5 years ago today Bill Wirtz passed

[cplmac]

I wouldn't root for his death but if he were still alive we would still be waiting to win the cup. Doesn't seem like 5 years really.

 

[Variable]

I think they were going to win the Cup if he lived or died. But I don't know about those contracts that have been given out to Keith, Kane, Seabroook and Toews.

 

[daze71]

I think they were going to win the Cup if he lived or died. But I don't know about those contracts that have been given out to Keith, Kane, Seabroook and Toews.

Have to agree about the second part of what you said it was unwillingness to sign players long term is what alienated him from fans.

 

[R K]

I wouldn't root for his death but if he were still alive we would still be waiting to win the cup. Doesn't seem like 5 years really.

I completely disagree with this.



If not for him allowing Peter and Tallon to build the team, giving them money post lockout, you wouldn't have had a Cup. Rocky and Mcdonough had ZERO do to with that Cup. It was coming whether they were here or not. Unfortunately for the Old man he didn't have the time left to see it. Things work in mysterious ways.



And I disagree with Daze, it was his unwillingness to put them on TV that alienated him from the fans. No question.

 

[daze71]

I completely disagree with this.



If not for him allowing Peter and Tallon to build the team, giving them money post lockout, you wouldn't have had a Cup. Rocky and Mcdonough had ZERO do to with that Cup. It was coming whether they were here or not. Unfortunately for the Old man he didn't have the time left to see it. Things work in mysterious ways.



And I disagree with Daze, it was his unwillingness to put them on TV that alienated him from the fans. No question.

You are right R K i brain farted and forgot to put that in my post. I am also trying to keep an eye on my 10mo old baby girl.

 

[cplmac]

RK you certainly have the inside track, as an outside fan I just don't see him every bringing the Hawks to a cup. For almost 5 decades he couldn't get it done, it's hard to get past that.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

It's all subjective.

No one knows, and no one will know.

Did WWW have a hand in it? Sure. If he was around in 2010 would they have raised the cup? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[R K]

RK you certainly have the inside track, as an outside fan I just don't see him every bringing the Hawks to a cup. For almost 5 decades he couldn't get it done, it's hard to get past that.

Well part of that had to do with two other teams. One named the Oilers and Gretzky and the other the Penguins and Yagr-Lemuix. For the last decade, I agree he allowed people to run the team into the ground, BUT I do believe he figured it out and HIS TEAM, you watched win the Cup. That I have no doubt it.



I didn't always agree with him on many levels, but that said, knowing him a little, I'd much rather have him here than the two that are now. Just IMO is all. I understand the angst but some of it is just over the top from folks who just never met the man and are going off hearsay, media, ect, ect.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

I think they were going to win the Cup if he lived or died. But I don't know about those contracts that have been given out to Keith, Kane, Seabroook and Toews.

He was around for Khabbi's contract. I remember the reactions when he signed in Chicago. None of us could believe WWW opened his wallet to nab a cup winning netminder.

 

[R K]

He was around for Khabbi's contract. I remember the reactions when he signed in Chicago. None of us could believe WWW opened his wallet to nab a cup winning netminder.

Khabi, Aucoin, Cullimore, Havlat and many more. He spent a lot of money. Unfortunately that first year out of the lockout had Pulford written all over it. From that year on Pulford was pushed aside, another reason i think he really started to figure it out.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Khabi, Aucoin, Cullimore, Havlat and many more. He spent a lot of money. Unfortunately that first year out of the lockout had Pulford written all over it. From that year on Pulford was pushed aside, another reason i think he really started to figure it out.

Exactly.

He would have spent the money on the "core."

It's the supporting pieces that come into the subjective argument (Madden, etc.).

 

[R K]

Exactly.

He would have spent the money on the "core."

It's the supporting pieces that come into the subjective argument (Madden, etc.).

Hell they paid for writing off Brown until the year of the Cup in Cap hit I believe.

 

[ericthered]

What did Peter do though? What was his role?

Peter owned and ran Bismarck which was the vendor for the UC before Rocky/McD replaced it with Levvy.



Peter was always at press conferences towards the end of his father's life, and it appeared he was being groomed to handle the day-to-day ownership responsibilities, at least that's how it appeared. I don't think anyone outside the family or their inner circle knew at the time that the will passed the ownership on to Rocky and not Peter.



Moreover, I don't think us fans knew that Rocky would not include Peter in the operation of the team. There obviously was some fallout between Rocky and his siblings over the estate at some point. I don't know what ever came of that court case that was referenced earlier in the thread. I suppose someone could look it up.



I think for a period of time Peter was viewed as one of the voices trying to sway his dad to put games on tv and be more fan friendly.



It just didn't happen.

 

[PatrickShart]

The old man was also around when signing Gilmour



He also "ok'd" the offersheet to Tkachuk - which at the time made Keith the 3rd highest paid player in the league. Hawks also offer-sheeted Gratton (thank god for the "smudge")...but still, threw money his way.

 

[Variable]

Peter owned and ran Bismarck which was the vendor for the UC before Rocky/McD replaced it with Levvy.



Peter was always at press conferences towards the end of his father's life, and it appeared he was being groomed to handle the day-to-day ownership responsibilities, at least that's how it appeared. I don't think anyone outside the family or their inner circle knew at the time that the will passed the ownership on to Rocky and not Peter.



Moreover, I don't think us fans knew that Rocky would not include Peter in the operation of the team. There obviously was some fallout between Rocky and his siblings over the estate at some point. I don't know what ever came of that court case that was referenced earlier in the thread. I suppose someone could look it up.



I think for a period of time Peter was viewed as one of the voices trying to sway his dad to put games on tv and be more fan friendly.



It just didn't happen.

People were saying that he had played a part in building the Cup team, that's what I was curious about.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

blah blah blah everyone shut up



doesnt matter who was in charge, the hawks (with that team) were going to win regardless.

 

[ericthered]

People were saying that he had played a part in building the Cup team, that's what I was curious about.

I guess it depends on your definition of building a Cup team. Does building a Cup team occur with the people who have direct imput on staff and player decisions or indirect impact?



Is it isolated to the owner, GM, scouting department, head coach & his assistants, minor league staff, etc...or is it broader? The broader aspect is one I'm sure Rocky, Mcdonough, Blunk, and members of the current regime feel play a key role with their off-ice actions that impact the hockey team.



It's all perspective.



Peter wasn't the GM. He probably had input in ticket pricing, marketing (he was the actual marketing head when the UC opened), and a lot of those aspects while with the team. For a brief period he became more visible than Bill right around the time of the last lockout. He was an alternate governor, something Rocky's done as well on the NHL board of governors.



When Bill got older did Peter have a greater role or impact on the day to day hockey ops? Only he and the people in that room know for sure. Did Peter ok hirings? I don't know in his role as VP of the Hawks what came under his job description. Same thing with budgets for free agents, scouting staff, etc..I think there was a perception that Peter would've been just as "forward-thinking" as Rocky has been on things like the TV, and attempting to be more fan friendly.



It's clear Rocky has raised prices for several years, and he's admitted he's trying to make up for lost years in that regard. Would Peter have done the same? Only he knows, we can speculate but that's all it really is.

 

[R K]

You answered it eric I wasn't going to.



Towards the end as Bills health was failing Peter had a more enhanced role. While certainly not the GM most definitely in on decisions regarding any monies.



Amazing how quickly Bismark was sold off and Levy stepped in. Taking everything vending wise a step back in my opinion. From the Funeral on it was clear who was in charge and who was left holding the empty bag. For better or worse in many instances.



And it was Peter that pushed Pulford away in my opinion. Huge step in making that team successful.



As for the TV issue I don't know that it would have happened as quickly but do believe it would have happened. Only a guess and perception on my part from where I sat watching what transpired for years and years. Much closer than most I suspect.

 

[R K]

The old man was also around when signing Gilmour



He also "ok'd" the offersheet to Tkachuk - which at the time made Keith the 3rd highest paid player in the league. Hawks also offer-sheeted Gratton (thank god for the "smudge")...but still, threw money his way.

And Fleury. It wasn't he didn't spend money, it was they didn't spend it correctly.