[A] How simplicity could help the Chicago Blackhawks

[BlackHawkPaul]

If you go back to game 4 of the SCF, Q made some significant changes near the end of that game-- he shook up the lines and split up 88 and 19. It forced the Flyers to pick which line to ice their top line against. It proved beneficial. The Hawks were outplayed all game until the early 3rd and then made it a game.

Fast forward to game 5. Pronger melts down, hawks net 7.

Yes, the team was amazingly deep that SC year. To say anyone could have coached them to a cup is silly.

I'm not going to give Q a complete pass because he had some monsters in St. Louis (one of the best blue lines ever in Macinnis and Pronger) that had the ability to bring home a cup, yet he only got to one WCF.

 

[klemmer]

Pretty much how I feel.



Until Q puts in losing seasons and really starts losing his players (which he has not accept in the minds of some fans) there is no reason to even think about a coaching change or to point fingers at our coaching. Those are some amazing stats for a coach. Has coaching a very talented team helped? Of course it has. Have coaches in the past failed miserably with talented teams? YES!!! Nothing Q has done to this point behind the bench can be seen as a failure in my opinion. Nothing.



Our GM Dale Tallon has given Q a lot to work with but has also left him holes to work with. Q has done a good job with what he has. The line mixing can be frustrating..god knows I could use some STK line more often, would like to see Bolland get a longer boute at the #2 center slot, and would like the defensive pairings consistant more often than not... but at the same time I understand what Q is trying to do with balancing. It's not a crazy idea. Had this team had more center depth kane would never had been used there. If this club had more LW depth strange line combos would be down less.

Get it right,

 

[R K]

While Sharp out and Toews out do hurt the D, they're not the issue. IMHO the pressing team issue right now is Leddy and Hammer not been able to hold their own line consistantly (they seem to be bad 50% of the time, or worse). That really has to change especially with the ice time Leddy is getting. Not all of that can be blamed on Dr. Craw.



IMHO while some simplicity in the back end is needed, I think right now maybe going back to Keith/Leddy and Seabrook/Hammer might not be a bad idea (although I'd prefer Keith/Hammer and Seabrook/Leddy, but handedness might be an issue). It might calm thingsa down back there.

Alot of the time it's not neccessarily the D, it's the "team defense". Yes they are two different things.



Seabrook has probably been this teams most consistant D man all year. I don't think there's a question. Keith started out shakey but when Q finally put them back together he strangely started to get back to the "old" keith. Montedor was out for several games, that meant they must give Leddy more minutes. I'm not sure who remembers what Keith looked like in his 2nd year, but Leddy's game, with that many minutes, is very similar.



I would go on a limb and say it's more team defense like TJD has suggested many times, more so than the specific Defense. Now on some nights sure, it's clearly defense, but that works on the offensive side too, in those few games they don't score.



They win and lose as a team.



I think alot of us have questioned Q from time to time. He was on some EXTREMELY stacked teams and never won anything, but you know what, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season here.



They win games when they play as a team. When they don't they don't. Is that coaching, or individual players? What other circumstances fit in? It's not all black and white. There is no ONE answer.



Again I go back to how good do you think this team should be? Should they be 10 points ahead of the pack? Ahead of the other Elite teams in the league? No, they are right where they should be. Within GAMES of all the other Elite teams.



6th place my ass. It says fucking nothing when you are talking about 1-2-3 points. It says the Western Conference Elite teams are damn good is what is says.

 

[R K]

If you go back to game 4 of the SCF, Q made some significant changes near the end of that game-- he shook up the lines and split up 88 and 19. It forced the Flyers to pick which line to ice their top line against. It proved beneficial. The Hawks were outplayed all game until the early 3rd and then made it a game.

Fast forward to game 5. Pronger melts down, hawks net 7.

Yes, the team was amazingly deep that SC year. To say anyone could have coached them to a cup is silly.

I'm not going to give Q a complete pass because he had some monsters in St. Louis (one of the best blue lines ever in Macinnis and Pronger) that had the ability to bring home a cup, yet he only got to one WCF.

I agree and disagree with this. Q had a guy named Scotty Bowman ringing in his ear. Those changes came directly from SB, no question. That said one of my big beefs with Q is that he coaches a style that doesn't allow for suggestions. It's a "My way or the highway" type mentality.



Thank god Bowman "suggested" some things and Q reacted as who knows what happens if they don't mix it up there.



It's why I have to laugh when someone throws out Kitchen or Havi under the bus for the PP or PK. When they do that you can tell they truely don't understand how Q coaches.

 

[R K]

Get it right,

I think we are almost to the point where you have to start working Stan in there. There are enough players not Tallons now that they win and lose on those compliments, which are surrounding the core. If this makes sense.

 

[MassHavoc]

Seems we can have threads without insults and cockheadedness...

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Seems we can have threads without insults and cockheadedness...

Seems like inanity is still here though.

 

[LordKOTL]

Alot of the time it's not neccessarily the D, it's the "team defense". Yes they are two different things.



Seabrook has probably been this teams most consistant D man all year. I don't think there's a question. Keith started out shakey but when Q finally put them back together he strangely started to get back to the "old" keith. Montedor was out for several games, that meant they must give Leddy more minutes. I'm not sure who remembers what Keith looked like in his 2nd year, but Leddy's game, with that many minutes, is very similar.



I would go on a limb and say it's more team defense like TJD has suggested many times, more so than the specific Defense. Now on some nights sure, it's clearly defense, but that works on the offensive side too, in those few games they don't score.



They win and lose as a team.



I think alot of us have questioned Q from time to time. He was on some EXTREMELY stacked teams and never won anything, but you know what, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season here.



They win games when they play as a team. When they don't they don't. Is that coaching, or individual players? What other circumstances fit in? It's not all black and white. There is no ONE answer.



Again I go back to how good do you think this team should be? Should they be 10 points ahead of the pack? Ahead of the other Elite teams in the league? No, they are right where they should be. Within GAMES of all the other Elite teams.



6th place my ass. It says fucking nothing when you are talking about 1-2-3 points. It says the Western Conference Elite teams are damn good is what is says.

I agree with just about everything--especially in that it's not just two guys, it's the whole team. However, I've noticed that it seems that Leddy and Hammer seem lost out there more often than not--like they both need someone else to "lead" the pairing. It may benefit the team to put them with a vet presence (at least in key moments) so that some pressure is taken off of Crawford/Emery. And yeah, it doesn't help that we're missing Toews and Sharp.



I'm not giving up the ship in the least, but I think it would be foolish to rigidly "stay the course" without a few adjustments here and there. I think it's not too far out of line to think that an adjustment could be putting Leddy and Hammer part-time with another partner who's been there and done that in key moments.

 

[the canadian dream]

Q also did an amazing job with buff in the cup year. Not only on the ice but off it also. When he didn't allow buff to talk to the media in the canuck series it was mental battle won. Had buff been allowed to yap like he wanted to it could have been a huge negative.



As for that Nashville series. Yah h awks almost lost game 6 and the preds almost forced a game 7. So? Who has said the preds aren't a good team? They also gave the canucks a pretty tough 6 game series last year also and eliminated an offensive giant ducks team. They will give any team They meet this year a tough series also. Its the playoffs...expect the unexpected. that same year the habs went on a tare in the eastern conference playoffs. No one expected that. Shit happens in the Nhl playoffs...there are countless examples. Its why the playoffs are so amazing. If things were always to pan out how the majority predict then why watch a single game?



The argument that the hawks barely got by the preds doesn't hold much water. Even had they gone 7 games who knows what happens. The fact that they won the way they won speaks volumes about that entire season and the character the team had...its still there.

 

[MassHavoc]

Q also did an amazing job with buff in the cup year. Not only on the ice but off it also. When he didn't allow buff to talk to the media in the canuck series it was mental battle won. Had buff been allowed to yap like he wanted to it could have been a huge negative.



As for that Nashville series. Yah h awks almost lost game 6 and the preds almost forced a game 7. So? Who has said the preds aren't a good team? They also gave the canucks a pretty tough 6 game series last year also and eliminated an offensive giant ducks team. They will give any team They meet this year a tough series also. Its the playoffs...expect the unexpected. that same year the habs went on a tare in the eastern conference playoffs. No one expected that. Shit happens in the Nhl playoffs...there are countless examples. Its why the playoffs are so amazing. If things were always to pan out how the majority predict then why watch a single game?



The argument that the hawks barely got by the preds doesn't hold much water. Even had they gone 7 games who knows what happens. The fact that they won the way they won speaks volumes about that entire season and the character the team had...its still there.

Thank god it's not the NFL, he would have been fined for that.

 

[R K]

I agree with just about everything--especially in that it's not just two guys, it's the whole team. However, I've noticed that it seems that Leddy and Hammer seem lost out there more often than not--like they both need someone else to "lead" the pairing. It may benefit the team to put them with a vet presence (at least in key moments) so that some pressure is taken off of Crawford/Emery. And yeah, it doesn't help that we're missing Toews and Sharp.



I'm not giving up the ship in the least, but I think it would be foolish to rigidly "stay the course" without a few adjustments here and there. I think it's not too far out of line to think that an adjustment could be putting Leddy and Hammer part-time with another partner who's been there and done that in key moments.

I agreee, I just think all this "over analyzing" is quite comical from where this team has come. Esepcially from last year to this. My suggestion is to stop with the knee jerk reactions and or arm chair GMing and let them play the 82 games. Teams are going to have bad nights and good nights. Bad stretches and good stretches. Could they have a few more points, sure, but on the fip side they could have a few less as well.



Every GOOD team can say the same thing. If this team played more like "Nashville" I'd NEVER buy a ticket, as they are boring and will NEVER be successful in the playoffs, playing that style. Never. Not enough scoring punch.

 

[MassHavoc]

Sweet jesus RK, the doc give you a new prescription? Nice to see the Go **** Yourself left in the case.



PS, forgot to mention that I agree with what you said above.

 

[R K]

I like the go **** yourself. Most times it was just in jest. Only a few times did it have the intended meaning! As for the meds, I'm in the fucking office!

 

[MassHavoc]

I like the go **** yourself. Most times it was just in jest. Only a few times did it have the intended meaning! As for the meds, I'm in the fucking office!

Me too, just makes me need them more!

 

[R K]

Me too, just makes me need them more!

watching the RedWings get the shit smacked out of them without their Captain the other night says it all. Maybe they should trade Howard for Miller. Or maybe Babcock should simplify their game. Hell he has the same amount of Cups Q has.



Funny I read lets go wings and I don't see their fans writing such silly things. Could be because their bandwagon started in 97 who knows. Either way just relax and enjoy the hockey. They won the fucking Cup after 49 years, most or a majority of us die hards waited all our life for it. I'm good for at least another decade as long as they are competative, which they most clearly are.



Side note the other weekend when we played the Wings Milbury said neither the Wings, nor the Hawks were elite teams on air. Then the other night, "it's strange to see an elite team show up like this". Really. He should go back to beating up little kids on the ice.

 

[Ashor-redtribe]

watching the RedWings get the shit smacked out of them without their Captain the other night says it all. Maybe they should trade Howard for Miller. Or maybe Babcock should simplify their game. Hell he has the same amount of Cups Q has.



Funny I read lets go wings and I don't see their fans writing such silly things. Could be because their bandwagon started in 97 who knows. Either way just relax and enjoy the hockey. They won the fucking Cup after 49 years, most or a majority of us die hards waited all our life for it. I'm good for at least another decade as long as they are competative, which they most clearly are.



Side note the other weekend when we played the Wings Milbury said neither the Wings, nor the Hawks were elite teams on air. Then the other night, "it's strange to see an elite team show up like this". Really. He should go back to beating up little kids on the ice.

Milbury also said after the game last week that if the Hawks want to win the cup, Kane has to find his grove, it all comes down to him.

 

[MassHavoc]

watching the RedWings get the shit smacked out of them without their Captain the other night says it all. Maybe they should trade Howard for Miller. Or maybe Babcock should simplify their game. Hell he has the same amount of Cups Q has.



Funny I read lets go wings and I don't see their fans writing such silly things. Could be because their bandwagon started in 97 who knows. Either way just relax and enjoy the hockey. They won the fucking Cup after 49 years, most or a majority of us die hards waited all our life for it. I'm good for at least another decade as long as they are competative, which they most clearly are.



Side note the other weekend when we played the Wings Milbury said neither the Wings, nor the Hawks were elite teams on air. Then the other night, "it's strange to see an elite team show up like this". Really. He should go back to beating up little kids on the ice.

I think a lot of the over reaction pertaining to every little thing on this team is the fact that we all deep down know how honestly good this team is. And we also know from being there that their are so many uncontrollable little things that need to fall into line correctly in order to win the cup. So we latch on to all those little things and try to erase them to ease our worries. At the end of the day I think the team as is has just as good a shot as any other team out there as is, at winning the cup. But there are a lot of things that could be tweaked to help the chances. I feel like everyone thinks we are just a tweak or two away, but all those tweaks keep getting compiled and added upon to make it look like a collective "OH SHIT WE HAVE TO FIX THIS" when in all honesty the fixes are all minor.

 

[R K]

Milbury also said after the game last week that if the Hawks want to win the cup, Kane has to find his grove, it all comes down to him.

It does not all come down to Kane and that comment along with the "elite" comment shows why Milbury is a fucking moron.

 

[R K]

I think a lot of the over reaction pertaining to every little thing on this team is the fact that we all deep down know how honestly good this team is. And we also know from being there that their are so many uncontrollable little things that need to fall into line correctly in order to win the cup. So we latch on to all those little things and try to erase them to ease our worries. At the end of the day I think the team as is has just as good a shot as any other team out there as is, at winning the cup. But there are a lot of things that could be tweaked to help the chances. I feel like everyone thinks we are just a tweak or two away, but all those tweaks keep getting compiled and added upon to make it look like a collective "OH SHIT WE HAVE TO FIX THIS" when in all honesty the fixes are all minor.

The fixes or adjustments usually happen on their own. The Central division is tuff. Two of those teams are probably going to face each other in the first round. I agree with you and they play 82 games for a reason.

 

[MassHavoc]

The fixes or adjustments usually happen on their own. The Central division is tuff. Two of those teams are probably going to face each other in the first round. I agree with you and they play 82 games for a reason.

Yeah, I keep fucking dreading the fact that the hawks might have to face another central division team in the first round. It's not that I don't think they can take them, it's that I feel like two teams that know each other that well kind of level the playing field. It works both way of course but some of the things become more of a coin toss, it becomes much grittier and WHEN the hawks win they have had a much tougher batter going into the second round. But again these are just thoughts rolling around in my head. AND IT BETTER NOT FUCKING BE NASHVILLE.