3 rebounds in 82 minutes...

[AirP]

That's what our SG and SF gave us in the rebounding department in game 2, toss in Rose's 6 and Chicagos PG, SG and SF were out rebounded by 9 to 23 by Boston's PG, SG and SF.

IF you take away the starting PG,SG and SFs... Chicago's rebounding equals Boston's 27-27.

I understand, Boston's bigs got some rebounds they shouldn't of... but my god, it wasn't our bigs who cost us the game because of the rebounds, it was the PG, SG and SF positions. They out rebounded our counterparts by 14... FOURTEEN!

 

[Fred]

I'm not completely sure if you're blaming the loss on our guards and small forward for not rebounding, but I would have to disagree with you. Our shooting guard was 14-24 from the field. Hit hit 6 3's. He was guarding Ray Allen, who was shooting most from 15+.

I agree that Rondo killed us on the boards. But again, the Celtics had 21 offensive rebounds. Perkins had 7 of them. We had 8 as a team. That's not the fault of our guards and small forward.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=287944
Celtics' 2nd-chance points key factor
By Mike McGraw | Daily Herald StaffContact writerPublished: 4/20/2009 11:25 PMSend To:

BOSTON - Funny how the Bulls' big men could collect a franchise playoff-record 14 blocked shots in Monday's Game 2 against the Celtics and still have a bad night.

The Bulls were punished on the offensive glass, giving up 21 offensive rebounds and getting outscored 32-12 in second-chance points.

"Rebounding was really the difference," Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro said.

The task facing the Bulls obviously difficult. Boston's starting big men, Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis, are thick, muscular wide-bodies who are tough to move out of the way. Perkins and point guard Rajon Rondo collected 7 offensive boards each.

"They're athletic, but I think we've got the strength down low," Perkins said. "I think we've just got to be more physical, you know, hit them before they jump."

"It's the NBA," countered Bulls center Brad Miller. "We did a good job in the first game and were able to come out with the win. So it's going to be a key to everything, I think."

Miller led the Bulls with 9 rebounds, while Noah grabbed 8. In the blocked-shot column, Tyrus Thomas had 6 and Noah 4. It's possible the Bulls blocked too many shots, because several rejections bounced to Boston players for easy baskets.

"That's the thing about blocking shots," Noah said. "There's a positive if you get it and start the break. But they're getting offensive rebounds off blocks and we're out of position, then it's not an advantage. They probably got at least 4 or 5 of those tonight. What do you do, say 'don't block shots?'

"We got outworked on the glass and that's never a good feeling. We've just got to come ready. That was probably the difference in the game, their second-chance points."

 

[dougthonus]

I agree that Rondo killed us on the boards. But again, the Celtics had 21 offensive rebounds. Perkins had 7 of them. We had 8 as a team. That's not the fault of our guards and small forward.

Their guards had 9 of the 21 offensive rebounds. I think Airp makes a very good point.

According to Yahoo's box score:
Our bigs 21 boards
Their bigs 24 boards

Our guards/wings 13 boards
Their guards/wings 26 boards

I don't see how you can put all the blame on our big men. Perkins had 7 offensive rebounds, but so did Rondo. Which one of those is the bigger issue? Perkins is at the basket and has a huge physical strength advantage over the man guarding him. Some balls are going to go his way.

Rondo isn't as strong as Rose and should be on the perimeter. Him getting 7 offensive rebounds shows extraordinarily poor effort in attempting to stop him from getting them by whomever is guarding him (primarily Rose), or a coach who isn't dedicated to trying to keep Rondo off the boards because he's trying to run. We gamble that we get the defensive board and an easy fast break, they gamble they get an offensive board and an easy score.

Either way, looking at where the rebounding numbers came from it doesn't seem like our big men were the primary culprits.

 

[AirP]

Fred wrote:

I'm not completely sure if you're blaming the loss on our guards and small forward for not rebounding, but I would have to disagree with you. Our shooting guard was 14-24 from the field. Hit hit 6 3's. He was guarding Ray Allen, who was shooting most from 15+.

I agree that Rondo killed us on the boards. But again, the Celtics had 21 offensive rebounds. Perkins had 7 of them. We had 8 as a team. That's not the fault of our guards and small forward.

No, I'm not blaming this loss on our guards, but my god, our 1-3 were out rebounded by 14... that's FOURTEEN extra possessions they got which probably accounts for 10-14 points itself. So to me that's a pretty substantial to the outcome of the game and it shouldn't have happened. Please try to argue how being out rebounded by 14 at the PG,SG and SF position had very little to do with the outcome of this game. The rebounding by our SG and SF was FAR WORSE then our rebounding by our bigs. Had Gordon just pulled down his average in rebounds Chicago would have been up 2-0 in this series.

By the way... Game 3... I'd be cutting down Salmon's minutes if he can't rebound and score because of the injury and using Hinrich more. Hinrich does a solid job on Pierce.

 

[dougthonus]

By the way... Game 3... I'd be cutting down Salmon's minutes if he can't rebound and score because of the injury and using Hinrich more. Hinrich does a solid job on Pierce.

I agree, I would have liked to see more Hinrich in game 2, but he had 4 fouls in the first half, so that limited him somewhat. Still, he finished the game with 4 fouls which means we could have used him more than we did.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

By the way... Game 3... I'd be cutting down Salmon's minutes if he can't rebound and score because of the injury and using Hinrich more. Hinrich does a solid job on Pierce.

I agree, I would have liked to see more Hinrich in game 2, but he had 4 fouls in the first half, so that limited him somewhat. Still, he finished the game with 4 fouls which means we could have used him more than we did.

Or atleast use him as much as we could till he fouled out, it would have given Salmon's injury some needed rest. An injury like that you have to pick your spots, you can't just go all out the whole time with that type of pain that it causes.

 

[dougthonus]

I had a groin injury playing racquetball once. I don't know if it was a sprain, a strain, or whatever, because I didn't go to the doctor, but it hurt something terrible and didn't go away until I did basically nothing for 2 full months.

When I tried to play sports through it initially, I was so extraordinarily tentative because as soon as I really tried to make a hard lateral move I felt a ton of shooting pain. There's no way on this earth I could have played basketball with it.

 

[Fred]

Has Pierce hurt us? Not really, IMO. I can't believe Salmons is out there, frankly. I had a groin injury once too, and I had as much lateral quickness as a door, which is slightly more than I have now. My only problem with Salmons has been his shot selection, which was atrocious in Game 1.

The Hinrich fans will deny this, but Kirk isn't great at getting through screens. It's not his fault...he's 190 on paper, 175 in reality. I'd rather see him on Pierce, as long as he doesn't try to guard him at half-court, which only leads to Pierce coming off a pick and the big guys having to try and pick him up.

 

[cool007]

We should have played Tim Thomas at 2 or 3 spot and rebounding wouldn't be a problem.

I partly agree that it was guard's fault (Rose/Hinrich) for letting Rondo get offensive rebounds but it's not like Rondo was all over the boards in the 2nd half (he only had like 3 offensive rebounds) but they were all tip out by Perkins - so technically it was Perkins who rebounded those.

Also our bigs were blocking out but were either too underneath the baskets or the balls were too far for them to reach. Not to mention the ball was just finding its way to Celtics players - as they were in the right place at the right time.

These things happen but I want to see that Bulls make sure that it doesn't happen again. We need ALL FIVE guys to step up and box out and rebound. I want all 5 white jerseys (at home) in the paint and rebound.

I think Bulls were just too concerned with running game and getting guards out. It kind of did work. How many times Gordon got an open shot in transition or running out early.

 

[Fred]

BTW, the fact that Pierce hasn't hurt us is why I'm not high on our chances. He will, just like Allen, get on track before this series is over.

 

[cool007]

Fred wrote:

BTW, the fact that Pierce hasn't hurt us is why I'm not high on our chances. He will, just like Allen, get on track before this series is over.

If Pierce gets going than Allen won't. I have seen many many celtics games and usually when Pierce is hot, Allen doesn't have a good game. Coz usually when Pierce has big games, they iso him a LOT. If we don't double much or leave Allen open much, He will hardly see the ball.

yesterday, they were EXCLUSIVELY running double screens for him so he can get a shot off. If Allen has to go off, they have to focus SOLELY on that coz if Bulls don't leave him open, he doesn't get good shots.

IMO, if Pierce gets off, I think we win by 10+ coz that means others are standing and watching him.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Last night was a game where a healthy Deng really would've been a huge help, because he could've matched Salmons' D on Pierce and almost certainly would've gotten more than those two boards Salmons got.

 

[AirP]

dougthonus wrote:

I had a groin injury playing racquetball once. I don't know if it was a sprain, a strain, or whatever, because I didn't go to the doctor, but it hurt something terrible and didn't go away until I did basically nothing for 2 full months.

When I tried to play sports through it initially, I was so extraordinarily tentative because as soon as I really tried to make a hard lateral move I felt a ton of shooting pain. There's no way on this earth I could have played basketball with it.

You can play basketball with a groin injury, it sucks though and like I said, you pick your spots because you don't want to be hurting the whole time out there... so you will go easy as much as you think you can get away with(which leads to not much rebounding since that's got alot to do with desire and hustle). If Deng were available I don't think we'd see much of Salmons out there.

 

[J-Mart]

Good points AirP. Rondo and their guards really made the difference hitting the boards. Rondo absolutely killed us there, its inexcusable. I don't care that Rose is a rookie, he is smarter than more than half the players on this team, there is no reason Rose should not be putting a body on Rondo especially considering his size advantage. I think after game one the Rose is a rookie excuse needs to stop, he showed that he is not a rookie anymore and is on a completely different level. So we need to start treating him as such.

 

[chi_hawks_23]

I don't know if anybody else mentioned this, but we were slow to the ball too. Boston was clanging the sh*t out of their shots, and thus, the ball was flying all over the place, often times 15 feet in one direction. Our bigs seemed to be in decent positin down low for a rebound, but often that ball would bounce and just sit there until of course, a Celtic would come pick it up and put up another jumper. Idk who's responsibility it is to get those loose balls, but we just weren't in position to pick any of those up....ever.

Has anybody else noticed how effing slow Brad Miller looks right now. I mean, I know he is slow and old, but sh*t....a couple times he has gotten lapped by the boston bigs...and they are pretty slow too.

 

[Syxx]

Many of the rebounds that were painful to watch were the long rebounds we couldn't come up with. We'd have good positioning at the basket, but with as many perimeter shots both teams were taking, long rebounds were happening too often. Boston benefited from a combination of lucky bounces/being in the right place at the right time, and out hustling us to the ball. The majority of Rondo's rebounds were ones he simply ran down. The Bulls were not getting good reads or angles on the long rebounds.

That's just my read on things.

 

[Shakes]

The rebounding wasn't great, but without Deng we don't exactly have a lot of height or rebounding in our 1-2-3 rotation. Add to that that Salmons' groin probably hampers his mobility in chasing down balls. So on a night where the Celtics shots seemed to be bouncing out for long rebounds, something like this is going to happen. Besides, at the end of the 4th the Celtics seemed to have the ball on a string, every missed shot seemed to bounce towards one of their players. That's sometimes the luck of a small sample size.

 

[Hendu0520]

I hope that our genius coaching staff knows those stats and makes the proper adjustments to get them to rebound, they are capable. Skaks is right though the Celtics had a lot of luck on there side in that game.

 

[maq25060]

Fred wrote:

The Hinrich fans will deny this, but Kirk isn't great at getting through screens. It's not his fault...he's 190 on paper, 175 in reality. I'd rather see him on Pierce, as long as he doesn't try to guard him at half-court, which only leads to Pierce coming off a pick and the big guys having to try and pick him up.

why must everything be hinrich fan this or hinrich drones that with you? the way you alienate people...it's disturbing

 

[dougthonus]

You can play basketball with a groin injury, it sucks though and like I said, you pick your spots because you don't want to be hurting the whole time out there... so you will go easy as much as you think you can get away with(which leads to not much rebounding since that's got alot to do with desire and hustle). If Deng were available I don't think we'd see much of Salmons out there.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was skeptical that Salmons had a groin injury or anything. I meant to just say that it's extremely difficult to play like you normally would through such an injury, and that lateral movement and anything explosive is just terrible.