2015 Spring Training Thread

[SilenceS]

 

[Bear Pride]

It was kinda like an old girlfriend trying prove she was right about a dumb conversation from the past that only meant something to her. Just saying. :dunno:

 

[SilenceS]

It was kinda like an old girlfriend trying prove she was right about a dumb conversation from the past that only meant something to her. Just saying. :dunno:

:-v

 

[Bear Pride]

:-v

That's a MRS pacman, right?

 

[SilenceS]

That's a MRS pacman, right?

v-:

 

[brett05]

Maybe he stays down a little longer, maybe they put him in LF earlier than they expect. Again the defense argument is mostly posturing in order to play the game that's been set out fro them in the CBA. I'd count on him being up sometime after 4/17 with enough time inbetween to make it not look quite as blatant. I'm really tired of this argument being played out everywhere.

I'm speaking directly of the impending MLBPA lawsuit. If Bryant regresses defensively I think he gets his time of service in court if he gets brought up anyway.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I'm speaking directly of the impending MLBPA lawsuit. If Bryant regresses defensively I think he gets his time of service in court if he gets brought up anyway.

There won't be a lawsuit, just a grievance filed under the CBA. They considered filing, and actually prepared the paperwork, on behalf of the Astros George Springer last year but ultimately didn't. If they do this time it will be to highlight the issue in advance of negotiations for a new CBA as Rosenthal recommends. They will lose the grievance as, although everyone knows what the Cubs are doing, there is no way to prove that it wasn't done for baseball reasons. Theo and Jed have been meticulous in their words on this matter. This was a negotiated piece of the CBA and it's a loophole teams would be foolish to not utilize. Players and agents use everything at their disposal as well. Even if this loophole is renogiated in the next CBA most of the proposed fixes will create new loopholes and other problems. As Joe Sheehan wrote about last week wherever there is a line someone will find a way to cross it. I see this as a non issue.

 

[brett05]

There won't be a lawsuit, just a grievance filed under the CBA. They considered filing, and actually prepared the paperwork, on behalf of the Astros George Springer last year but ultimately didn't. If they do this time it will be to highlight the issue in advance of negotiations for a new CBA as Rosenthal recommends. They will lose the grievance as, although everyone knows what the Cubs are doing, there is no way to prove that it wasn't done for baseball reasons. Theo and Jed have been meticulous in their words on this matter. This was a negotiated piece of the CBA and it's a loophole teams would be foolish to not utilize. Players and agents use everything at their disposal as well. Even if this loophole is renogiated in the next CBA most of the proposed fixes will create new loopholes and other problems. As Joe Sheehan wrote about last week wherever there is a line someone will find a way to cross it. I see this as a non issue.

like I said IF his defense suffers I can't see how the owners win the filing.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

like I said IF his defense suffers I can't see how the owners win the filing.

I'm not even sure what you mean here. Even taking this at face value how would his defense getting worse be any sort of indication of intent which is what the MLBPA would have to prove to win the grievance? I mean they could have every intention for him to improve and like humans sometimes do he just might not. The argument holds no water. If the FO says all the right things, which it has to date steadfastly refusing to take Boras' bait, the grievance is completely unwinnable. The problem is that the criteria are subjective and Bryant, Boras and the Cubs FO all know this. How do you prove that the sole purpose for keeping him down is contractual? Different players are brought up for different reasons and there is no objective standard. There's a reason why this has never been challenged in the past and if it's done this time it will be solely to make it an issue in collective bargaining.

 

[brett05]

I'm not even sure what you mean here. Even taking this at face value how would his defense getting worse be any sort of indication of intent which is what the MLBPA would have to prove to win the grievance? I mean they could have every intention for him to improve and like humans sometimes do he just might not. The argument holds no water. If the FO says all the right things, which it has to date steadfastly refusing to take Boras' bait, the grievance is completely unwinnable. The problem is that the criteria are subjective and Bryant, Boras and the Cubs FO all know this. How do you prove that the sole purpose for keeping him down is contractual? Different players are brought up for different reasons and there is no objective standard. There's a reason why this has never been challenged in the past and if it's done this time it will be solely to make it an issue in collective bargaining.

And I don;t doubt that but I could see something like the collusion deal of the 80's happen hear and guys that did not get their time from day 1 get it restored. As to how would one know if the defense started to lapse? Metrics and observations would be the evidence.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

And I don;t doubt that but I could see something like the collusion deal of the 80's happen hear and guys that did not get their time from day 1 get it restored. As to how would one know if the defense started to lapse? Metrics and observations would be the evidence.

Of course you could tell if started to lapse the point is how many times do you send a player down to work on something and it just doesn't take and in fact he actually gets worse? I would say it happens a lot. The fact remains that there are no objective stats on how to say when a player is ready. In this case everyone knows Bryant is ready but without an objective standard you still can't prove it. This loophole has existed for a long time, I think through at least two maybe three CBAs and the general principle goes back farther than that and was an issue when the Cubs held Mark Grace back. I think this needs to be changed, I'm all in favor of that, but until it is I expect FO types to use it to their advantage. Elite prospects like Bryant don't come along every day so it's more of an issue. There just isn't a case there.

 

[brett05]

Of course you could tell if started to lapse the point is how many times do you send a player down to work on something and it just doesn't take and in fact he actually gets worse? I would say it happens a lot. The fact remains that there are no objective stats on how to say when a player is ready. In this case everyone knows Bryant is ready but without an objective standard you still can't prove it. This loophole has existed for a long time, I think through at least two maybe three CBAs and the general principle goes back farther than that and was an issue when the Cubs held Mark Grace back. I think this needs to be changed, I'm all in favor of that, but until it is I expect FO types to use it to their advantage. Elite prospects like Bryant don't come along every day so it's more of an issue. There just isn't a case there.

And I think it's clearly less of an issue with elite prospects as they almost always take security but we just agree to disagree.

 

[chibears55]

There wont be a grievance filed and if so it wont win..

If MLB loses this grievance then no matter the ballplayer they wont be able to keep anyone down to gain that full year or super2 status..
In other word the agreement that in place that both sides signed off on would then be moot..

 

[SilenceS]

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 19m19 minutes ago

Cubs have done a 180 on Javier Baez . He now seems in good shape to open on the 25 man roster .

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 19m19 minutes ago

Cubs have done a 180 on Javier Baez . He now seems in good shape to open on the 25 man roster .

Levine is well connected but this can't be right. That makes no sense.

 

[TL1961]

Brett, maybe Bryant starts in MLB, maybe he doesn't.

If he starts in the minors, maybe he sues, maybe he doesn't.

If he sues, maybe he wins, maybe he doesn't.

But let me ask you: Don't you thin you're totally obsessed with this? You post about Bryant and the service time issue every day for the entire offseason!

Whatever happens, happens. Let it go!

 

[CSF77]

Lets see: 9 games with out him = 163 more as a Cub on the back end. So it really is a no brainier in the end.

 

[SilenceS]

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com | @CarrieMuskat | 5:46 PM ET

MESA, Ariz. -- Javier Baez leads the Cubs in strikeouts this spring and is batting less than .150, but if you're only looking at that part of the infielder's game, you're not seeing the whole picture, manager Joe Maddon says.

"Generally speaking, fans are always going to evaluate position players by their batting average," Maddon said Tuesday. "They don't care about their defense, they don't care how well they run the bases, they don't care about any of that stuff.

"When it comes down to evaluation at this time of year, for the most part, very superficially, people go right to the batting average. You can't do that. You can, but if you're going to be successful, you cannot."

Maddon had no idea what Baez's batting average was prior to Tuesday's game against the Athletics and didn't care.

"I might be the only guy sitting here telling you I'm not concerned with that right now," he said.

Baez's back-to-back homerBaez's back-to-back homer
3/10/15: Javier Baez's home run in the top of the 4th inning is the end of a back-to-back to give the Cubs their second run of the game

In 52 games last season with the Cubs, Baez batted .169 and struck out 95 times in 213 at-bats. Maddon has taken the extra step with the 22-year-old infielder, going to Puerto Rico to watch him play in winter ball. Baez struck out once in the two games Maddon watched.

"If you break him down in other components of his game, he's one of the best young players I've seen," Maddon said. "He's only being judged from the outside by his swings. Think about the rest of his game."

Which is what Maddon is doing as he tries to finalize the Cubs' roster. The manager is a big believer in players who not only produce runs, but save them.

"I come from the land of run prevention, and that's a part of my evaluation process," Maddon said. "When he finally arrives and is consistent, I think there will be that exhale that will permit him to become a better offensive player relatively fast.

"It'd be nice to get 25 finished products. It's not going to happen. I'm not opposed to taking somebody who's not polished and get them to that final level."

Carrie Muskat is a reporter for MLB.com. She writes a blog, Muskat Ramblings, and you can follow her on Twitter @CarrieMuskat. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
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[CSF77]

They need to rid themselves for Jackson.

Wood: 3.77 ERA 1.53 WHIP
Jackson: 7.59 ERA 1.97 WHIP

I've seen enough. Neither are good but Wood was wrecked last year on BB but this spring he has only given up 1. That IMO is a telling sign for him.

 

[CSF77]

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com | @CarrieMuskat | 5:46 PM ET

MESA, Ariz. -- Javier Baez leads the Cubs in strikeouts this spring and is batting less than .150, but if you're only looking at that part of the infielder's game, you're not seeing the whole picture, manager Joe Maddon says.

"Generally speaking, fans are always going to evaluate position players by their batting average," Maddon said Tuesday. "They don't care about their defense, they don't care how well they run the bases, they don't care about any of that stuff.

"When it comes down to evaluation at this time of year, for the most part, very superficially, people go right to the batting average. You can't do that. You can, but if you're going to be successful, you cannot."

Maddon had no idea what Baez's batting average was prior to Tuesday's game against the Athletics and didn't care.

"I might be the only guy sitting here telling you I'm not concerned with that right now," he said.

Baez's back-to-back homerBaez's back-to-back homer
3/10/15: Javier Baez's home run in the top of the 4th inning is the end of a back-to-back to give the Cubs their second run of the game

In 52 games last season with the Cubs, Baez batted .169 and struck out 95 times in 213 at-bats. Maddon has taken the extra step with the 22-year-old infielder, going to Puerto Rico to watch him play in winter ball. Baez struck out once in the two games Maddon watched.

"If you break him down in other components of his game, he's one of the best young players I've seen," Maddon said. "He's only being judged from the outside by his swings. Think about the rest of his game."

Which is what Maddon is doing as he tries to finalize the Cubs' roster. The manager is a big believer in players who not only produce runs, but save them.

"I come from the land of run prevention, and that's a part of my evaluation process," Maddon said. "When he finally arrives and is consistent, I think there will be that exhale that will permit him to become a better offensive player relatively fast.

"It'd be nice to get 25 finished products. It's not going to happen. I'm not opposed to taking somebody who's not polished and get them to that final level."

Carrie Muskat is a reporter for MLB.com. She writes a blog, Muskat Ramblings, and you can follow her on Twitter @CarrieMuskat. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
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I think he needs to get his game together but I believe they want him working with the hitting coach every day. End of the day is they got by for a few years with Barney at 2B. Baez has potential to be more. At Min he brings strong D with the ability to crush a mistake right now.