open up passing for him. So that will raise his assists coz now everyone is trying to stop Rose drawing lot of attention. Or in other words, making his teammates better.

Those 2 things Superstars are really good at and I want Rose to be just that. He already is a very good rebounder, passer, scorer for a PG.

And yeah, last but not the least, he needs to learn to play better defense. If he wants to be a TRUE superstar, he needs to play at BOTH ENDS of the floor.

He has all the tools, all the skills in the world, Desire, willingness, smart, and he is willing to do that - meaning he will sooner or later get there.

Hopefully sooner the better.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

The most important thing for Rose is to stop his turnovers. He had way too much last season.

 

[TheStig]

Bullseye wrote:

The most important thing for Rose is to stop his turnovers. He had way too much last season.

I don't think 2.5 turnovers a game is a lot for him. Chris Paul averaged 3 last year.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

In Playoffs he averaged 5,0. That can be 10+ points. And you know how close those games have been.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

kukoc4ever wrote:

Steve Francis career ts%
53.3

Derrick Rose career ts%
51.6

So, Francis is the more effective scorer. He shot 3s and 3 > 2.

No real point looking at FG%, IMO. Rose shoots shorter shots than Francis did. Of course, Francis and his team were rewarded with 3 points instead of 2 for those longer shots.

Also, interesting was looking at Francis' assist % his first 3 years in the league. It hovered around 30%. Rose's last year was 29%.

Yikes, maybe Francis is the proper comparison.

derrick still has 2+ more seasons to go before you can make these comparisons.

its too early to say that rose cannot be an all star, but you can be damn sure that the potential is there. if you watch the games closer, his passing is top notch, but that doesnt mean that the guy he passes to is going to make that shot. if he keeps passing the ball and tyrus keeps missing that jumper, how many assists can he possibly average like that?

his speed, his hops, his handles, add to this the ridiculous amount of no-calls he got last season, imo i can see this kid being an all-star in the next 2-3 years (if not this year). his work ethic, his attitude and humility set him apart from steve francis, thats for sure.

 

[kukoc4ever]

Oh, OK, we can just look at the rookie years.

Rose rookie year ts%
51.6

Francis rookie year ts%
54.3


-------

Rose rookie year assist%
28.8

Francis rookie year assist ratio
31.6


----

Rose rookie year PER
16

Francis rookie year PER
18.4


----

ulp.