2020 Rumor Mill

[Granada]

I think it depends on Crawford's asking numbers knowing (a) his play since he got ran the 2nd time (b) his age, and (c) his recent injury history. Of course him wanting to sign is paramount.

I would say no more than 3M max for 1 year and no more than 2.5M for 2 yrs--and 2 years is the max term. That would be on these conditions:

• Lehner doesn't re-sign
• There are no clauses attached
• He is in a role where he's grooming someone line Lankinen, who will get at least 40 games barring an injury. If the 'hawks go FA for a goalie who is established then I'd give it a miss.

What I don't want to see is the 'hawks just running Lankinen/Delia (or similar) next year. I think the 'hawks would be better served if they don't sign Lehner or an established FA netminder is a goalie who would be someone who could help bring a young goalie in who is cheap enough to be on the bench for more than a half of a season and who can help a young netminder deal with the team defense completely bails on them. Crawford is both--as long as the price & term are small and short, and there are no clauses on the deal.

This will sound harsh, but I wouldn't want Crawford even at a million for one year -- it's time to let that ship sail. You can't keep putting the team and his health at risk -- if he wants to do that himself, let him walk. We can't have another situation like we have this year, when you have 10-11 million dollars tied up in 2 goalies and you need to overpay an insurance goalie just to keep Crawford on the team. We need to use those funds to bolster the roster up front, as this team is still an utter train wreck defensively.

Crawford at 3 million would be way too much. He couldn't be relied upon to be the starter this year, why would the Hawks rely on him to be so next year? Essentially, you'd be paying for a 3 million dollar backup.

 

[anotheridiot]

Lehner is a no brainer--I would think 7 for 6 or 8 for 4 would be the going high-end rate for him. Some may argue that's too much, but if you have a goalie who can put up big numbers behind a Timbits™ level defense, that's what the going rate is going to be.

Crawford on the other had does have an albatross or 2 around his neck (specifically his concussion history and his play since), and his age is up there. Much like Keith at this point there should be no future plans made around him whatsoever--even if he's doing a good job. There has to be a changing of the guard soon. Lehner at this point would be the smart answer--if he wants to re-sign. At that point you might as well bring up one of the youth.

What Crawford can give is that vet presence in net if the 'hawks decide it's time to audition Lankinen, Nalimov (can't believe I spaced him) or they want to give Delia another shot as the next starter--specficially if Lehner does not want to re-sign and the 'hawks aren't going to test the trade of FA market for an established netminder with some experience under his belt and is not on the outtro of their career. He would be a decent enough choice as the guy who helps bring them along--and could probably do it as well as any of the FA acquisitions we could bring in if that is the role needed.

In that role--one where he should see no more than half of the starts, you don't want to pay him too much to sit on the bench (ideally, we're not talking the feces-and-rectal-gas-induced hallucinations Bowman the Lesser is suffering due to his head being up his ass and thinking this team as-is is a solid contender). You have to keep the salary reasonable, so there's no way he should get +1 AAV in that role. The going rate for a netminder like that would be about what I said: 3M/1Yr or 2.5/2Yr. Either are low enough to be on the on the bench most of the time. 4 or 3.5, respectively? You're starting to get into low-grade or unestablished starter paychecks there (Think Darling) and IMHO the 'hawks do not need that moving forward.

Their either need a guy like Lehner who can de facto take over the net and put up high numbers behind the worst team D in the league, or they might as well gut the position and bring in an old vet with the intent that they move over if a youngster establishes themselves, and give the youngsters that chance to establish themselves--knowing full well they'll be thrown right into the fire. Anything in-between won't cut it IMHO.

Rask, 7
Fleurry 7
Lindstrom 8.5
Bobrowski 10
Price 10.5
Gibson 6.4
Hellibuck 6.166
Holtby 6.1
Rinne was 7-49, down to 6 this year then 4.

The joke of Ryan Miller, was a big name, took 1.125 to have a job at 39 with Anaheim.

I gotta feel like Lenhar puts him self at least in the Fleurry range. I doubt Crow will consider himself Miller.

 

[LordKOTL]

This will sound harsh, but I wouldn't want Crawford even at a million for one year -- it's time to let that ship sail. You can't keep putting the team and his health at risk -- if he wants to do that himself, let him walk. We can't have another situation like we have this year, when you have 10-11 million dollars tied up in 2 goalies and you need to overpay an insurance goalie just to keep Crawford on the team. We need to use those funds to bolster the roster up front, as this team is still an utter train wreck defensively.

Crawford at 3 million would be way too much. He couldn't be relied upon to be the starter this year, why would the Hawks rely on him to be so next year? Essentially, you'd be paying for a 3 million dollar backup.

Rask, 7
Fleurry 7
Lindstrom 8.5
Bobrowski 10
Price 10.5
Gibson 6.4
Hellibuck 6.166
Holtby 6.1
Rinne was 7-49, down to 6 this year then 4.

The joke of Ryan Miller, was a big name, took 1.125 to have a job at 39 with Anaheim.

I gotta feel like Lenhar puts him self at least in the Fleurry range. I doubt Crow will consider himself Miller.

Did either of you bother to read what I wrote?

If Lehner wants to re-sign, then yes, you cut ties with Crawford and give the backup to the prospect netminder who proves they want it the most by their play on the ice. This by my best guess will be 8M plus: Lehner for around 7M and about 1M for any of our prospect netminders.

If Lehner won't re-sign, then you got 2 choices:

1. Replace Lehner's calibre in net--which will be about the same 8M.
2. Call off the retool, begin the rebuild, and bring in a vet at the close of their career to mentor the youth netminders, and as I mentioned they play no more than 40 games a year. That will cost you somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5M per year, and Crawford falls into that category. Be it Crawford or someone else, they would not be the starter, they would be there to mentor Lankinen, Nalimov, or Delia and be a vet presence (much like Turco was) when our FWD core decides not to play D (since they haven't since 2016) and our D-core is either too old to be effective or decides not to play D (like they've been since 2016).

Option 2 doesn't have to be Crawford, but if he's willing to take that kind of salary (no more than 3M for 1 year or 2.5 for 2) I wouldn't mind him in that role. His play would be limited. And really, splitting the difference you're looking at 4M in net max--him and one of the youths. That wouldn't be handcuffing the team up front, at all. It's actually about how much we were spending in net in 2013.

And if Crawford won't acquiesce of course you cut him loose.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I thought Crawford rounded into remarkable form in the stretch run after his concussion last year. He still has a top form level above the average starting NHL netminder.

 

[Missing Chiclets]

At this point Crawford is not the future. As soon as Lehner is back from the knee they should put together a deal with Carolina to send them Crawford at 50% retained for James Reimer, Trevor Van Riemsdyk and a 1st round pick.

Reimer is signed through next season at 3.4 million and would be a decent backup to Lehner or in a platoon with the young guys. TVR would be a decent band aid for the bottom pairing and is a UFA.

Carolina gets a proven Cup winner and some cap space for additional upgrades and I think Crawford would agree to go to a better defensive team with a shot at making a deep run in the playoffs; which should lead to a better contract next year.

Saad to Boston makes zero sense for The Hawks. If he is traded at all it should be for a D man with potential be a top pairing guy for The Hawks - either offensively or defensively. e.g. to Edmonton for Larsson or to Philly for Gostisbehere. Or how about in a package going back to Columbus for Seth Jones.

When Shaw gets back from injury send him to Boston to get some picks back from that mistake.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Shaw isn't worth his contract, ain't bringing nothing back. Pay to play.

Saad isn't worth his contract, ain't bringing nothing back. Pay to play.

Not sure how you are getting a top pair player from a buying team on a cup run?! Most of those want their star veterans.

Saad only gets traded if we eat half or more of his cap and take back a future pick or young player. Shaw won't bring back dick.

Strome is down now.

Time for Cat-Dach-Kane I suppose.

 

[Tater]

Strome is down now.

Time for Cat-Dach-Kane I suppose.

Yep yep.

 

[LordKOTL]

At this point Crawford is not the future. As soon as Lehner is back from the knee they should put together a deal with Carolina to send them Crawford at 50% retained for James Reimer, Trevor Van Riemsdyk and a 1st round pick.

Reimer is signed through next season at 3.4 million and would be a decent backup to Lehner or in a platoon with the young guys. TVR would be a decent band aid for the bottom pairing and is a UFA.

Carolina gets a proven Cup winner and some cap space for additional upgrades and I think Crawford would agree to go to a better defensive team with a shot at making a deep run in the playoffs; which should lead to a better contract next year.

Saad to Boston makes zero sense for The Hawks. If he is traded at all it should be for a D man with potential be a top pairing guy for The Hawks - either offensively or defensively. e.g. to Edmonton for Larsson or to Philly for Gostisbehere. Or how about in a package going back to Columbus for Seth Jones.

When Shaw gets back from injury send him to Boston to get some picks back from that mistake.

That's if he chooses to waive. I'm not entirely sure he will.

You also have to consider stopgaps. Crawford may not be in the future plans (no more than, say, the second coming of *any* of Bowman's retreads), but he can act as a 1-2 year guy, and then as I mentioned only if the 'hawks are not looking to develop a starter, not bring one in or re-sign Lehner--and not with Crawford as the guy.

IMHO getting Reimer as a backup for Lehner would be the same issue as re-signing Crawford as the backup for Lehner--a lot of of cap on the bench and logjamming the youth. Now, if Lehner is gone and it's effectively a Crawford/Reimer swap and they'd be running youth as a backup/grow into the starter's role, I'm okay with that.

The big problem as I see it is that going into next season we have 45.8M spent on star skaters (read: guys making more than 6M), and as of right now only 10.5M is performing at a superstar level (Kane), 5.538 is performing at a good level (Keith), 12.875 is injured (Saad+Seabrook), and of those 6M was performing at the star level. The rest? Playing miserably (Seabrook, Debrincat--who's 6.4 next year, and Toews).

I'm fine with paying A goalie good money if they are at superstar level--which a guy like Lehner is. They can fill in a lot of the gaps between Kane and everyone else, but it's gotta be that and that alone assuming they don't blow it up in net. Pulling a combo of someone like Lehner and someone like Reimer is a go for it scenario, and in my opinion the 'hawks aren't there--they aren't even close--no matter what kind of Horse-trader act Bowman the Lesser is doing.

 

[Granada]

Did either of you bother to read what I wrote?

If Lehner wants to re-sign, then yes, you cut ties with Crawford and give the backup to the prospect netminder who proves they want it the most by their play on the ice. This by my best guess will be 8M plus: Lehner for around 7M and about 1M for any of our prospect netminders.

If Lehner won't re-sign, then you got 2 choices:

1. Replace Lehner's calibre in net--which will be about the same 8M.
2. Call off the retool, begin the rebuild, and bring in a vet at the close of their career to mentor the youth netminders, and as I mentioned they play no more than 40 games a year. That will cost you somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5M per year, and Crawford falls into that category. Be it Crawford or someone else, they would not be the starter, they would be there to mentor Lankinen, Nalimov, or Delia and be a vet presence (much like Turco was) when our FWD core decides not to play D (since they haven't since 2016) and our D-core is either too old to be effective or decides not to play D (like they've been since 2016).

Option 2 doesn't have to be Crawford, but if he's willing to take that kind of salary (no more than 3M for 1 year or 2.5 for 2) I wouldn't mind him in that role. His play would be limited. And really, splitting the difference you're looking at 4M in net max--him and one of the youths. That wouldn't be handcuffing the team up front, at all. It's actually about how much we were spending in net in 2013.

And if Crawford won't acquiesce of course you cut him loose.

Yup, I read it. Didn't agree with it.

Even if Lehner doesn't want to re-sign, you don't re-sign Crawford, even if it's less to or equal to 3 million for a year.

What I'm saying is, Crawford shouldn't be re-signed under any circumstances.

 

[Granada]

At this point Crawford is not the future. As soon as Lehner is back from the knee they should put together a deal with Carolina to send them Crawford at 50% retained for James Reimer, Trevor Van Riemsdyk and a 1st round pick.

Reimer is signed through next season at 3.4 million and would be a decent backup to Lehner or in a platoon with the young guys. TVR would be a decent band aid for the bottom pairing and is a UFA.

Carolina gets a proven Cup winner and some cap space for additional upgrades and I think Crawford would agree to go to a better defensive team with a shot at making a deep run in the playoffs; which should lead to a better contract next year.

Saad to Boston makes zero sense for The Hawks. If he is traded at all it should be for a D man with potential be a top pairing guy for The Hawks - either offensively or defensively. e.g. to Edmonton for Larsson or to Philly for Gostisbehere. Or how about in a package going back to Columbus for Seth Jones.

When Shaw gets back from injury send him to Boston to get some picks back from that mistake.

I'd be okay with this, but I don't think doubt you get that much for Crawford.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'd be okay with this, but I don't think doubt you get that much for Crawford.

Well our favorite trade partner Coyotes need goalie help now.

Probably depends on his form and if there is a bidding war with a bunch of cup hungry teams who believe.

Phoenix/Toronto/Edmonton/Nashville/SanJose

are just a few teams that should be pounding on our door night and day to increase their chances. San Jose and Phoenix just to get into the dance. The other 3 in my mind would go straight to cup contender status because they can all score goals, and Crow is a magic goalie who performs without defense or poor defense, even thrives in short handed rush situations, allowing their plethora of skill players to push forward and take chances. Those 3 teams in the middle would be nightmares with Crow, imo.

Since when are goalies cheap? 39 year old Ryan Millers corpse?

 

[Granada]

Well our favorite trade partner Coyotes need goalie help now.

Probably depends on his form and if there is a bidding war with a bunch of cup hungry teams who believe.

Phoenix/Toronto/Edmonton/Nashville/SanJose

are just a few teams that should be pounding on our door night and day to increase their chances. San Jose and Phoenix just to get into the dance. The other 3 in my mind would go straight to cup contender status because they can all score goals, and Crow is a magic goalie who performs without defense or poor defense, even thrives in short handed rush situations, allowing their plethora of skill players to push forward and take chances. Those 3 teams in the middle would be nightmares with Crow, imo.

Since when are goalies cheap? 39 year old Ryan Millers corpse?

Never said goalies are cheap necessarily -- I said Crawford wouldn't fetch that much (two NHL-ready players with experience and a 1st round pick). Matt Duchene, for example, fetched 2 prospects and a conditional first round pick. A mid-thirties goalie who has missed substantial time with concussion issues, as recently as last season? Not sure what exactly that would fetch you, but it certainly isn't a first-round pick, let alone the rest.

Crawford's NMC complicates things and limits the teams he would actually go to. I would imagine, if he does want one more chance at the Cup (which isn't a given, he may just want to ride into the sunset, but I digress), it would have to be to a team he thinks has a legitimate shot at it. I doubt he'd go to a team who is simply "in the hunt." We won't know either way until the trade deadline, as I can't see him agreeing to be moved anytime before then.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Never said goalies are cheap necessarily -- I said Crawford wouldn't fetch that much (two NHL-ready players with experience and a 1st round pick). Matt Duchene, for example, fetched 2 prospects and a conditional first round pick. A mid-thirties goalie who has missed substantial time with concussion issues, as recently as last season? Not sure what exactly that would fetch you, but it certainly isn't a first-round pick, let alone the rest.

Crawford's NMC complicates things and limits the teams he would actually go to. I would imagine, if he does want one more chance at the Cup (which isn't a given, he may just want to ride into the sunset, but I digress), it would have to be to a team he thinks has a legitimate shot at it. I doubt he'd go to a team who is simply "in the hunt." We won't know either way until the trade deadline, as I can't see him agreeing to be moved anytime before then.

If moved I think he WILL bring back a first. He is a strong factor that could give legitimate hope to Nashville/Edmonton/Toronto. They each have the offensive firepower to face the big dogs (Boston/Avs/Tampa/Was) if they can cut out some goals.

Not sure how the preds GM guts the defense and then throws the coach under the bus, but Crow could really turn things for them. We traded them Hartman so its not beyond the pale to imagine if we are indeed out of the running.

 

[Granada]

If moved I think he WILL bring back a first. He is a strong factor that could give legitimate hope to Nashville/Edmonton/Toronto. They each have the offensive firepower to face the big dogs (Boston/Avs/Tampa/Was) if they can cut out some goals.

Not sure how the preds GM guts the defense and then throws the coach under the bus, but Crow could really turn things for them. We traded them Hartman so its not beyond the pale to imagine if we are indeed out of the running.

Let me put it this way: if a GM gives up a first for Crawford, that will be one GM Bowman is actually better than. I hope you're right of course, but I just can't see a team willing to take a risk on a guy who couldn't be relied on to be the starter in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. This isn't the Crow of 5 years ago and Nashville has Pekka Rinne anyway, who many other teams would kill for. Like I said though, I'd love it if you're right.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Let me put it this way: if a GM gives up a first for Crawford, that will be one GM Bowman is actually better than. I hope you're right of course, but I just can't see a team willing to take a risk on a guy who couldn't be relied on to be the starter in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. This isn't the Crow of 5 years ago and Nashville has Pekka Rinne anyway, who many other teams would kill for. Like I said though, I'd love it if you're right.

well its a late first and its a high leverage need for the best player on the market.

Somebody is going to need a goalie or think Crow could be the difference if he keeps up his play and sharpens just a bit further which he is capable of.

 

[Raskolnikov]

We need to acquire a forward and a second pairing guy, then put Murphy with Keith.

The forward needs to play with Dach-Kampf...so shooting-skill/speed would be the best assets in a target.

Add the Vegas Knights to the list of teams that should want Crow or Lehner.

They should still have alot of depth somewhere no? Suppan has really been letting them down and they want more help for Fleury, short(crow) and long term(lehner).

Take Coyotes off list with Raanta returned, and Kuemper nearing return.

Knights/Predators/Toronto/Rangers/Sharks/Canadiens/Edmonton/Flyers

seem to be the list of teams that should be beating down our door for various reasons. Gotta be somebody willing to overpay in there. Apparently the Canadiens and us have been working on something.

Could it be a Gus/Crow package deal? They have been scouting our roster and rockford extensively so could be multiple players each way.

 

[puterwiz53]

Teams will definitely be calling about one of the goaltenders. Hopefully Lehner gets resigned and Crawford traded. Crawford will bring back an above decent return because of the biddin war that will happen. How many other decent goalies will be available at the deadline? Very few and far between. Crawford has been playing better but not quite up to his true form but am sure is a player many teams are eyeing and are going to make an offer for.

 

[blackpep72]

Crow has been great for the Hawks but its time for a change. I really hope Lehner will stay after this season.

 

[Tater]

Crow has been great for the Hawks but its time for a change. I really hope Lehner will stay after this season.

From his interview last game in the pre, it sounds like he is looking elsewhere unfortunately. Can't blame him if he does.

 

[anotheridiot]

From his interview last game in the pre, it sounds like he is looking elsewhere unfortunately. Can't blame him if he does.

No, I dont see it as looking elsewhere, he expects to be paid as a great one, and that rate now is 10 million, or basically what we are paying both now.

I thought this would be a one year deal and Nalimov was coming hard. Now it seems all the prospects are thought of as our in house D men replacements who might have nice AHL careers.